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Old 08-15-2013, 02:07 PM   #46
Prmurat
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Does anyone know if the fuel pump is in the tank or somewhere else...a weird idea is coming to my pervert mind: I love my 2011 Gobi (and the few farkles I have) ...But I could use 3 discs ... Exchange for a new one with my body/farkles on the new one??
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Old 08-15-2013, 02:16 PM   #47
JustKip
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I've been told, by Windmill IIRC, that there are 2, below the tank and above each throttle body.
I've also heard it's a new tank.
Can't wait!
I'd love to have forrest camo, even if I have to do it myself .
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Old 08-15-2013, 02:23 PM   #48
SilkMoneyLove
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Too much for me

$14k to $18k is too much for me. It makes sense that they are doing financing now though. I don't finance a bike because I don't want to buy more than I can afford to pay. Plenty of people just care about their "monthly" payment. Those people buy a lot of stuff so it makes sense to go after that market by offering financing.

I bet the rigs are a lot nicer in 2014 (start right up, smoother running, stop better...).

I can skid tires on my old 650 with the drum brakes. My tires are old though. With newer tires and newer brakes, I bet the 2014 rigs will stop in the shortest distance ever for a Ural and that is a good thing.

The other good thing is that people will buy the 2014s and decide a Ural isn't for them, so you will be able to pick up used ones for a lot less.
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Old 08-15-2013, 05:48 PM   #49
Schatzman
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I'm on the fence myself. I want one. I can afford it, but I ask myself if I would do a other build and be happy with my Ural as it is right now. A KTM 690 with a hack sounds awesome to me.
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:10 PM   #50
JustKip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prmurat View Post
Does anyone know if the fuel pump is in the tank or somewhere else...
After thinking about this for a few hours at work, I'm going to have to revise my response.

I mentioned 2 fuel pumps under the tank, but that was on the prototype, and possibly only configured that way for testing(?)
With news that there's a new tank, the pump could well be inside.
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Old 08-15-2013, 09:17 PM   #51
SilkMoneyLove
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Makes sense to have the pump inside the tank. Fuel helps keep the pump cool.
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Old 08-15-2013, 09:19 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by gspell68 View Post
What R&D?!?!?
Everything on the Ural that's "new" is COTS (commercial off-the-shelf).

Denso alternator from Japan
Paioli forks from Italy
Brembo brakes from...not sure where, but not Russia
Herzog gears from Germany
Switchgear from Japan
Keihin or Mikuni carbs from Japan
Ducati ignition from Italy
Sachs or some kinda Non-Russo shocks

Most of this stuff is plug-n-play. How much you wanna bet that the EFI and all those disc brakes will be something COTS from Japan???
Just so you better understand what "off-the-shelf" means in real life:

- Denso is standard component, BUT adapter had to be developed, tested, and industrialized by Ural
- Marzocchi (not Paioli) forks are standard, BUT lower tubes had to be redesigned to accommodate Ural specific brake caliper and front fender mounts
- Brembo brakes are standard, BUT the wheel hub, brake rotor adapter and caliper mounts to accommodate it are developed by Ural
- Herzog gears - made by specialized gear manufacturer, BUT developed from the scratch for Ural
- Keihin carbs - "off-the-shelf", BUT the combination of the jets, shims and needle is Ural specific (it even has Ural specific part number)
- Ducati ignition - was initially developed for somebody else, BUT mapping is Ural specific
- Sachs shocks - kind of "off-the-shelf" EXCEPT the springs, caps, upper and lower mounts were developed specifically for Ural.

If you look at Ural closer, you'd be surprised how little really "off-the-shelf" parts - except some bearings (although not all of them), seals and fasteners - are used on these bikes.

Ilya
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Old 08-15-2013, 11:28 PM   #53
windmill OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustKip View Post
I've been told, by Windmill IIRC, that there are 2, below the tank and above each throttle body.
I've also heard it's a new tank.
Can't wait!
I'd love to have forrest camo, even if I have to do it myself .
I may have expressed myself poorly.
The fuel pumps are in the tank, the tank itself is the same, but reconfigured with new mounts and pump mounting points

I normally don't post my personal "spy" photos, but picturers have been posted by others elsewhere and the rig was viewed and photographed publicly at the Blackdog rally.
One fuel pump can be seen here, and an early prototype of the new airbox.

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Old 08-16-2013, 11:22 PM   #54
gspell68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunnyboy View Post
Just so you better understand what "off-the-shelf" means in real life:

- Denso is standard component, BUT adapter had to be developed, tested, and industrialized by Ural
- Marzocchi (not Paioli) forks are standard, BUT lower tubes had to be redesigned to accommodate Ural specific brake caliper and front fender mounts
- Brembo brakes are standard, BUT the wheel hub, brake rotor adapter and caliper mounts to accommodate it are developed by Ural
- Herzog gears - made by specialized gear manufacturer, BUT developed from the scratch for Ural
- Keihin carbs - "off-the-shelf", BUT the combination of the jets, shims and needle is Ural specific (it even has Ural specific part number)
- Ducati ignition - was initially developed for somebody else, BUT mapping is Ural specific
- Sachs shocks - kind of "off-the-shelf" EXCEPT the springs, caps, upper and lower mounts were developed specifically for Ural.

If you look at Ural closer, you'd be surprised how little really "off-the-shelf" parts - except some bearings (although not all of them), seals and fasteners - are used on these bikes.

Ilya
True, but they're not "from the drawing board" elements. They seem more like "tweaks".
In fact, many are improvements that many folks have done in their garages over the years, specifically the Denso adapter that I understand Ural copied from a Ural owner, electronic ignition, carb variations, changing out shock internals, many Japanese forks with disc brake options are direct swaps to the Ural, etc...
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Old 08-17-2013, 07:54 AM   #55
JustKip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gspell68 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunnyboy View Post
Just so you better understand what "off-the-shelf" means in real life:

- Denso is standard component, BUT adapter had to be developed, tested, and industrialized by Ural
- Marzocchi (not Paioli) forks are standard, BUT lower tubes had to be redesigned to accommodate Ural specific brake caliper and front fender mounts
- Brembo brakes are standard, BUT the wheel hub, brake rotor adapter and caliper mounts to accommodate it are developed by Ural
- Herzog gears - made by specialized gear manufacturer, BUT developed from the scratch for Ural
- Keihin carbs - "off-the-shelf", BUT the combination of the jets, shims and needle is Ural specific (it even has Ural specific part number)
- Ducati ignition - was initially developed for somebody else, BUT mapping is Ural specific
- Sachs shocks - kind of "off-the-shelf" EXCEPT the springs, caps, upper and lower mounts were developed specifically for Ural.

If you look at Ural closer, you'd be surprised how little really "off-the-shelf" parts - except some bearings (although not all of them), seals and fasteners - are used on these bikes.

Ilya

True, but they're not "from the drawing board" elements. They seem more like "tweaks".
In fact, many are improvements that many folks have done in their garages over the years, specifically the Denso adapter that I understand Ural copied from a Ural owner, electronic ignition, carb variations, changing out shock internals, many Japanese forks with disc brake options are direct swaps to the Ural, etc...
You know what would be REALLY impressive?

An "off the shelf" R100 engine transplant!

That's another garage build I've seen over on Soviet Steeds. Pretty simple and straight forward transplant. With the improvements to the transmission and FD in recent years, the drive train should easily handle the power increase.
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Old 08-17-2013, 08:47 AM   #56
DavePave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkMoneyLove View Post
$14k to $18k is too much for me. It makes sense that they are doing financing now though. I don't finance a bike because I don't want to buy more than I can afford to pay. Plenty of people just care about their "monthly" payment. Those people buy a lot of stuff so it makes sense to go after that market by offering financing.

I bet the rigs are a lot nicer in 2014 (start right up, smoother running, stop better...).

I can skid tires on my old 650 with the drum brakes. My tires are old though. With newer tires and newer brakes, I bet the 2014 rigs will stop in the shortest distance ever for a Ural and that is a good thing.

The other good thing is that people will buy the 2014s and decide a Ural isn't for them, so you will be able to pick up used ones for a lot less.

I agree, I like rich people too. Especially those that buy a LOT of stuff not knowing the value of what they have. The first sailboat I ever bought was worth about 250K and I paid about 45K for it. Had it for about 10 years until a hurricane took it away from me. Still, a VERY good deal given to me by a monied fellow that didn't know the value of what he had.

I've seen Ural GU's and Patrols in the 2010 / 11 year range with as little as 4oo miles going for less than 10K. Think about it this way, that's about 25-30% off the retail price and less than 1% of usefule life gone. Why would I pay full retail? And I can generally still get the extended 1 year warranty for $750 on a 2011.

I'd buy used for sure.

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Old 08-17-2013, 08:52 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustKip View Post
You know what would be REALLY impressive?

An "off the shelf" R100 engine transplant!

That's another garage build I've seen over on Soviet Steeds. Pretty simple and straight forward transplant. With the improvements to the transmission and FD in recent years, the drive train should easily handle the power increase.

Personally, I see nothing but good can come from using off the shelf or "Proven" Parts. That makes parts easier to source, when you do need them, and it also means the parts have been tested and proven in other vehicles & applications.

I don't see off the shelf as a negative in any form. Unless one wants to award points for originality - which would likely mean less proven and less reliable.

I think that was Henry Ford's largest selling point.
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Old 08-17-2013, 09:14 AM   #58
JustKip
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Originally Posted by DavePave View Post
Personally, I see nothing but good can come from using off the shelf or "Proven" Parts. That makes parts easier to source, when you do need them, and it also means the parts have been tested and proven in other vehicles & applications.

I don't see off the shelf as a negative in any form. Unless one wants to award points for originality - which would likely mean less proven and less reliable.

I think that was Henry Ford's largest selling point.
Agreed! My '53 Willys had a Buick V6 which, thru the use of an adapter plate, became one of the stock engines for Jeeps in the '60s(Buick V8's too). My '50 had a Ford 260 V8, then a 289. Kaiser didn't have to design and build engines to keep up with the market, although their straight six was still being used well into the '60s.

I wonder how many Ural buyers would pay an extra $1500 for an engine upgrade? I would, especially as a package with a bigger fuel tank too. Throw in a 5 speed "granny gear" trans or 2 speed transfer case...
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Old 08-17-2013, 10:00 AM   #59
DavePave
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Originally Posted by JustKip View Post
Agreed! My '53 Willys had a Buick V6 which, thru the use of an adapter plate, became one of the stock engines for Jeeps in the '60s(Buick V8's too). My '50 had a Ford 260 V8, then a 289. Kaiser didn't have to design and build engines to keep up with the market, although their straight six was still being used well into the '60s.

I wonder how many Ural buyers would pay an extra $1500 for an engine upgrade? I would, especially as a package with a bigger fuel tank too. Throw in a 5 speed "granny gear" trans or 2 speed transfer case...

All good ideas, but Ural HQ needs to be sure of their intended audience and at what price point they will purchase.

I wonder if bmw would license an older engine to Ural and what the cost would be per unit?

I think it best that some of those items are optional. I do like the idea of their "T" model based on simplicity .... then they go all the way up to a GU and other custom models. More options would be nice for the minority that can afford them. But I doubt the general (sidecar) buying public would go for all of them.

I follow your thinking though -a three wheeled swiss army knife - I like it.

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Old 08-18-2013, 10:57 AM   #60
vetsurginc
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What I'd love to see is a disc brake upgrade kit for the older (like 2010 on) bikes. I'm happy with my engine, but a brake upgrade I would do in a minute!
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