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Old 08-20-2013, 05:11 PM   #46
GlennR
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Wonder if Yamaha has plans for offering a smaller version? They don't offer the 660 here, but 1200cc is more than a lot of folks want. I like Yamahas, but 800-1000cc would be plenty for me.
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Old 08-20-2013, 05:24 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by snakebitten View Post

No guarantee the S10 is the bike for you. But a test drive won't determine that either. (IMO) In fact, many will tell you the S10 doesn't deliver on a test drive. Doesn't reveal it's strengths. I tend to agree.

You gotta live with it a while. Break it in real good. Take a couple of adventure rides on it. If that's not a strategy you can or will abide by, it isn't likely gonna end up in your garage.
This x1000.

Frankly, without the clutch-switch mod, this bike is not all that great, but once you do the mod, it's a whole new ride. I hear the ECU flash takes this improvement to the next level.

If you DO get a test ride, take a fuse and jumper the clutch.
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:03 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by danketchpel View Post
I wondered how much the Tenere would improve with a reflash. Everytime I got off a test ride on a Tenere and got back on my Vee I thought "now this is how an engine should respond", I hated the throttle response on the Tenere. I would like to ride one with a good reflash to see how much it improves. A properly remapped Vee is a pretty sweet thing, smooth, torquey, very responsive, and still revs out well with a good rush.

.
After my first test ride with a Tenere, I wouldn't have bought it if I didn't know there was a reflash available. I did the original gen 1 ECU unleashed reflash and it was much better than stock, but still didn't have the wow factor. The Gen 2 reflash put that smile on my face. Unfortunately for the Strom, the only difference I notice now when I get on it is the lack of bottom end compared to the Yamaha. Niether is an open class sportbike, but if the responsiveness of the DL1000 is good enough to float your boat, a properly flashed Tenere will to.


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Originally Posted by GrahamD View Post

The S10 is tuned more for chugging through the rough stuff and less for doing 200km/h, and is pretty linear. That's not an "exciting" engine, it's a "fit for purpose" engine. IE very flexible. Not the kind of thing that jumps out and says wow until you experience the whole spectrum of uses. You won't get that on a test ride in 30 minutes around the streets.
It and pretty honest design, not designed to impress reviewers or on test ride laps but to do what it was advertised to do as best as possible.

If you only want a sports tourer for bad tarmac roads there are better options.
I'd agree with your assessment, in stock form the tractability (even with TC off) is amazing how much power you can put down in the dirt and stay in control. A quick test ride doesn't show this.

But I think you can have both, with the reflash it DOES impress me now, and I think I'd easily feel that on a quick test ride.
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Old 08-20-2013, 07:33 PM   #49
AlsoRan
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Originally Posted by danketchpel View Post
I would like to ride one with a good reflash to see how much it improves. A properly remapped Vee is a pretty sweet thing, smooth, torquey, very responsive, and still revs out well with a good rush.
I've owned a properly remapped V-Strom 1000 and now the Super Tenere with the latest mapping. Both rock stock otherwise except for lower gearing on the V-Strom. You describe the V-Strom well but only after changing the gearing (no comparison from stock), then it was "responsive" and had good pull but it still offers less punch than the Super T set on sport mode. You have to hang on and be ready to upshift with the Yamaha - it really goes! Definitely more powerful. The nice thing is that you can switch to touring mode in an instant and it makes for a nice smooth power delivery for 2up cruising. Best of both worlds.
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Old 08-20-2013, 07:52 PM   #50
AlsoRan
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I'm much more concerned with the touring comforts and overtaking road trains on the highway , with the wife and luggage on the back


Are those the road trains that run what seems is 100 Kilometers an hour on the dirt roads? Not sure I would want to pass one of those with the wife on the back! For sure not on a V-strom with the fork flex that it has, way too unpredictable in the dirt.

The Super Tenere will settle that issue for sure - a good stable platform on those types of roads. Still not sure I would want to pass one of those trains at those speeds.
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Old 08-20-2013, 08:39 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Desert Dave View Post
I'd agree with your assessment, in stock form the tractability (even with TC off) is amazing how much power you can put down in the dirt and stay in control. A quick test ride doesn't show this.

But I think you can have both, with the reflash it DOES impress me now, and I think I'd easily feel that on a quick test ride.
I have no doubt, but when I can get away, I do a lot of slab on our police infested roads and don't need Hyper Mode.
It's just even as standard The S10 is happy to work on country roads in top gear from 60 to 180, and when I get there I can continue down long crap gravel, sand infested road and go another 500Km in one gear. Less need to go hunting around for gears while you are busy negotiating rocks or sand. As long as you are in the approximately right gear it continues moving forward well all while giving me better fuel economy.

I'll be getting the flash because it helps with the economy and helps with the torque where I use it, I am not that interested in max HP. I spend a very small percentage of my time at 8 grand, mainly because I don't need to on this size bike. If it was an XT250 that would be different I am sure.

This is the kind of engine I would love to stick a Supercharger on. Maybe not a Roots. I need to see the road.
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Old 08-20-2013, 08:43 PM   #52
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Are those the road trains that run what seems is 100 Kilometers an hour on the dirt roads?
No he was talking about the tarmac part. You just have to hope a half dismantled Roo doesn't fly out at you have way through the pass so the quicker the better.

The reason you want to pass one is you don't want to find a a half dismantled Roo flying out from under one without warning.

It's a tough life in Australia.
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Old 08-20-2013, 08:50 PM   #53
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reflash one, two, reflash three -- and s10 flies away from the Tiger Explorer

To get the Vee worse on the road, the Tenere has to produce both power and torque more than its official figures. Strom has really such a mod - it's called an SV engine. But what a magical button Yamaha owners have at their elbow.
Fantastic, breaking the laws of physics simply by remapping. Noble prize to everyone!
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:05 PM   #54
Desert Dave
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breaking the laws of physics simply by remapping. Noble prize to everyone!
o.k., I'll bite (I probably shouldn't ) how does de-restricting a motor to run at the potential it always could have if it weren't for lawyers and environmental laws, break the laws of physics?

I haven't seen any huge HP gains claimed, usually just 1 or 2. Most objective dynos I've seen rate both bikes in the low 90s at RWHP, but the torque curve on the Tenere ramps up way sooner and much flatter across the range. Maybe 20% more displacement helps?
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:02 PM   #55
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Maybe 20% more displacement helps?
And longer intake runs and different cam profiles maybe?
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:04 PM   #56
GrahamD
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Originally Posted by Bolzen View Post
reflash one, two, reflash three -- and s10 flies away from the Tiger Explorer
Time for you to buy a Multi, It's got more laws of physics than the Tiger.
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Old 08-21-2013, 11:19 AM   #57
Bolzen
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o.k., I'll bite (I probably shouldn't ) how does de-restricting a motor to run at the potential it always could have if it weren't for lawyers and environmental laws, break the laws of physics?
Shaft mechanical losses are at least 10% more than that of a chain, and that is very close to the difference in power between two bikes. But the s10 is 50 lbs heavier -- it can keep abreast of the Strom only in fairy tales, which i still read with pleasure from time to time.
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Old 08-21-2013, 11:23 AM   #58
Bolzen
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Time for you to buy a Multi, It's got more laws of physics than the Tiger.
But it's got more flaws of physics with them also
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Old 08-21-2013, 06:14 PM   #59
Desert Dave
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Originally Posted by Bolzen View Post
Shaft mechanical losses are at least 10% more than that of a chain, and that is very close to the difference in power between two bikes. But the s10 is 50 lbs heavier -- it can keep abreast of the Strom only in fairy tales, which i still read with pleasure from time to time.
You're playing with spec sheets again.

We aren't talking about peak HP or top speed.

Pick a gear and roll WFO at 2,000 rpm and see which one jumps to attention and which one needs to ramp up first into the powerband, if you can't feel it there, well then I don't know what to say. This is real world felt power.

The strom may very well have a better quarter mile times,even after mods. I don't know (really don't care). I do know that I have to shift more to keep it in the power, and if I try to lug it like I can the Tenere it comes out of corners feeling gutless. That's a real world assessment. The roads I do ride quick can easily spin the tire long before peak power on either bike, so available power is far easier to ride than peak power. I mean seriously, why would I make this up? I have, and like both bikes, and until the reflash I was vocal about how the Strom was better in this regard, even after the first reflash. Things have changed now. It's really pretty simple.
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Old 08-21-2013, 06:29 PM   #60
danketchpel
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Originally Posted by Desert Dave View Post
After my first test ride with a Tenere, I wouldn't have bought it if I didn't know there was a reflash available. I did the original gen 1 ECU unleashed reflash and it was much better than stock, but still didn't have the wow factor. The Gen 2 reflash put that smile on my face. Unfortunately for the Strom, the only difference I notice now when I get on it is the lack of bottom end compared to the Yamaha. Niether is an open class sportbike, but if the responsiveness of the DL1000 is good enough to float your boat, a properly flashed Tenere will to.
That's good to know. I kinda figured there was a good engine hiding under that plastic if only the computer gave it the right commands.

Kinda funny we're comparing a 10 year old engine with next to zero updates to the Tenere.....

To get with the program we'd need to be comparing it to the latest KTM 1190 and Multistrada. Honestly, after riding the MS I thought it was almost too much, but it sure did recalibrate my thinking.
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