ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Orange Crush > Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-17-2013, 06:35 PM   #1
Mile Maker OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Mile Maker's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Southern Alberta, only 150 km to a curvy road
Oddometer: 100
HELP with 950 blown motor.

I was hoping that i could draw from the vast knowledge base of the inmates here on Orange Crush.

I am in the market for a KTM twin, My heart wants a new 1190 but my wallet said i should buy used. Recently i was searching some for sale adds and came across a 2006 950 adventure s with a blown engine. Lots of add ons including luggage, mufflers, suspension work, water pump, and many other things. Sounded like this was his baby before she blew. 56 000 km and routinely maintained.

So i got a little interested in this bike. I am a competent mechanic with enough free time on my hands that i should be able to take on a project like this no problem.
I email the guy and try to get some back story. He said he was trying to pass someone when the engine let go. He tore it down and found a toasted con rod bearing. He said everything else internally "was in great shape."

My problem is that i am unfamiliar with the weaknesses of a KTM engine. I did a lot of reading on this forum and a couple of other sites trying to help me figure out if these engines have weak spots that may be the cause of the failure.
I read about a possible oil pump regulator valve issue. If it fails it may cause a low oil pressure issue. Can anyone build on that? explain it further?
The oil is dumped by the regulator and fills up the engine sump and it does not get back into the oil tank properly, causing an oil starvation to the engine?
Is that correct?

Also if i do take on this project, is there anything else i should know about in the engine or inspect?
I would re seal everything and inspect all bearing and gears. Replace what is needed of course.
I assume it will need a crankshaft and con rod. i doubt the crank survived.
Re ring it and give the cylinders a good honing. Unless there is a big bore kit available.
Can a fellow put a 990 piston and jug on it? Give it a couple more cc?

And finally would the bike be worth the asking $4000? That seems steep to me for a blown engine .
Mile Maker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2013, 06:47 PM   #2
Orangecicle
Beastly Adventurer
 
Orangecicle's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Oddometer: 2,303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mile Maker View Post
I was hoping that i could draw from the vast knowledge base of the inmates here on Orange Crush.

I am in the market for a KTM twin, My heart wants a new 1190 but my wallet said i should buy used. Recently i was searching some for sale adds and came across a 2006 950 adventure s with a blown engine. Lots of add ons including luggage, mufflers, suspension work, water pump, and many other things. Sounded like this was his baby before she blew. 56 000 km and routinely maintained.

So i got a little interested in this bike. I am a competent mechanic with enough free time on my hands that i should be able to take on a project like this no problem.
I email the guy and try to get some back story. He said he was trying to pass someone when the engine let go. He tore it down and found a toasted con rod bearing. He said everything else internally "was in great shape."

My problem is that i am unfamiliar with the weaknesses of a KTM engine. I did a lot of reading on this forum and a couple of other sites trying to help me figure out if these engines have weak spots that may be the cause of the failure.
I read about a possible oil pump regulator valve issue. If it fails it may cause a low oil pressure issue. Can anyone build on that? explain it further?
The oil is dumped by the regulator and fills up the engine sump and it does not get back into the oil tank properly, causing an oil starvation to the engine?
Is that correct?

Also if i do take on this project, is there anything else i should know about in the engine or inspect?
I would re seal everything and inspect all bearing and gears. Replace what is needed of course.
I assume it will need a crankshaft and con rod. i doubt the crank survived.
Re ring it and give the cylinders a good honing. Unless there is a big bore kit available.
Can a fellow put a 990 piston and jug on it? Give it a couple more cc?

And finally would the bike be worth the asking $4000? That seems steep to me for a blown engine .
I recently tore down my 950 motor due to an odd problem it was having. We just did the top end of the motor. I did most of the work myself, but I did use a local shop's workbench, and the owner helped me out A LOT! But, I removed the motor and put it back in. We put back in new rings, new head gaskets, new valve drive chains, new chain guides, new 990 cams (my cams were pitted), new tensioners, and a couple of other new parts.

I spent $1500, with $1,000 of that in parts alone for the new top end. You would spend a lot more tearing into a motor even deeper and also having to deal with some obvious significant issues. I would not even try. I would look for a decent 990 SD motor on ebay, switch out the couple of parts needed to use it in a 950, and plop it in. I would guess that a "good" 990 donor motor would run you $2,000+. And, you would still have some work to do to get the new motor in. So, is $4,000 for a 950 with a blown motor a good price. I would say, no way. You could part it out for a couple grand easy, so I would say the bike is worth something more than that, but not $4,000.
__________________
"I'd like to meet the joker who had the nerve to call this a road!" -- Walter Sigmann
"Gravity is a very fickle mistress." -- Unknown
Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/brad.horn.9
Orangecicle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2013, 07:46 PM   #3
GrenDesb
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2011
Location: Québec
Oddometer: 312
Look for Pyndon's thread, he rebuilt his and has a thread full of great info about the rebuild.

Personally, i'd look for a complete used motor. To me, burnt conrod bearing is most likely due to lack of or bad lubrication which may have caused damages elsewhere.
GrenDesb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2013, 08:18 PM   #4
Mile Maker OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Mile Maker's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Southern Alberta, only 150 km to a curvy road
Oddometer: 100
i just found Pyndon's engine rebuild write up. Great info. What a wealth of information on the differences in the engines throughout the years.

I think that this project would be more than i want to tackle. Unless he is willing to part with it for $2000 or so.

Another bad thing is that i dont have a KTM dealer in town here. I would have to travel 150 km to get to a parts counter.


Screw it, i will just have to work some OT and buy me a 1190. Or maybe a 990 baja. Theres one of those on the same site asking 15 500 Very low km. 2013 with 1000 km.
Mile Maker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2013, 04:01 AM   #5
Sumi
Beastly Adventurer
 
Sumi's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Hungary
Oddometer: 1,757
Me myself I've never heard about an LC8 engine with a conrod bearing failure. But from my LC4 experiences I can say that it can get quite expensive, because if the bearing fails it introduces sideways movement to the pistons which tend to screw up the cylinder and piston as well. If nothing else is hurt inside there - which I doubt, because even with a failing conrod bearing the engine would still run for quite a time - the cost of two cyls, pistons and the new conrods (IF the crank survived) would sure be close to $4-5-6k to say the least, not to mention the cost of the proper tools needed for a rebuild. So the only real option here - as already mentioned - is to buy a used engine and swap it out - you can keep the old one for spare parts though.. It's still cheaper than a 1190, but the most rational idea in my opinion surely would be to buy a normal condition 9x0 :)
__________________
2005.5 950 Adventure (with 265mm travel suspension)
Sumi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2013, 04:55 AM   #6
Peanuts
Beastly Adventurer
 
Peanuts's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: UK
Oddometer: 1,523
Second big end failure on an LC8 I have heard about in a month...... but as the motor has been around for 10 years I guess its no sign of a major trend!
Peanuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2013, 05:15 AM   #7
charlie264
Beastly Adventurer
 
charlie264's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Blighty
Oddometer: 8,096
Find another engine, then look at the combined price.....you could have a great bike....for not much $$$$

A couple here have put 990 motors in the 950 setup...ie carbs rather than FI, timing gear wheel from the 950, cams maybe.....that's it.
__________________
Beauty is truth and truth is beauty.
Charlie's Side Stand Relocator.
charlie264 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2013, 05:50 AM   #8
kamanya
Andrew to most
 
kamanya's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Southern Tip of Africa
Oddometer: 1,293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangecicle View Post
I recently tore down my 950 motor due to an odd problem it was having. We just did the top end of the motor. I did most of the work myself, but I did use a local shop's workbench, and the owner helped me out A LOT! But, I removed the motor and put it back in. We put back in new rings, new head gaskets, new valve drive chains, new chain guides, new 990 cams (my cams were pitted), new tensioners, and a couple of other new parts.

I spent $1500, with $1,000 of that in parts alone for the new top end. You would spend a lot more tearing into a motor even deeper and also having to deal with some obvious significant issues. I would not even try. I would look for a decent 990 SD motor on ebay, switch out the couple of parts needed to use it in a 950, and plop it in. I would guess that a "good" 990 donor motor would run you $2,000+. And, you would still have some work to do to get the new motor in. So, is $4,000 for a 950 with a blown motor a good price. I would say, no way. You could part it out for a couple grand easy, so I would say the bike is worth something more than that, but not $4,000.
SD Motors have different internal gearing.

All SM, SE and ADV have the same ratios.
SD has a narrower box and SM-T has a wider box than all.

However, if you do get a 990 SD/SM-T motor, the 950 internal gears slot right in so you could use the blown motors gearbox.

I refreshed 04 950 with a 990 SD Motor and was unhappy with the gearing so took a deep breath and tried to transplant the 950 gearbox into the 990 engine.

It's worked really well.
__________________
I often wonder where that road goes? And that, has usually made all the difference. Appologies to Mr Frost

kamanya screwed with this post 08-18-2013 at 06:28 AM
kamanya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2013, 09:06 AM   #9
Jaimoto
Beastly Adventurer
 
Jaimoto's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Spaniard in Chile
Oddometer: 1,225
Look for Pyndon's threads in the flea market, if I recall correctly he was selling a complete 950 engine
Shipping costs could be overkill though
__________________
Jaime

2007 KTM 990 Adventure
2012 Yamaha BWs 125
Jaimoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2013, 10:48 AM   #10
Mile Maker OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Mile Maker's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Southern Alberta, only 150 km to a curvy road
Oddometer: 100
This is all really good advice. Thanks guys.

I am going to research the cost of a transplant for sure. And might go look at the bike still.

But i doubt i will buy. He would have to drop his price significantly in order to win me over.

I am mostly satisfied with my current ride, but it is now fully farkled and i need another project.

a newer 990 would be the wisest choice of bikes. It seems that KTM is proactive in identifying and fixing weak points in their bikes. Unlike some other manufactures. But i guess they had to, they seemed to have develped a reputation for being unreliable with their early bikes. Seing the list of updates has eased my skepticism with the brand.
Mile Maker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2013, 09:21 PM   #11
ApriliaDan
Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Location: Sylvan Lake, AB
Oddometer: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamanya View Post
SD Motors have different internal gearing.

All SM, SE and ADV have the same ratios.
SD has a narrower box and SM-T has a wider box than all.

However, if you do get a 990 SD/SM-T motor, the 950 internal gears slot right in so you could use the blown motors gearbox.

I refreshed 04 950 with a 990 SD Motor and was unhappy with the gearing so took a deep breath and tried to transplant the 950 gearbox into the 990 engine.

It's worked really well.
I am sure it is posted elsewhere so if you just want to add a link feel free. But curious what is involved with putting a 990 out of a super duke into the 950?

Thx

Dan
ApriliaDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2013, 11:41 PM   #12
kamanya
Andrew to most
 
kamanya's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Southern Tip of Africa
Oddometer: 1,293
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApriliaDan View Post
I am sure it is posted elsewhere so if you just want to add a link feel free. But curious what is involved with putting a 990 out of a super duke into the 950?

Thx

Dan
Dan, I did put the links in. Click on the underlined blue writing. It should take you there.
__________________
I often wonder where that road goes? And that, has usually made all the difference. Appologies to Mr Frost
kamanya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 11:37 PM   #13
ApriliaDan
Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Location: Sylvan Lake, AB
Oddometer: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamanya View Post
Dan, I did put the links in. Click on the underlined blue writing. It should take you there.
Oops how did I miss that! Thanks!
ApriliaDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 09:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014