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Old 03-05-2014, 08:56 PM   #166
Lucky 7 OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MZRider View Post
Two things jump out at me in this photo:
1) did you apply sealer to the two bottom bolts of the rear main bearing flange? Those two holes go the whole way through to the inside and are below oil level. They will definitely leak if not sealed.
2) I would have sealed the cam plug with JB Weld. Not as much chance of leaking as #1, but better to be safe than sorry.

Got #1 covered, forgot to mention that.

For the cam plug, what fails in there? Is that a soldered plug, or is it just friction? It showed no signs of leakage before, but if it could be a problem, I could just yank the clutch again. I already pulled it and reinstalled once. One more won't hurt anything.

As for rebuilding the engine again, I think I shall hold off. After a call to the honda dealership, some soul-searching, and a good cry, I decided it would be fine. The honda wrench said they use it on new parts in old engines and it's impossible to ignore the fact that it's Pete Roper's preferred assembly paste. The man has rebuilt enough engines that I'm certain any problems would have presented themselves.

Perhaps next time I'd just go with motor oil, but for now I'm going to leave it. After all, it only needs to do it's job for a few minutes before the oil gets there, and once it comes up to temp the moly will melt out and be gone with the first oil change.

Of course, this is absolutely not meant to sound ungrateful. Part of the reason I'm posting up here is for all of your advice and opinions, so I thank you for them. It's my judgement call, but of course I still hope that all goes well and nobody owes me an 'I told you so' down the line...

Next up, I'll be trying not to screw up the heads before I move on to trying not to screw up the tranny.
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Old 03-05-2014, 09:40 PM   #167
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Nice detail in this rebuild story. I love to see these old bikes lovingly restored to their former glory. I wouldn't make any judgments on the comments concerning your use of moly paste other than to say that Pete Roper probably has seen the insides of more Guzzis than just about any man on the planet. His opinions are not to be taken lightly.
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Old 03-06-2014, 06:53 AM   #168
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It'll be fine.



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Old 03-06-2014, 08:21 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by Lucky 7 View Post
Got #1 covered, forgot to mention that.

For the cam plug, what fails in there? Is that a soldered plug, or is it just friction? It showed no signs of leakage before, but if it could be a problem, I could just yank the clutch again. I already pulled it and reinstalled once. One more won't hurt anything.
Not soldered in, just inserted and punched to expand it, sort of like a freeze plug in a Chevy V8. They do leak. Will it be that much? No, but I find any leakage from a newly rebuilt engine aggravating and unacceptable.

In my experience, engine oil is rarely what fouls the clutch, it's gear lube from the transmission. Engine oil just leaks down the back of the crankcase and out the weephole or is thrown away from the clutch by the spinning flywheel.

Could someone link me to Pete Roper's rebuild article? I'm finding the engine teardown articles and that's all.
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MZRider screwed with this post 03-06-2014 at 11:00 AM
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Old 03-06-2014, 08:34 AM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky 7 View Post
Got #1 covered, forgot to mention that.

For the cam plug, what fails in there? Is that a soldered plug, or is it just friction? It showed no signs of leakage before, but if it could be a problem, I could just yank the clutch again. I already pulled it and reinstalled once. One more won't hurt anything.

As for rebuilding the engine again, I think I shall hold off. After a call to the honda dealership, some soul-searching, and a good cry, I decided it would be fine. The honda wrench said they use it on new parts in old engines and it's impossible to ignore the fact that it's Pete Roper's preferred assembly paste. The man has rebuilt enough engines that I'm certain any problems would have presented themselves.

Perhaps next time I'd just go with motor oil, but for now I'm going to leave it. After all, it only needs to do it's job for a few minutes before the oil gets there, and once it comes up to temp the moly will melt out and be gone with the first oil change.

Of course, this is absolutely not meant to sound ungrateful. Part of the reason I'm posting up here is for all of your advice and opinions, so I thank you for them. It's my judgement call, but of course I still hope that all goes well and nobody owes me an 'I told you so' down the line...

Next up, I'll be trying not to screw up the heads before I move on to trying not to screw up the tranny.
Makes enough sense for me! Carry on
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Old 03-07-2014, 08:48 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by blaine.hale View Post
That molly paste is incredibly concerning on the surfaces you used it on. I'd further specify that molly paste goes in non-oiled spaces like a spline or an axle. The "sliding" places may be a bit misleading. I can only see that gunking up and clogging oil passages when oil is introduced to the engine. I've always and forever just put oil on things like the crank and con rods etc because, well, that's where oil goes when it runs. Mixing lubricants ain't always the best.
I hope, for your sake, it turns out alright.
After a little research, it seems the Penrite assembly lube that Pete Roper uses is very similar to what I use:

http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/prod...aspx?id=SL3331

Despite the description as a "Black semi-solid to solid grease", it's actually more of a thick liquid, about the consistency of toothpaste.

I definitely would not have used a moly paste as an assembly lube.
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Old 03-07-2014, 09:13 AM   #172
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Alright here's the breakdown of Honda Moly 60




It's not 60% molybdenum, it seems to be a lithium/moly grease. That certainly matches the consistency of it...it really feels like a grease and seems to handle itself like a grease. From what I can tell, it doesn't seem all that different than the Penrite recommended by Pete.

I threw some hot oil on a dab of it last night and it melted immediately and just made for a slightly darker oil, all traces of the original dab gone. Considering its temp ratings, it should be fine for run in until oil comes along. Once it heats up, the moly will be gone and I'll change the oil.

Here's where I shrug my shoulders and say, 'Fuck it'. I'll make sure to do the pre-prime measures to ensure quick delivery of oil, but otherwise I'm not going to worry about it. Mental note for next time, I guess.
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Old 03-07-2014, 09:24 AM   #173
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Alright, time to get the heads sealed up. Orings go on:

 photo IMG_0618_zpsba8ad582.jpg


Then the rocker mounts got torqued up and the rockers went in:

 photo IMG_0619_zps5bf0c3ae.jpg


Setting valve clearance. Grampa Mo, you glorious bastard! When my grandfather passed away a few years back, my brother and I ended up with all of his tools. I didn't even know I had a feeler gauge, but there it was in the tool box. Per spec, .006 on the intake and .009 on the exhaust:

 photo IMG_0622_zpse600206c.jpg

 photo IMG_0621_zps8ff35b30.jpg


Then the valve covers get torqued up. I've been trying to use proper torque specs everywhere possible, even on the little guys. I'm paranoid about pulling threads out of the cast aluminum parts, so it's worth the time for my peace of mind.

 photo IMG_0623_zps0c9b9705.jpg


One car garages weren't meant for this type of work!

 photo IMG_0624_zpsa070606d.jpg



This weekend I'll mount up the timing case cover and this thing will be all buttoned up. I may revisit the cam plug at some later date (not sure how I missed that one), but for now I'm going to move on to the tranny.

At some point I'll need to put in another parts order, namely for my header pipes and all the necessary cables. They're all oxidized and trashed, clutch, brake, speedo...all of them need replacing. Getting closer and closer...
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Old 03-07-2014, 10:54 PM   #174
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Quote:
In my experience, engine oil is rarely what fouls the clutch, it's gear lube from the transmission.
Yes, transmission lube! That was the situation with my Ambassador.

This entire Lucky 7 story has been a great read! Thanks
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Old 03-08-2014, 05:53 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by Lucky 7 View Post


Then the valve covers get torqued up. I've been trying to use proper torque specs everywhere possible, even on the little guys. I'm paranoid about pulling threads out of the cast aluminum parts, so it's worth the time for my peace of mind.


Not to ruin your inner peace, but a friend of mine who has a Royal Enfield gave me a call last summer, asking me if I could weld on a new lower shock mount stud on his swing arm. He had wrung it off when installing new shocks. He was pretty upset about it, since he had been trying to be a good boy and used a torque wrench and factory specs. Be careful! I trust my feel for most everything except critical stuff like head bolts, big end bearing caps, etc.

I like your black cylinder barrels. Reminds me of a /2. Also, I can tell you that I've used moly paste on crank journals before and everything was fine. I wouldn't choose to do it again, but I'm with you on not tearing it down again. Thanks for this thread. Looks great!
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Old 03-08-2014, 07:37 AM   #176
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Is there a paint code for that white, Lucky? I have an old GE refrigerator from the 1950's that I want to use it on.

Thanks.

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Old 03-08-2014, 04:14 PM   #177
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Laugh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeahoo Whoyah View Post
Yes, transmission lube! That was the situation with my Ambassador.

This entire Lucky 7 story has been a great read! Thanks
Agreed. Engine oil will generally leak down the engine case. Even if it does get to the flywheel, it will be on the back side and will just fling off while the engine is running.

Transmission oil is a different story. A leaking input shaft seal will let oil wick up the input shaft, where it will get to the clutch and fling out into the plates, where it causes all of the problems.

I would just pay attention and make sure the transmission input shaft seal is done right. Based on your write-up so far, it looks like you would probably do that anyway.

Thanks for this thread! Your bike looks great!
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Old 03-09-2014, 07:09 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by Louis Wambsganss View Post
Agreed. Engine oil will generally leak down the engine case. Even if it does get to the flywheel, it will be on the back side and will just fling off while the engine is running.

Transmission oil is a different story. A leaking input shaft seal will let oil wick up the input shaft, where it will get to the clutch and fling out into the plates, where it causes all of the problems.

I would just pay attention and make sure the transmission input shaft seal is done right. Based on your write-up so far, it looks like you would probably do that anyway.

Thanks for this thread! Your bike looks great!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeahoo Whoyah View Post
Yes, transmission lube! That was the situation with my Ambassador.

This entire Lucky 7 story has been a great read! Thanks

Hey thanks for reading.

Yep, I'm certain it was coming in from both sides...clutch fouling primarily from the tranny. I will say that engine oil was pouring out of the breather pipes and down into the bell housing. The tranny was leaking as well and I can see leak trails in and around the clutch spline. After my 30 minute ride, there were pools of various oils under the bike. Oh joy....

In addition to all new seals and gaskets in the tranny, MZRider was nice enough to send me orings for the clutch push rod, apparently it's a common area for leaks too. I guess a stack of o-rings on the rod eliminates the problem. All told, I'm hoping to get both sides of the clutch sealed up tight and keep that thing nice and dry for the foreseeable future. (crossing fingers now)

Lucky 7 screwed with this post 03-09-2014 at 07:19 PM
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Old 03-09-2014, 07:16 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by JonnyCash View Post
Not to ruin your inner peace, but a friend of mine who has a Royal Enfield gave me a call last summer, asking me if I could weld on a new lower shock mount stud on his swing arm. He had wrung it off when installing new shocks. He was pretty upset about it, since he had been trying to be a good boy and used a torque wrench and factory specs. Be careful! I trust my feel for most everything except critical stuff like head bolts, big end bearing caps, etc.

I like your black cylinder barrels. Reminds me of a /2. Also, I can tell you that I've used moly paste on crank journals before and everything was fine. I wouldn't choose to do it again, but I'm with you on not tearing it down again. Thanks for this thread. Looks great!

Eeesh, that sucks. Hopefully it all came back together for him. I generally trust my feel as well, but I know that soft cast aluminum can come loose a lot quicker than I'm used to. What I've been doing is going by feel to where I'm comfortable with it, then checking the torque to see where I'm at. Usually, I'm not too far off so I just go the last little bit with the torque wrench. Funny, I never use a torque wrench at the bike shop, but on my engine I feel like it's a good idea. I'll definitely be careful though, thanks for the heads up.

And thanks for the admittance of moly paste usage. It's nice to know I'm not steaming toward utter destruction. That makes me feel better.
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Old 03-09-2014, 07:29 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by Twotaildog View Post
Is there a paint code for that white, Lucky? I have an old GE refrigerator from the 1950's that I want to use it on.

Thanks.

.

I just looked around to see what I could find and came up with two possibilities. From what I can tell, the Audi factory paint code for Glacier White Pearl is LS9R, but a little more searching yielded some touch up kits listed with LS9R/2Y. I'm not sure what the difference is, except for the LS9R/2Y is listed specifically for an Allroad, even though it's still called Glacier White Pearl. I'm guessing it's the same paint.

I really wanted to get that paint right, but I didn't really know the best way to actually pick it, since there isn't really a good place to go see all the options at once. I knew I wanted a light pearl/metallic in white, but beyond that I didn't know where to start. It's sort of embarrassing, but eventually I just found myself wandering around parking lots looking at white cars. I liked the Cadillac white pearl, but it was a bit too creamy. Some of the others I saw felt too metallic or trended toward silver. On total happenstance, a customer came into the bike shop driving a new white Audi and I ran out to take a look. Turns out it was just what I was looking for. Pure white with understated pearl. I love it when something just falls in your lap like that.
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