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Old 08-18-2013, 07:45 PM   #31
Boon Booni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg the pole View Post
Price and reliability.
Oh sure, that knocks the BMW out of the race...
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Old 08-18-2013, 08:26 PM   #32
GrahamD
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Originally Posted by Boon Booni View Post
Oh sure, that knocks the BMW out of the race...
I like the look of the new F800GSA. Pity I have to pay a BMW tax. Knocks it out of the race.

But anyway it'll be years before my very dirt oriented "piggie" wears out.

So I'll see what the new F8 electric looks like in 2030 compared to the Zero's big ADV offerings.
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Old 08-18-2013, 09:29 PM   #33
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I love riding motorcycles, if I had no choice I would ride a Pig if it had wheels!
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Old 08-18-2013, 09:50 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by archeranger View Post
...... Perhaps I am a better rider but I lost him in the twisties. ......Perhaps I have more dirt experience but when I turned up the dirt road, he turned around
I'm guessing if you swapped bikes with that same rider, you still would have lost him and he still would have turned around. Does that say anything about the equipment?
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Old 08-18-2013, 10:13 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by timeOday View Post
I don't get it? Handlebar risers, new seat, pegs, and raising/lowering links are some of the most common and cheap adjustments you could make to any bike. A shortish rider, in particular, would expect to do those things on every bike they purchase.
You pretty much do have to make most bikes fit you , i've spent thousands doing just that over the years , But 40 dollars i spent on risers at the moment is bugger all , 290 for a seat is'nt breaking the bank , and its ok for what i use it for , but To change the cables , get a better seat tailor made to fit , ect ect , on a bike that i know will not end up a good 2 up touring bike is silly .

Thats why i'm saying i want to test the tenere , i believe its a superior bike on the dirt , than the v strom but that does'nt matter to me , because i don't have the skills to take the v strom to its limits anyway , My main questions are , is it suitable for the long distance 2 up stuff , At the moment i generally do 2 big trips a year 5-6000 klm a trip , and countless 3-400 klm days at weekends , the v strom is for the smaller trips daily , never ride it 2 up , and for going down the local trails its a bike which since i've had it i ride 80% of the time but only put 20% of the mileage on . I've had it 5-6 weeks now , only done 2300 klm , but in a few days i'm off on the tourer for a fortnights ride and will put 6000 klm on it .

When i retire in a few weeks i'll be doing a lot more miles , so you can see why the thought of one bike makes sence , and just upgrade every 3-4 years .
And this adventure bike stuff i'm really enjoying , just come back from a ride about a hour ago .. Walked in the house , wet and full of mud wife said i' look like a pig who's been rolling around in the mud . My answer was , and i feel has happy has a pig in shit

Got to be honest its not really adventure riding , its only dirt and gravel roads , with a few muddy fire tracks threw in. All within 40-50 klm of my house , but heh , a few weeks ago i did'nt even know they were there , and its a adventure to me .

Who knows when i get better at riding these roads , i might even get to go play with the big boys who know what there doing . I'm not ready yet , its still all slow and careful , but i'll get there .
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Old 08-18-2013, 11:32 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by coneye View Post
Your right i am sensetive to comfort , my rocket never fit , i lowerered that , put risers on , touring seat and riders backrest , now i can do hundreds of klm 's day after day .. Its just that with 650 engine i don't really think its going to be suitable for the long hauls i do two , three times a year , plus the countless 3-400 klm days i do regular .

If the tenere is , a better off road bike than the v strom that would be great ,, because like i said its the adventure riding , finding these side trails and tracks that i'm really enjoying .. But if its a pig on the road in the twisties , i would be disapointed because thats where i am really really enjoying the v strom , it handles them better than the bonneville i traded for it , .

If the tenere is the same and also a comfortable tourer i would be rapped and found my perfect bike, but unfortunatly my local dealer does'nt have a demo , by the way if i got the tenere i would spend on the comfort

The v strom could be made comfortable like any bike could , its just that it will never for me be a tourer especielly, 2 up fully loaded , hitting the freeways with road trains you have to pass ,

The rocket tourer i have is probably king of the beast for me any way , and nothing will have the power -comfort that thing has got , but i still like the idea of one bike , .

Thanks for your opinion , and the opinions of everyone else , you learn by asking questions , and if it does'nt happen i'll stick with the 2 bikes , , at least until i get a lot more proficeint at dirt riding , then being the obsesive personality type of bloke , i'll probably want a trail bike that can handle the simpson desert , ,
You might want to give the KTM 990 a try. It's one heck of a bike. And well suited for those off road travels perhaps more than say the Super Tenure.
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Old 08-19-2013, 12:55 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by coneye View Post
Thats why i'm saying i want to test the tenere , i believe its a superior bike on the dirt , than the v strom but that does'nt matter to me , because i don't have the skills to take the v strom to its limits anyway
That's not the point. You rarely ever take a bike to its limits when not in racing conditions except occasionally unexpectedly , its just easier to do what you do and because you can do it EASIER, means less fatigue and more enjoyment per day.

Don't delete a whole part of a country because you can't race successfully with a Dakar champion. It's not about that.

KTM's are even more "natural" off road and feel easier, if you bring a ladder.

Think of it this way. If you have to race a long DAKAR race the bike that takes less out of a rider of any caliber at any speed is going to be the one that has a greater chance of winning assuming equal talent.

If one bike is a complete nervous wreck off road and another is a breeze to ride, the rider on the second bike is going to be devoting less energy to do the same job and will go harder for longer.

The longer the race the more it matters. It about how it feels on the gravel not how fast it can possibly go.

Simpson desert?

Have a talk to philth
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GrahamD screwed with this post 08-19-2013 at 01:02 AM
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Old 08-19-2013, 02:07 AM   #38
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I hear what your saying Graham . I personaly don't race ANYONE anywhere , I know my limits , and with me on the dirt its slow and easy , i've yet to feel uncomfortable on any of the dirt tracks i've been on , because i simply don't go fast . Gravel with lots of thick marble and pebble size stones , throw the bike a bit but i know better tyres will help .

Thats why if the Tenere is better or worse on the dirt would'nt bother me at all , because both bikes can do more than i'm capable off . , I'm much more concerned with the touring comforts and overtaking road trains on the highway , with the wife and luggage on the back
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Old 08-19-2013, 02:37 AM   #39
GrahamD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coneye View Post
I hear what your saying Graham . I personaly don't race ANYONE anywhere , I know my limits , and with me on the dirt its slow and easy , i've yet to feel uncomfortable on any of the dirt tracks i've been on , because i simply don't go fast . Gravel with lots of thick marble and pebble size stones , throw the bike a bit but i know better tyres will help .

Thats why if the Tenere is better or worse on the dirt would'nt bother me at all , because both bikes can do more than i'm capable off . , I'm much more concerned with the touring comforts and overtaking road trains on the highway , with the wife and luggage on the back
I'll try again. I suppose what I am trying to say is that like you I tended to run a bit slow and steady in the gravel on the Strom because unlike the tarmac it didn't inspire confidence. I put that down to needing more practice. That was part true. I always need more practice anywhere.

It was better than a very race set up SV due to more leverage on the bars but it had this tendency to be knocked of line and try to fall, which immediately put me off.

I have been through this with a few people as well. They find it hard to believe that there is much difference. So be it.

A friend of mine eventually convinced himself that he might give this scary ring puckering dirt road thing a go, so I he currently owns an RT ring pucker inducer and has all the 911 things and special tools etc so I suggested he try a 2nd hand GS while reminding him to keep in mind that the S10, and GS are not MX bikes despite what you may have seen on YouTube.

So he did.

Now Mr "Dirt roads are for crazy people" is merrily running around sending me pictures of him off on tracks scraping bash plates and experiencing a whole new thing. Mainly he is heading off down LONG dirt roads which he avoided before as much as possible. He doesn't care now.

The Tenere is a BIT more dirt oriented than a GS but not as dirt oriented as the KTM. It was the bikes giving him the impression that he was no good off road, Once he got on a bike that was happier there and was able to help him along he progressed.

Just like I did.

That is all I am saying.

You sort of have to be ready to do that. It's not All the riders fault.

But if you still want to just stick to tarmac then the more tarmac oriented bikes like the TEX, Versys1000, Cross tourer would be a less compromised mount without having to spend 27K. More road train passing oomph and faster steering on the road.

In fact they mjay be giving away DL1000's right now, if there are any left. There are some serious deals to be had on Crosstourers as well, if there are any left. In fact right now it seems anything that is not a new GS has some good prices.

The lambs are all in the yard at the BMW slaughter house right now.
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Old 08-19-2013, 04:39 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Desert Dave View Post
I'm guessing if you swapped bikes with that same rider, you still would have lost him and he still would have turned around. Does that say anything about the equipment?
I am a crappy rider but i would challenge any of super 10 on the road, restricted or not.
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:58 AM   #41
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I'm kind of in the same boat other than the retirement gig...

Currently running two bikes and really want to trim back to one. There is no way I can justify a street only bike as my main riding buds will always pick the gravel road over something paved.
My current "adv" bike is a KTM 950 ADV which completely rocks when the pavement ends but isn't the best street bike. My touring rig is a HD Ultra Limited and it's really good at eating miles, just set the cruise and turn on some tunes, but isn't something you'd want to spend time off pavement on.

So I've kicked around a lot of different bikes and want something that isn't a budget buster as I'd like to go down to one and pocket at least 10 grand in the process. So GS is out as is the TEX as they're just a bit more than I want to spend and I am not sold on either bikes reliability. The S10 really looks like the correct direction (for me anyway) as it has nearly everything I'm looking for in my next ride.

I know the DL1000 has been mentioned and I had one I put 12k miles on. Not my cup of tea, good on the road, not so good off it. While it can be ridden down dirt/gravel roads it was horrible when things got soft. Where the KTM begs for more throttle when the road deteriorates the DL started making you pucker and pucker hard not to mention really top heavy. I know guys can ride the hell out of the DL off pavement but it just never worked that way for me on anything less than hard pack gravel.

I've heard the S10 isn't horrible on dirt and just need to ride it now. I have a good dealer close that will let me ride his personal S10 so I'll be heading up later this week and pulling the trigger if it fits the bill. I have my fingers crossed it's as good as everyone says. I don't need a single track machine and just want a bike that is as comfortable at 70mph on gravel as it is on pavement.
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Old 08-19-2013, 06:59 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by coneye View Post
To change the cables , get a better seat tailor made to fit , ect ect , on a bike that i know will not end up a good 2 up touring bike is silly .
OK, your original post didn't mention two-up touring, so I thought we were just talking about ergos.

I haven't owned a Tenere, so I can't directly address that. I have owned a VStrom 1000 and and R1200 GS, and both beat the VStrom 650 for 2-up touring. That said, I am lucky to get my wife out camping off the bike with me once per year, and the VStrom 650 is surprisingly good at two-up touring for what it is (a 650cc with cheap suspension and brakes), so for me it made more sense to stick with something good for everyday driving that doesn't make me sick when I drop it :)

My point being, have you taken your wife on some rides to see how it suits you both?

Anyways, it is hard to fall back in love with what you've got after you get a crush on something else, and the start of retirement seems like a logical point at which to treat yourself if you can afford it.
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:49 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Desert Dave View Post
I currently own a Tenere and a DL1000 .......

One of the biggest is the way they deliver power IN STOCK FORM. The Tenere has a super smooth torque curve and enough power if you ask for it, but isn't close to being as responsive as the strom twin is. While I put far more miles on the Tenere, getting back on the strom gives me that hooligan like feeling as I twist the grip WFO and bring the Rs into the powerband. One can argue dyno charts and practicality all day long, but the Tenere couldn't match that feeling, and I missed that. Well now I'm on my second ECU flash on the Tenere and all of that has changed, and comparing it to my Strom with powercommander and secondaries removed they feel about the same on top with the Tenere being far superior in the bottom end.
I wondered how much the Tenere would improve with a reflash. Everytime I got off a test ride on a Tenere and got back on my Vee I thought "now this is how an engine should respond", I hated the throttle response on the Tenere. I would like to ride one with a good reflash to see how much it improves. A properly remapped Vee is a pretty sweet thing, smooth, torquey, very responsive, and still revs out well with a good rush.

The Vee's gearbox sounds like a box of rocks at the stop light in neutral but that's just how it is, but the Tenere's engine also puts out a pretty good racket.
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:42 PM   #44
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Won't buy without a test ride first?

That would have resulted in the S10 maybe never coming to Yankeeland.
It was the PDP crazies that drove that success story. And they\we waited an unexpected YEAR for our non-test driven bikes to arrive.

I met about 100 of those crazies at the Tenere rally. Most are fairly seasoned motorcyclists. Most, with many years on many bikes. And most, you couldn't pry their Teneres away from them.

Many were ridden thousands of miles loaded like pack mules. Lots of 2-uppers too.
Once they got to Colorado, the unpacked, setup camp, and then climbed mountains for a week. Only to load back up and return home taking the long way, if time permitted.

No guarantee the S10 is the bike for you. But a test drive won't determine that either. (IMO) In fact, many will tell you the S10 doesn't deliver on a test drive. Doesn't reveal it's strengths. I tend to agree.

You gotta live with it a while. Break it in real good. Take a couple of adventure rides on it. If that's not a strategy you can or will abide by, it isn't likely gonna end up in your garage.
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Old 08-20-2013, 03:47 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by danketchpel View Post
I wondered how much the Tenere would improve with a reflash. Everytime I got off a test ride on a Tenere and got back on my Vee I thought "now this is how an engine should respond", I hated the throttle response on the Tenere. I would like to ride one with a good reflash to see how much it improves. A properly remapped Vee is a pretty sweet thing, smooth, torquey, very responsive, and still revs out well with a good rush.

The Vee's gearbox sounds like a box of rocks at the stop light in neutral but that's just how it is, but the Tenere's engine also puts out a pretty good racket.
The S10 is dry sump. That got the motor down in the Chassis another couple of inches for better COG so it does sound a bit "dry".

The S10 is tuned more for chugging through the rough stuff and less for doing 200km/h, and is pretty linear. That's not an "exciting" engine, it's a "fit for purpose" engine. IE very flexible. Not the kind of thing that jumps out and says wow until you experience the whole spectrum of uses. You won't get that on a test ride in 30 minutes around the streets.
It and pretty honest design, not designed to impress reviewers or on test ride laps but to do what it was advertised to do as best as possible.

If you only want a sports tourer for bad tarmac roads there are better options.
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