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Old 10-14-2013, 07:29 PM   #31
thegraydog
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A tire from 2001....
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:34 PM   #32
lineaway
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Yeah the bike is clean, the tire might just have a leak or two! He did get a great deal.
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Old 10-14-2013, 08:06 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by DerViking View Post
Give us a report in 3 months if you would. I finally have access to a TIG, and would love to know how well it works.
It'll have to be 3 months from now, as I finally got around to putting it back together last night.

My rim was plain junk and I wasn't comfortable using it. I should have just ordered a new rim at the beginning and been done with it but I've been so busy that I haven't thought much about it. Also, there were promises from a shop and a rim that never materialized that contributed to a large portion of the delay.

Anyway, I found a used complete wheel and rotor with a single small crack in the lip that had been welded properly for very small money. It was a 36 spoke Morad with the 6 brake rotor bolt AJP hub (vs. the 32 spoke, 4 bolt hub that my Scorpa had) from an older Sherco. First issue was the axle diameter - the Scorpa had a larger axle. That was easily overcome by using the Scorpa wheel bearings. Next issue was that the hub was 11.5 mm narrower at the bearings than my hub. That required having a new center spacer and brake-side spacer machined (buddy job from a friend). Essentially, I had to take 11.5 mm off of the center spacer and move it to the brake side of the axle. With that done, everything bolted together nicely.

I still intend to lace up a new rim to my original hub, but I'll save that for the winter when I might actually have some time to relax. Right now I'm just looking to sneak in a long overdue ride!
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:55 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lineaway View Post
You have a 2002, beta switched in 2004 to 32. You can tell by the 6 bolt sprocket. I`ve got one with a bad hub, I will check the rim as it might not be any better.

You are right. I just checked the registration and it is a 2002. You know my bike better than I do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lineaway View Post
Yeah the bike is clean, the tire might just have a leak or two! He did get a great deal.
I frequently get compliments on how clean my bike is for an old Beta. I broke the rear brake lever riding from the second section to the third on the first loop Sunday. I got to ride a 2013 Ossa for the rest of the event. At first it seemed the same but I later noticed the front end seemed lighter and it seemed to hook up really good. Offered a great price on the Ossa but.....it did not get me from novice to intermediate. I still could not clean the off camber uphill turn that I could not clean on my Beta (except when we were playing). The Ossa is a great bike but I am still really happy with the Beta.

This is the rear rim:
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Old 10-16-2013, 08:06 PM   #35
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FYI I have gotten rid of slow leaks on the rubber band-style tubeless rims by removing the band, cleaning rim and band well with a pressure washer. I then check and true my rims while the rubber band is off. I wire brush clean the almost for-sure corroded spoke nipples, then seal them from water by spraying the rim and nipple butts with clear spray lacquer, which is impervious to the following step:

I apply a thin bead of Clear Silicone 1 around the rim at the edge of where the sealing band goes. I carefully put the band back in aligning the valve hole, then run my finger all around to smooth the silicone. Thereafter I replace the air valve sealing it too with Silicone 1. (Don't over tighten it! Uncured silicone really lowers the friction coefficient and you can 'squoze' out the rubber band).

This method produces absolute sealing and zero leaks... at that interface anyway.
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Old 10-16-2013, 08:37 PM   #36
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As engineer and welder, some hopefully helpful (or at least academic) musings.

Never have had to weld-repair a rim before. But why not? A weld is better than a crack!

I don't know what the alloy used in typical rim extrusions. Also don't know if after extruding a straight section, rolling them into a circle, welding the joint, grinding the weld, and anodizing if there is a heat treat step before anodizing. Given how pliable rims are during truing, they may not be heat treated by solid solution heat treating (T4) or solid solution heat treated and artificial age hardening (T6), but rather just in the annealed state.

If rims are generally heat treated, the weld regions will go above 900 degrees F and the solution alloying elements will go back into solution. The region of weld and near the weld will soften. But that may not be bad as perhaps a problem with these particular Morad might have been in the heat treat, causing edge cracks to nucleate with the cyclic stresses of roll loading.

Welding will create a heat-affected zone (HAZ), a sort of metallurgical gradient from rim to weld to rim. Again, that's better than a crack, but I'd take a gander at weld repaired areas every now and again to see if any cracks are developing in the HAZ.

Given a choice I'd replace the rim or wheel. I see from your photos your spoke nipples have corrosion spots, so it is possible your nipples are frozen (even if it is not yet winter) You may have to replace the spokes and nipples too to do a rim swap. Well, maybe not, as I recently trued a pretty corroded set of nipples by giving them a drop of oil a day before, inside the rim nipple butt ends and at the nipple-spoke thread interface.
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Old 10-17-2013, 06:54 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motobene View Post
FYI I have gotten rid of slow leaks on the rubber band-style tubeless rims by removing the band, cleaning rim and band well with a pressure washer. I then check and true my rims while the rubber band is off. I wire brush clean the almost for-sure corroded spoke nipples, then seal them from water by spraying the rim and nipple butts with clear spray lacquer, which is impervious to the following step:

I apply a thin bead of Clear Silicone 1 around the rim at the edge of where the sealing band goes. I carefully put the band back in aligning the valve hole, then run my finger all around to smooth the silicone. Thereafter I replace the air valve sealing it too with Silicone 1. (Don't over tighten it! Uncured silicone really lowers the friction coefficient and you can 'squoze' out the rubber band).

This method produces absolute sealing and zero leaks... at that interface anyway.

I am planning on dumping the big rubber band for "liquid tape". It worked out well on my DR650 http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...ostcount=75654 for over 1500 miles of 70+ MPH (indicated) road and a lot of off road riding.


Quote:
Originally Posted by motobene View Post
As engineer and welder, some hopefully helpful (or at least academic) musings.

Never have had to weld-repair a rim before. But why not? A weld is better than a crack!

I don't know what the alloy used in typical rim extrusions. Also don't know if after extruding a straight section, rolling them into a circle, welding the joint, grinding the weld, and anodizing if there is a heat treat step before anodizing. Given how pliable rims are during truing, they may not be heat treated by solid solution heat treating (T4) or solid solution heat treated and artificial age hardening (T6), but rather just in the annealed state.

If rims are generally heat treated, the weld regions will go above 900 degrees F and the solution alloying elements will go back into solution. The region of weld and near the weld will soften. But that may not be bad as perhaps a problem with these particular Morad might have been in the heat treat, causing edge cracks to nucleate with the cyclic stresses of roll loading.

Welding will create a heat-affected zone (HAZ), a sort of metallurgical gradient from rim to weld to rim. Again, that's better than a crack, but I'd take a gander at weld repaired areas every now and again to see if any cracks are developing in the HAZ.

Given a choice I'd replace the rim or wheel. I see from your photos your spoke nipples have corrosion spots, so it is possible your nipples are frozen (even if it is not yet winter) You may have to replace the spokes and nipples too to do a rim swap. Well, maybe not, as I recently trued a pretty corroded set of nipples by giving them a drop of oil a day before, inside the rim nipple butt ends and at the nipple-spoke thread interface.
I should be getting the welded up rim back today. One source has a new, bare rim for $245 so I will see how long the repaired one can last. I'll post pics of the fix and report how it holds up. I am thinking there is a new rim sometime in the future. I have found that Jagermeister also helps prevent frozen nipples.
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Old 10-21-2013, 09:12 AM   #38
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I got my repaired (welded) rim back and it turned out great. If I polished it out a bit to match the rest of the rim you would never know it was cracked. Much smoother than it looks.


Working on sealing the nipples with liquid tape and losing the rubber sealing strip. I'll get a test ride in this week and a real ride Sunday to see how it is holding up.
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Old 10-21-2013, 09:20 AM   #39
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Looks good - let us know how the liquid tape works out long term.
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Old 10-21-2013, 11:35 AM   #40
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Looks good - let us know how the liquid tape works out long term.
I put over 1500 miles on my DR650 and not a problem. I am sure it will be fine for a trials bike. I'll post pics in a separate thread.
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Old 10-21-2013, 11:56 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by SCExpat View Post
I put over 1500 miles on my DR650 and not a problem. I am sure it will be fine for a trials bike. I'll post pics in a separate thread.
Sounds good - just looking for more info on it. How easy is it to remove?
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Old 10-21-2013, 12:16 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by SCExpat View Post

Sorry, my techno-post was probably TMI
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Old 11-05-2013, 05:26 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motobene View Post
Sorry, my techno-post was probably TMI
Yea.....your "engineer" is showing. Great info for the more technical types but most of it went through the less dense space between my ears.


2 rides on the welded rim and so far no problems. The place I took it to has welded rims before so they did have some experience. I'll try to remember and make a follow up post in 6 months or so and hopefully it is still working good. I am a 240# novice/amateur so it takes a pounding from my weight and not from hitting stuff hard like more advanced riders would give it.
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Old 11-05-2013, 05:57 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by SCExpat View Post
I put over 1500 miles on my DR650 and not a problem. I am sure it will be fine for a trials bike. I'll post pics in a separate thread.
What tire and rim did you use on the DR? Your Trials bike rim is designed for tubeless tires, a stock DR rim is not. A flat on the DR could be dangerous as the tire could very quickly become unseated on the rim.

Also I would put the rubber band over the sealed nipples so that the tire bead can't damage the plastic seal during tire mounting.
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Old 11-06-2013, 08:17 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamotovita View Post
What tire and rim did you use on the DR? Your Trials bike rim is designed for tubeless tires, a stock DR rim is not. A flat on the DR could be dangerous as the tire could very quickly become unseated on the rim.

Also I would put the rubber band over the sealed nipples so that the tire bead can't damage the plastic seal during tire mounting.
Stock DR rims with TKC-80's. Worked fine for my. YMMV. Too much of a PITA to remove the wheel and tube just to fix a flat. Well worth the risk, if any IMHO.
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