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Old 10-11-2013, 10:46 AM   #76
Lucky 7 OP
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Yeah...I guess this is what happens when I get bored and have Photoshop open. Now, if only I could find the 'monetized viral image' button, I'd be all set.
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Old 10-11-2013, 05:05 PM   #77
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The evenings grow dim and the engine beckons! After plenty of studying, I decided to pull the top end and see what sort of dent I can expect in my bank account. I'm planning on jugs and pistons, but all else is a question mark for me.

Before I started, I thought it'd be fun to throw the front wheel on the frame. Love it!

 photo IMG_0417_zps8235ee17.jpg


You can see my big score of the weekend...a work platform. Sweet! I was thinking of building something similar out of lumber, but a friend saved me the trouble by giving this to me. He was sick of having it in his garage and I needed one. Perfect timing.


Okay, enough playing around. Back to the engine. First the valve rockers must go:

 photo IMG_0420_zps0beeb34e.jpg


Then the rocker mount. These bolts took a real steroid jerk to loosen up. I think my grunts and 'Oh YEAH!' s aroused some looks from passerbys on the sidewalk. Finally all the bastards cracked:

 photo IMG_0426_zpsef6e237b.jpg


Then the remaining two head bolts needed to come out. The lower was easy, but the sleeve bolt took some work. Finally it creaked loose with the help of a few different tools:

 photo IMG_0428_zps936e6371.jpg


Now the head pops right off, right? Just a quick pull, says the internet. Much more grunting and sweating ensues:

 photo IMG_0427_zps688de058.jpg


Finally I got it off and had a piston to look at. Just like that.

 photo IMG_0429_zpsd3086f31.jpg


Again I'd read that a quick pull would do it. Again, much grunting and sweating was required. It was especially hard to get them started since I didn't want to get a screwdriver anywhere near my gasket surfaces or the fins. Thankfully I've been wrestling grizzly bears in preparation to build stamina. In comparison, heads and gaskets are easy.

Okay, top end officially removed and cataloged.

 photo IMG_0444_zps3f07ed96.jpg


Now to check out these chrome bores I've spent years reading about. A quick magnet check confirms chrome bore. The left side actually looks pretty good to me:

 photo IMG_0434_zpsf5f5fb14.jpg


The right side, however, seems to be showing off some of that flaking I've heard so much about.

 photo IMG_0443_zps46e58729.jpg


Oh well. Gilardoni is such a cool name, it'd be a shame NOT to install them, right? I'm thinking I'll get the rest out, do my tolerance checks, then order up jugs and whatever else is outside of spec.

Now I hear tell that the sump is supposed to come off so I can get to the con rods? Roger that.

 photo IMG_0447_zps6aebdd7c.jpg


Next up I'll pull the pistons and get the crank and cam out of there. Then the calipers will get a workout and we'll see where we're at.
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Old 10-11-2013, 09:20 PM   #78
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Nice
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:34 AM   #79
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I found the 50 piece tap and die set from Sears to be an indispensible addition to my toolbox. Most of the nuts and bolts had some sort of schmutz and corrosion, and were MUCH happier going back together after a little chase...

I'll second that. My Guzzi build required almost every stud and thread to be chased to get the new fasteners on without binding.

You've got a very cool bike. I can't wait to see it together: she's gonna be beeeaaauuutiful!
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:59 AM   #80
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Okay, back at it. I pulled the oil pump, pistons/con rods, and the starter ring gear.




The con rods took a bit of jimmying, but came out fairly easily. I'll have to post pictures of them later, but the half bearings look to be in perfect condition. I may replace them just because, but I'm not sure that it's all that necessary. I'll throw calipers on them to be sure, though.




Then the starter gear comes off:




Yeeeuuuckk!




No wonder my clutch felt like shit. On those initial rides, it never felt like it was fully engaging or disengaging and now I know why. This this was so choked with crap that the plates could barely move. Is this normal for a dry clutch? I've never opened one up before, but it struck me as pretty bad for the overall operation. Also, it looks like there was some oil of some sort on the clutch plates which could have contributed to the sludgy mess in the splines?




There looks to be plenty of shoe left on the clutch plates, but again I'll check my tolerances and replace if necessary. Right now I'm inclined to think that the problem was caused by oil/sludge in the clutch box more than by worn clutch plates, which was my original assumption.

Now I just need to pull the flywheel and get the crank out, which I should be able to work on tomorrow.





Other big news is that I decided on a liquid painter and dropped everything off yesterday. I'll be excited to see the results. The estimate was 30-45 days, so hopefully by early December I'll have some shiny new tins to show off!
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Old 10-22-2013, 09:02 AM   #81
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I found the 50 piece tap and die set from Sears to be an indispensible addition to my toolbox. Most of the nuts and bolts had some sort of schmutz and corrosion, and were MUCH happier going back together after a little chase...

Thanks for the tip, that's a great idea...and one that hadn't occurred to me. Most bolts are getting replaced, but tap and die would help for the big guzzi specific bolts and to clear out the female side of the threads. There's a set from Northern Tool that I think I'll order up.
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Old 10-22-2013, 11:10 AM   #82
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I'd take a real close look at the rear main seal and/or pump cover (if there is one on the back of a Guzzi like there is on a BMW). These are usually the sources of oil leaks that end of contaminating the clutch disk.

IF the clutch disk has been contaminated with oil and/or grease, I'd toss it and get a new one and not look back.

There is alot of crud in that clutch housing - something was definitely not happy there - you might find weak springs or other parts are worn that resulted in so much chewed up material..

Neat project- keep the faith!!
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:52 PM   #83
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I'd take a real close look at the rear main seal and/or pump cover (if there is one on the back of a Guzzi like there is on a BMW). These are usually the sources of oil leaks that end of contaminating the clutch disk.

IF the clutch disk has been contaminated with oil and/or grease, I'd toss it and get a new one and not look back.

There is alot of crud in that clutch housing - something was definitely not happy there - you might find weak springs or other parts are worn that resulted in so much chewed up material..

Neat project- keep the faith!!
The oil pump is on the front, inside of the timing cover. Most likely reason for oily clutch plates is leaky clutch pushrod seals. The original is just a plastic sleeve and really doesn't work all that well.

Some helpful links:
http://thisoldtractor.com/gtbender/m...k_these_things

http://thisoldtractor.com/gtbender/m...k_these_things
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Old 10-23-2013, 09:15 AM   #84
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Thanks for the links, those will be very helpful. This makes a lot of sense to me:

"There is another major source of oil which can get into the bell housing and wreck your clutch that no one ever seems to mention. It's the two holes in the top of the crankcase for the breather tube and oil return line. Any oil that gets on top of the motor from a variety of sources can leak down those holes because no grommet or seal is used there and the metal tubes are much smaller than the holes they go through. Also, the short connecting rubber hoses fit over the fittings on the engine breather and the tubing going into the bell housing, so any deterioration of the hoses or loosening of the hose clamps allows a leak there. The tubes are then a direct path for the oil to run into the bell housing."

Both of my lines to the breather were pretty deteriorated, so I'm guessing a lot of oil came in through there. That'll be something to look at or seal on the build back up. Also, the JB Weld on the cam plug is interesting.

Lot's to absorb here. I'm trying to go slow so I can take it all in, but there's a lot to remember here. Lately I've been studying the parts diagram and the rebuild guides with my free time just to combat my overwhelmedness.
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Old 10-23-2013, 10:24 AM   #85
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Oh yeah, I'm sure it's that too. It definitely has a distinctive odor...sort of an odd smell.

I do know that oil was POURING out of the breather feed lines, so I'm inclined to think it was a contributing factor. After my one ride, the top of the tranny was totally pooled with motor oil. Eesh.

So where can I get new pushrod seals? I got the seal, gasket, oring kit from MG Cycle, but those are different seals right?
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Old 10-23-2013, 03:37 PM   #86
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I realize that you're way into this, money wise, but I successfully rescued a gear oil soaked clutch disk by soaking it in gasoline for a few days, and then setting it on fire for a brief period to burn out the oil. Actually, I burned it, smothered it out after 30 sec or so then re-lit it a few times so that I wouldn't overheat it. That was a couple of years ago on my BMW, and it is still working fine. It had been slipping before the burn-out. I'd never do it if I was working o someone else's bike, but on my own, I figured it was worth a try.
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:06 PM   #87
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Brake cleaner works just fine on clutch disks and brake shoes, without the need to set it all on fire
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:16 PM   #88
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Yeah, but i kinda liked the fire part.
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Old 10-23-2013, 05:50 PM   #89
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Oh yeah, I'm sure it's that too. It definitely has a distinctive odor...sort of an odd smell.

I do know that oil was POURING out of the breather feed lines, so I'm inclined to think it was a contributing factor. After my one ride, the top of the tranny was totally pooled with motor oil. Eesh.

So where can I get new pushrod seals? I got the seal, gasket, oring kit from MG Cycle, but those are different seals right?
Yeah, the stock seals are two or maybe three little cone shaped things that go around the pushrod. Lots of people just use o-rings. I think MGcycle has either option available. I did this last winter on my T3, and the funny thing is...... I can't remember which I used! Jeeze I'm only 41, and it's already setting in.
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Old 10-23-2013, 08:55 PM   #90
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I learned the hard way long ago not to skimp on anything in the clutch. I never reuse oil soaked clutch plates. Nothing worse than having to tear a customer's bike half the way back apart because the clutch slips...

MG Cycle and Harper's only sell the cones which were the latest upgrade from Guzzi. I've still had leaks using them, so have been using the o-ring "stack" mentioned in Guzziology. Moto International sells the o-rings or I will send anyone that wants some six of them for FREE. I buy them in bags of 100 from McMaster-Carr.
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