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Old 08-20-2013, 12:58 AM   #31
tokyoklahoma
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Originally Posted by vt1099ace View Post
Because forethought is rarely developed in the most of the human species and most never realize that Newton's laws apply equally to one's personal physics as to the movement of galaxies and planets until they experience it firsthand....and even then, if they survive it rarely retain the lesson.
And Adrenalin is a helluva drug!!!
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Old 08-20-2013, 08:49 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by ThumperStorm View Post
Riding motorcycles is such a RUSH! It gives you such a sense of FREEDOM! It makes you HIGH!

And everyone knows your judgement can be impaired while high. The trick is to find the balance point between fun and safety. Not always easy to do.

You seem quick to judge people doing things you have no experience at, are so sure you can do better.

Right now you drive a marginal bus in heavy traffic. You have no idea how much different it will feel doing it with the power and agility of a motorcycle.

You come off like you have given everything so much thought and yet your first bike is going to be a GS? Good luck with that.
Regarding purchasing a GS right off. I don't like doing things twice. I've been that route so many times in life. Going small or cheap and working up to something else...why spend the money twice? Save the money once, spend it once. The boxer motor made sense coming from building VWs. I'm 6'1" 220ish....I've sat on smaller bikes and they feel..."off". I got some good advice on what to get first...granted it was what I wanted to hear...but oh well. If its too powerful...its only as fast or powerful as your throttle lets it go. My bus has a 2.1 liter EFI motor in it. It puts out over 150hp at the flywheel (not amazing by many standards, but vs the old 40hp...night and day). I drive at 65mph tops. Why? I respect the motor, the car, the time and money I've put into it...I don't want to break it or wreck it. I respect that it takes twice as long to stop and almost always have an escape route. With the gearing in the car...yeah I can blow the doors off a civic at a light....do I no...have I ...no. Abuse of speed and power just leads to broken parts....I've seen transmissions broken in half with combos weaker than mine. I drive within the limits of the vehicle, well within....more importantly I drive within the limits of my checkbook and my insurance card.

Let me get this straight....some people here are advocating breaking the law in the name of fun and in the search for a rush? No thanks.

Yeah, I'm sure its fun to do these things...and I'm sure I would enjoy doing them too. Really though...survival and economy is a bigger pay off in the end than a few seconds at 100mph.

I realized something the other day going down the road thinking about this conversation and attitudes involved. Laws are not only there to control people and keep you safe (maybe), but they also give you a set of guidelines of what you should expect others to be doing also. Like the whole passing on the right gutter thing...that is against the law and as someone who has studied traffic laws and "graduated" (drivers license) I don't necessarily expect someone to break the laws like that and can set a lower priority to that zone and focus on the road ahead. When someone disobeys something like that because they CAN it puts everyone at risk. Another EXTREME example is driving on the right (in the USA). Yes you CAN drive on the left, but no one is expecting that and will probably end up getting you killed. This is a guideline we have come to follow and expect others to follow...thus we plan our driving around that rule. My point is...do what others expect you to do and be where others expect you to be...and I would think your day to day survival rate will increase.

I'm 33. I've gone fast and done silly things. They don't interest me...I like to go places, places you can't get to easily, see things, do things....I like the route more than the drive.

Now all I have to do is practice what I preach, head others advice, and learn from others sillyness.....should be easy enough


there needs to be a new saying, "Drive it like you're still making payments on it"
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:28 AM   #33
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I think your original question as to why certain people ride motorcycles is a little bit naive. People do lots of stuff that many of us would not do, and many of us do stuff that other people would not do.

Some people are smarter than others.

Some people care less than others do.

Some people enjoy risky behavior more than others do.

If you really want to know why people do what they do, go get yourself a degree in psychology. Short of that, just accept the fact that we're all different and move on.
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:33 AM   #34
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My question WAS a bit off. I admit it. I didn't really expect a straight answer.

My main question is, why do some motorcyclist take risks on a bike that they would probably not do in a car.

At the same time...they are, or probably would, be the same asses in lowered civics thinking weaving through rush hour traffic actually gets you somewhere....yeah it does...2 car lengths ahead of me....the guy going the speed limit and staying in his lane.
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:46 AM   #35
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Just to throw in here:

1. I used all your arguments to get a 1150GS within a few months of learning to ride, and it almost put me off of riding completely. I used the same arguments- I'm a big guy, I don't like to buy things twice, I can control how much throttle I give it and on and on and on. And it was a HUGE mistake. The rule I've come to is: this is a sport, and it's supposed to be fun. Maybe you can "handle" a big bike as a first bike, but is it going to be fun? Is it going to make you a better rider? No way.

It's big, it's heavy, it's tall and it's awkward. You're going to be learning an entire set of new skills at once, all while encumbered. It made riding no fun at all- it became a white-knuckle experience.

2. Let's not jump too quickly to judge the squiddoos. They're stupid and reckless and underdressed and untrained, but man alive... a day when your lines and clicking and you can see traffic all around and everything feels right is a great day. It's intoxicating when you really get comfortable in the saddle and realize that you can do everything (brake, accelerate, turn) exponentially faster than the cars around you. It's easy to forget the danger and get caught up in the rush of it all.

Don't go do 100mph in a t-shirt, but don't think they're a different species than us.

OK. Soapbox over.
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:52 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniperx View Post

My main question is, why do some motorcyclist take risks on a bike that they would probably not do in a car.
Because there are a lot of stupid people in this world. Stupid people do a lot of stupid things. It is a lot easier to see them when they are on bikes. Stupid people are less visible when participating in other activities such as abusing alcohol, cheating in school or voting. Those activities are not done in such as way as to draw attention like riding a motorcycle does so it is harder to determine how stupid they are at those times.
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:52 AM   #37
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Thank you DJFLOWE. What you said makes a lot of sense.

I'm kind of committed to the GS at this point. I'll have to make the best of it. I'll keep your feelings in mind the first time it falls over...telling myself...I picked this one...it will get better if I just keep at it. Probably easier said than done.

Sniperx screwed with this post 08-20-2013 at 10:00 AM
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:30 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by ThumperStorm View Post

You come off like you have given everything so much thought and yet your first bike is going to be a GS? Good luck with that.
^^^^^ That was exactly my thought. What size is it? 1200GS, or a smaller one... Most assume the 1200, as I do..

My 2cents:

It all comes down to experience and riding/driving within your limits. If you want to push your limits, fine, but a little bit at a time will get you farther than throwing yourself in the deep end.

I've been riding for years and driving for years. I've learned respect for your vehicle is first and foremost. Once you can learn to operate your vehicle to it's ability, the rest is up to you. It takes a while to become good at anything, and to consider yourself a professional. I'd consider myself a professional rider on the street, but I only have 1k miles on my Tiger 800xc and am fully aware of what I don't know when it comes to dirt. (And that's half the fun!) Learning what you don't know is something that comes with experience and always supersedes what you do know.

If you can push yourself to master your abilities in a relatively safe environment for many years, you will share a much different opinion on your topic. If you ride for many years like a Granny (or typical Harley) rider, you won't get better.

I've gotten very used to driving very fast and can drive like I'm in a video game all day long without much as a breeze from the cars as they go by. I've raced many things with wheels, practice many hobbies that focus your reaction time, information processing and hazard identification, and can easily slide my cars (see below) or drag pegs/knees around corners all day long. But, you have to know that if you can't see around a corner or around a truck or are in the city with many obstacles, then you just can't realistically see everything at every time and should slow down.

That's why I don't commute anymore, go to cities or venture near civilization if I can avoid it. I know this.

I find it easier driving to go faster than traffic because everything is going in one direction. If I slow down, I have no idea what may be coming up behind me if my visibility is limited and a simple twitch of the wheel to avoid someone changing wheels becomes a hard brake and/or wheel/bar movement. Plus, I have a car that can out accelerate and out brake most vehicles, like a motorcycle, but can swerve like a bike can't.

There are people that know how to go fast, and there are people who don't, and do it anyway. It's hard for people that don't have the skills to realize that they can exist.

Take a few classes, go to a gymkhana, go to a track day, off-road class, and then practice practice practice. Good fundamentals paired with experience will elevate you to new places and a renewed love for the sport.

Most people are completely incapable of driving/riding correctly and don't even follow the simple rules, like turn signals and lane changes. So, it's a shame we can't have the autobahn in the US. In Germany, and other EU countries, it's expensive and takes months of advanced driving skills to get a license. That said, they have a lot less accidents and half as many deaths. They also can drive without speed limits in some areas, and 95% of the time there is nobody at all in the left lane, as it's reserved for passing.
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Old 08-20-2013, 11:22 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniperx View Post
My question is....

If you are riding something that has very little between you and the 60mph ground below you..even what is between you won't save you when the 18 wheeler you cut off crushes your abdomen....why would you do things and act in ways you would never do in the security of a car?
That's easy: Because I CAN. And because I GET AWAY WITH IT. If I'd wo by car what I do by bike, I'd crash regularily, because the car wouldn't fit in the spaces I use with my bike. (longer, wider, slower, less flickable)
And when I make mistakes, there's still place to get away with it.

However, 60mph is way too slow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniperx View Post
I just don't get it. And its not a jealousy thing...its a common sense thing.
If it wasn't a jealousy thing, you wouldn't pat yourself on your shoulder for your "common sense".

Quote:
Originally Posted by sphyrnidus View Post
And riding motorcycles is not primarily about top speed, it's about speed in the curvies.
Well, since cars are at least as fast as bikes in the curves, riding is primarily about acceleration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniperx View Post
weaving through rush hour traffic actually gets you somewhere....yeah it does...2 car lengths ahead of me....the guy going the speed limit and staying in his lane.
Try looking more than 10 seconds ahead, the distance gets waaaay longer then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniperx View Post
Let me get this straight....some people here are advocating breaking the law in the name of fun and in the search for a rush? No thanks.

Yeah, I'm sure its fun to do these things...and I'm sure I would enjoy doing them too. Really though...survival and economy is a bigger pay off in the end than a few seconds at 100mph.

I realized something the other day going down the road thinking about this conversation and attitudes involved. Laws are not only there to control people and keep you safe (maybe), but they also give you a set of guidelines of what you should expect others to be doing also. Like the whole passing on the right gutter thing...that is against the law and as someone who has studied traffic laws and "graduated" (drivers license) I don't necessarily expect someone to break the laws like that and can set a lower priority to that zone and focus on the road ahead. When someone disobeys something like that because they CAN it puts everyone at risk. Another EXTREME example is driving on the right (in the USA). Yes you CAN drive on the left, but no one is expecting that and will probably end up getting you killed. This is a guideline we have come to follow and expect others to follow...thus we plan our driving around that rule. My point is...do what others expect you to do and be where others expect you to be...and I would think your day to day survival rate will increase.

Interesting approach. But since laws shouldn't be there to be obeyed but to service, I'm playing better with not expecting what laws tell but what normal persons do.
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:09 PM   #40
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Riding is like a game of Asteroids

Don't get hit.
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:11 PM   #41
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Don't get hit.
A laser cannon would be a nice farkle.
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:38 PM   #42
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Wraith, I don't think you read the whole thing. I've seen people ride/drive offensively only to end up literally 2 car lengths ahead of me at best at the next traffic light. All they did was burn gas and put themselves and other at risk. You're skill/machine may be awesome....but the guy in the Pinto or VW bus may not be...by doing things like "fitting" into holes and what not...you've taken away other peoples safety areas. As skilled as you are...the guy in front of you blows a tire or spills coffee in his lap and slams on his brake....you have very skillfully made yourself into the crumple zone for the car behind you...for what? A couple car lengths? Splitting lanes is different and expected...no argument there. It is also very advantageous. No complaint there either. Its also required in air cooled vehicles....believe me I know...I drive an air cooled vehicle.

You may have the right of way, and all these skills, and this flickable machine but all that does no good with a 2000 pound car on your chest. You shouldn't rely on your skills to get you into trouble, but rather be able to trust them to get you out of trouble should it come to find you.

I guess I'm just not looking for the same things in a motorcycle that some of these replies are looking for. I'm looking for gas mileage, travel, economy (I do my own wrenching), adventure, using the carpool lane, off road, splitting lanes. To me, 75mph should do just fine...with the occassional, tasteful, yahoo moment on the open road. I plan to do some 2 Up adventure also, after skills set in and a good amount of doubles practice. None of these activities, to me, scream out some of the behaviors I have witnessed.

A self inflicted wound that may me think about things a little more. In high school I was big into rollerblading. I did it every day. I thought I was hot shit...and I was pretty good and consistent. One day I took on a hill. I was pacing a car at 35mph. I hit a rock on my right foot, no big deal, lift it up briefly. About that time a crack came up and caught the left skate and crossed it over the right. The whole thing went into a death wobble and down I went...at 35mph on a busy street. I broke my collar bone 3 days before the end of my Freshman year. I had to wear this bra-type brace all summer. It set my water polo career back a year and almost cost me a major tournament. I didn't give up skating, but I also never went that fast again. These were speed skates, not tricks or anything like that. I may never have reached my full potential or advanced my skills beyond that point, but the point I had reached was enough for me and I enjoy what I developed. I don't regret not going further...what would I get...the best rollerblader around? I had no aspirations of olympic skating or anything. It was just fun. If I never reached my peak, I never knew it...nor did I care....nor do I regret it.
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:47 PM   #43
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Something else regarding skills...

I do shooting, nothing big just long range stuff. You practice and what not to improve your skills. With the exception of a few (few in the broad sense), you practice shooting skills to get you OUT of danger. You don't practice them and go looking for a someone in saloon to challenge.

Same could be said for motorcycle skills (advanced ones like knee sliding or others). You wouldn't, necessarily, BE knee sliding in a curve if you weren't breaking rules (don't give me rules are meant to be broken bs) on the street. I wouldn't ever (too early to say with certainty I know) do that on the street...on the track in a semi-controlled environment maybe...but not on oil, water, gravel, shit filled streets. Unnecessary risk in my book. Abuse of skills I would say...in this instance. Theres a time and place to push your skills and theres a time and place to rely on them to keep you alive.
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:50 PM   #44
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I'm sorry your roller blading accident set your water polo career back. I did a nice wheelie on a city street for you this morning.
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:00 PM   #45
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Thanks...felt it all the way over here.... :roll:
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