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Old 08-10-2013, 08:08 AM   #31
JustKip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-Cat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by EYEBALL
How many years do you think it's going to take for Ural to get back what they have put into r&d for these new rigs?


Very true, but it's just the nature of business.
The price is getting to the point, though, that a lot of people will shy away. Getting close to $20,000 for a new Ural-ouch! Most people that would spend that much really don't want to "sort things out". Yes, the quality is way better, but the lower price has been the Ural's saving grace thus far for people wanting to try a sidecar. It will be interesting to see how their sales are in the coming years.

Just my opinion.
I'm thinking I fall into that camp. I like the way Ural drives. It handles curves better than the few other rigs I've driven, and the 2WD and (especially) reverse gear are big bonuses. But at near $20k one can get a new Sportster, Bonneville, or late model GS and add a CSM or DMC chair. Ural quality seems to have come a long way, with the new alternator, clutch, brakes, gears...long list of upgrades.

I've been on the fence for a long time, waiting for the reports of catastrophic failures to die out. I have an '07 R12GS, and the final drive and EWS ring have never failed me. But it would be foolish to say that there were never any issues with those things. The same applies to Urals; there ARE fresh reports of engine failures, and numerous reports of output shaft seal (and other) leaks. When was the last time you heard of an engine failure on a Bonneville or Sportster?

For MY $20k, I'll be hacking my existing GS, or getting a Bonneville or Sportster. That might not be as much fun, but I'll be a lot more confident on out of town trips. As for wrenching skills; over the last 40+ years I've has 3 Willys, 8-10 Fords and Mercurys, and 3 air cooled VWs. Wrenching ain't no vacation to me. I recognize that it IS a hobby for many, but to me it's just a necessary evil. I can do whatever I need to, but I'm not seeking opportunities.
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Old 08-10-2013, 09:48 AM   #32
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Going by current prices, the 2014 Ural's will be $12k to $16k,
Sportsters are $8k to $12k, Bonnevilles $8k to $10k + $6k to $12k+ for the sidecar depending on options and who does install.

Prices of everything is going up, I remember paying $4k for a new 883............

All brands have failures, and adding a sidecar to a bike not intended to haul one will increase the odds, either way its playing odds, there are no guarantees, that's why warranties are universal.
It makes a lot more sense to get what you actually want, than to settle because of "what if's".


83,000 + km on my 07 Patrol and still going..............
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Old 08-10-2013, 10:13 AM   #33
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Good points, and the Ural IS an incredibly FUN machine!
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Old 08-11-2013, 09:05 PM   #34
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I think this is great news. Fuel delivery and braking were two of the things I would have loved to improve on my Ural.

This just means I will definitely be getting another one in the future, and be exclusively shopping for a post 2014 model.
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Old 08-12-2013, 01:09 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by JustKip View Post
But at near $20k one can get a new Sportster, Bonneville, or late model GS and add a CSM or DMC chair.

What does a good, late model GS pull over your side of the orb?

Speaking from over here, I'd be very surprised if one could get a good late model GS and do everything that is needed to add the outfit, plus the extra stuff that makes it far more managable, for $20k.

Maybe the used bike prices are very low in the USA? Either that of CSM / DMC work for peanuts?

S'pose another other question is, how much of the work is a prospective owner likely to do themselves? The whole thing is very subjective.
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Old 08-12-2013, 04:08 PM   #36
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Maybe it must be ridden off road Just kidding

In all seriousness, I can't wait for the 2014. I'll ride down to Heindl Eng. to look at them Wonder what the color schemes are going to be (apparently not camo). I liked the special addition OD green one (Taija?) and the tan one (Sahara). Those should be standard color options IMO.
Ural has a program to custom paint, or powdercoat your Ural. Your dealer can help you get the color you like. We have a Patrol that we ordered as our demo unit that is powdercoated flat white, fairing included. We should have gone for the all blacked out motor too...
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Old 08-12-2013, 05:23 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by tripodtiger View Post
What does a good, late model GS pull over your side of the orb?

Speaking from over here, I'd be very surprised if one could get a good late model GS and do everything that is needed to add the outfit, plus the extra stuff that makes it far more managable, for $20k.

Maybe the used bike prices are very low in the USA? Either that of CSM / DMC work for peanuts?

S'pose another other question is, how much of the work is a prospective owner likely to do themselves? The whole thing is very subjective.
This is a very fair line of questioning. Hope I can do it justice.

As you said, it's all subjective, but I'll use my "older" '07 GS as an example. It's 6 years old and has 30k miles on it. It's got brand new Yacugar suspension, Micatech luggage, spoked wheels and new tires, and a few inexpensive farkles. It's worth about $9500 here in Cali, which is about the highest market in the US. 4 years newer would go for $13-14k. Having Calude or jay install one of their excellent rigs would cost $7500+ and up.
Using MY bike you could have DMC or CSM spend $10.5k, which gets you well beyond the basic tub, and come in at $20k.

Using a 4-5 year old Bonneville or 883 Sportster would knock $4-5k off that and with a base model rig from the 2 best known builders it would come in under $13k...for something that runs better on highways, but no reverse gear.

Or maybe I'm FOS
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Old 08-12-2013, 05:39 PM   #38
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When I was in Europe this past spring, a European dealer told me that sales totals in Europe were close to those in the USA and that EU is requiring the changes such as disk brakes and EFI be made. He even mentioned ABS being required in Europe. At least we won't have to deal with that change.

I would rather see the changes than see a diminished IMZ due to only being able to sell in the USA. It's a global market out there and they are adapting. This can only be good.
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Old 08-12-2013, 05:56 PM   #39
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upgrades

The biggest improvement they could make is making sure they tell people the realistic cruising and top speed along with a rig load chart. It seems like most Ural ride reports start off with a picture of everything including Aunt Edna strapped to the top of the sidecar because the tub is full as well. Overloading the vehicle and then trying to cruise faster than the splash lube will support adds to to "quality" problems.


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Old 08-14-2013, 12:14 AM   #40
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The biggest improvement they could make is making sure they tell people the realistic cruising and top speed along with a rig load chart. It seems like most Ural ride reports start off with a picture of everything including Aunt Edna strapped to the top of the sidecar because the tub is full as well. Overloading the vehicle and then trying to cruise faster than the splash lube will support adds to to "quality" problems.


Wait wait wait.......

You are telling me, I can't cruise my Ural at 75mph with a loaded tub? Shit that explains a lot. I thought this was a race bike. These fuckers will pay for their lies!
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Old 08-14-2013, 06:24 PM   #41
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Well....

I have to disagree with the "owners don't know what they are doing" line. Bad heat treated pushrods, bad main bearing eating itself at 3k miles... The failures I know of are quality related.

That being said, they are really working hard to fix the bikes that go belly up. No hassle, way over the top (for me anyhow). I just picked up an 04 1150GS, 50k miles with Jesse/Russell/Wilber's for $5k. A Daunless subframe and a Ural tub....could be way cheaper than my Ural, certainly more reliable, just as easy to wrench on (my old 02 GSA had 80k when I traded it in and had NEVER seen a dealer)

After all the misery my Ural has given me, would I do it? (And I've spent many hours looking at my GS thinking about it)
No.
I love the Ural.. " she beats me because she loves me"

They'll still sell bikes at $18k
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:11 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by FLYING EYEBALL View Post
Are they supposed to do it for free?

How many years do you think it's going to take for Ural to get back what they have put into r&d for these new rigs?
What R&D?!?!?
Everything on the Ural that's "new" is COTS (commercial off-the-shelf).

Denso alternator from Japan
Paioli forks from Italy
Brembo brakes from...not sure where, but not Russia
Herzog gears from Germany
Switchgear from Japan
Keihin or Mikuni carbs from Japan
Ducati ignition from Italy
Sachs or some kinda Non-Russo shocks

Most of this stuff is plug-n-play. How much you wanna bet that the EFI and all those disc brakes will be something COTS from Japan???
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:44 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by gspell68 View Post
What R&D?!?!?
Everything on the Ural that's "new" is COTS (commercial off-the-shelf).

Denso alternator from Japan
Paioli forks from Italy
Brembo brakes from...not sure where, but not Russia
Herzog gears from Germany
Switchgear from Japan
Keihin or Mikuni carbs from Japan
Ducati ignition from Italy
Koni or some kinda Non-Russo shocks

Most of this stuff is plug-n-play. How much you wanna bet that the EFI and all those disc brakes will be something COTS from Japan???
Yes there are off the shelf components, but major hardware/software components such as the throttle bodies, and mapping have been 100% engineered exclusively for IMZ-Ural. I've seen the "blueprints", folks would be amazed who's doing some of the specialized engineering.

The new airbox, fuel tank, front engine case casting, exhaust, and instrument dash require very expensive new tooling. There are also many other yet to be announced changes requiring new tooling.

Yes the discs and calipers are off thee shelf, but the new hub castings, parking brake units, and mounts are not.

Durable rapid prototypes, machined prototypes, CAD engineering models, dyno time, EPA consulting and compliance testing, all major expenses

Sachs didn't develop the new shocks and clutch for free, The engineering for the new FD gears isn't free, the new ignition mapping isn't free.

And they don't have the benefit of spreading the cost out over many thousands of units,

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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Old 08-15-2013, 06:02 AM   #44
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There are also many other yet to be announced changes requiring new tooling.
Another 5 lb-ft torque?
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Old 08-15-2013, 06:48 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by gspell68 View Post
What R&D?!?!?
Everything on the Ural that's "new" is COTS (commercial off-the-shelf).

Denso alternator from Japan
Paioli forks from Italy
Brembo brakes from...not sure where, but not Russia
Herzog gears from Germany
Switchgear from Japan
Keihin or Mikuni carbs from Japan
Ducati ignition from Italy
Sachs or some kinda Non-Russo shocks

Most of this stuff is plug-n-play. How much you wanna bet that the EFI and all those disc brakes will be something COTS from Japan???

I wish I was a gambler. It's been a couple days since I read the original post, but didn't it state that the EFI (I believe) is produced in Michigan??? I'm going back to check....

edit *** yep, "developed and built in Michigan" is what it says about the EFI.
Brakes could well be Japan though.
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