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Old 08-18-2013, 07:45 AM   #1
Ramseybella OP
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Woody's wheel 21" front and skid plate hitting Super Tenere?

Anybody come up with a real solution on the 21" Woody wheel hitting the skid plate at full compression?
I need to find one that will work please..
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Old 08-18-2013, 11:05 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramseybella View Post
Anybody come up with a real solution on the 21" Woody wheel hitting the skid plate at full compression?
I need to find one that will work please..
Difficult... the 21" is so close to the engine that depending of the tire it hits the front pipe.
I needed to modify my ACD to avoid it hits the plate

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Old 08-18-2013, 07:22 PM   #3
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jaumev,

Your Tenere is not only off the hook it's off the chain, Love this thing.

Never the less I wont be using such an aggressive tire in the front but do worry about nailing my sump pan eventually and it will happen some far off place.
Let me know how you figured it out if you did at all.
To bad the Tenere's extra oil filter portal was usably like two stubby filters instead of one 2.5" filter.
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Old 08-19-2013, 01:21 PM   #4
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Only 2 practical ways I can see. Don't let it bottom, stiffer suspension. With proper fork tuning you could set it up to be progressive yet not bottom out, or bottom earlier, keeping the tire from traveling as far. It may take some internal changes such as bottoming dampers added inside the forks, likely would need to be done by a suspension savvy tuner. I've made my own fork springs by cutting up 3 different weight fork springs and stacking them. These days you can probably find triple rate springs somewhere. Simply using a high fork oil level might keep the tire off of the skid plate, and heavier fork oil will slow down the progression. There are several ways to modify your fork internals, damping, oil, air, springs, bottoming stops.

Or change forks to a leading axle type. It's possible that a leading axle type fork/tire combo may still rub but not likely, and if it did it would not rub as much. Of course stiffer suspension and leading axle may both be necessary. I think leading axle style forks look better on off road bikes. More of the Rally look, and functional as well. Steering will be a bit slower, which should be ok off road, even helpful regarding stability.

On road, not sure what will happen with leading axle forks and such a heavy bike with the weight that is on the front wheel. I imagine that you will get some "push" added on pavement. You'll get the push off road as well but off road there are so many ways to work around it, brake sliding, changing corner entrances, front brake trail braking to compress the forks and decrease turn in, etc. With a 21" front tire and any heavy bike on road traction in turns will be compromised, and keeping knobs on the tire will be tough on and off road. Tall knobs on skinny tires on heavy bikes just don't last.

Another idea is triple tree offset being greater, but it would have to be quite a bit raked out, probably not the ticket. Come to think of it though, you could tune out some of the push of a leading axle setup with triple tree offset if necessary.

Kudos on your bike setup. It looks great, yet also functional. Not many riders want a 1200 cc bike that actually works off road. Your testicles must need their own suspension and skid plate.
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Old 08-19-2013, 04:09 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by jgas View Post
Only 2 practical ways I can see. Don't let it bottom, stiffer suspension. With proper fork tuning you could set it up to be progressive yet not bottom out, or bottom earlier, keeping the tire from traveling as far. It may take some internal changes such as bottoming dampers added inside the forks, likely would need to be done by a suspension savvy tuner. I've made my own fork springs by cutting up 3 different weight fork springs and stacking them. These days you can probably find triple rate springs somewhere. Simply using a high fork oil level might keep the tire off of the skid plate, and heavier fork oil will slow down the progression. There are several ways to modify your fork internals, damping, oil, air, springs, bottoming stops.

Or change forks to a leading axle type. It's possible that a leading axle type fork/tire combo may still rub but not likely, and if it did it would not rub as much. Of course stiffer suspension and leading axle may both be necessary. I think leading axle style forks look better on off road bikes. More of the Rally look, and functional as well. Steering will be a bit slower, which should be ok off road, even helpful regarding stability.

On road, not sure what will happen with leading axle forks and such a heavy bike with the weight that is on the front wheel. I imagine that you will get some "push" added on pavement. You'll get the push off road as well but off road there are so many ways to work around it, brake sliding, changing corner entrances, front brake trail braking to compress the forks and decrease turn in, etc. With a 21" front tire and any heavy bike on road traction in turns will be compromised, and keeping knobs on the tire will be tough on and off road. Tall knobs on skinny tires on heavy bikes just don't last.

Another idea is triple tree offset being greater, but it would have to be quite a bit raked out, probably not the ticket. Come to think of it though, you could tune out some of the push of a leading axle setup with triple tree offset if necessary.

Kudos on your bike setup. It looks great, yet also functional. Not many riders want a 1200 cc bike that actually works off road. Your testicles must need their own suspension and skid plate.
"Your testicles must need their own suspension and skid plate".

Honestly? No I'm just stupid and bought this bike on a Whim!!
I wanted a Tenere and thought the Woody's wheels gave it an advantage, it has but at a price!!
I need to stiffen the front and get a tight skid plate I don't do full balls to the wall dirt riding anymore just Exploration riding, this bike does it well.
Thanks for your input Brother..
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Old 08-19-2013, 07:33 PM   #6
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SuperTenereTesticle disease. No medication needed.

Seriously? Heck yeah. Nothing wrong with SuperTenereTesticle disease though. I kinda have a little of it myself, but without the Tenere part. I once put flat track tires on a hopped up KZ 650 and rode the crap out of it off road. Stiffer springs, dirt bike bars, half-knobbies, lower gearing, I was happy. Great wheelies, slid like a champ on dirt roads. I even climbed some hills with it. I've finished 2 long course enduros on a KLR 650, all with homeade mods. My stepfather loved BMWs, had ridden big Triumphs and BSAs and Sportsters off road in the 50s-60s, and was an AA rider back then. He was slowing down when I knew him but would still ride a 74 BMW GS 750 off road on occasion.

I was riding his Beemer in the field when I was 13, and it weren't a smooth field. I was 6 ft tall, but 130 lbs, and couldn't pick it up, so I leaned a long 2x4 for a lever against the barn, along with a half-hay bale, (they used to be square and small), to shove under the motor thereby tipping it back up nearer center so I could lift it the rest of the way to the wheels. I made a tight singletrack 6 mile loop around our farm for my DT 175, and he rode the Beemer around it all with my mom on back. They only fell over twice. I grew up being dumb and thinking outside of the box just like my parents. I like seeing others do the unconventional to bikes to get exactly the performance or look they want.

I think that Tenere will make a fantastic off roader if you are willing to let it get beat on a little learning how to make it work off road. You and the bike will get some bumps and scratches learning, but it will be worth it. Each scar on you and the bike will be well earned, with bragging rights attached.

Back to the topic: That looks like a fantastic skid plate, but maybe too fantastic? Could you take some measurments, really look it over and cut/reweld it to tuck it in better? Maybe modify mounting, move it back, curve the center for tire clearance? Some combo of all that? Some of the aformentioned, plus stiffer forks might do it without changing forks and a wheel.

Whatever you do, make it work! It's a SuperCool project, pun intended.
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:11 PM   #7
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Wow!
I don't have the skid plate, thats not my bike this is..

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Old 08-20-2013, 04:28 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramseybella View Post
"Your testicles must need their own suspension and skid plate".

Honestly? No I'm just stupid and bought this bike on a Whim!!
I wanted a Tenere and thought the Woody's wheels gave it an advantage, it has but at a price!!
I need to stiffen the front and get a tight skid plate I don't do full balls to the wall dirt riding anymore just Exploration riding, this bike does it well.
Thanks for your input Brother..
I guess the question is: why do one really need a 21 inch on the front?
Wouldn't a 19, with good suspension set up, do it?

Or the question is: at what point of riding style does a 21 in front wheel becomes relevant to have in a large adventure bike?
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:47 AM   #9
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I guess the question is: at what point of riding style does a 21 in front wheel becomes relevant to have in a large adventure bike?
The Big Trailie bikes like the S10 or GS are much better bikes with the 21" front wheel and a proper set of tires. The advantage is very noticeable in loose gravel, mud, sand, creek crossings etc. yet takes little away from the pavement manners when forced to use sealed roads to get to the good stuff.

The 21" front wheel is not going to be relevant to those who are lamenting the lack of cruise control on their large adventure bike though
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:36 PM   #10
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The Big Trailie bikes like the S10 or GS are much better bikes with the 21" front wheel and a proper set of tires. The advantage is very noticeable in loose gravel, mud, sand, creek crossings etc. yet takes little away from the pavement manners when forced to use sealed roads to get to the good stuff.

The 21" front wheel is not going to be relevant to those who are lamenting the lack of cruise control on their large adventure bike though
Good reply thanks!!
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:04 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by MANXMAN View Post
The Big Trailie bikes like the S10 or GS are much better bikes with the 21" front wheel and a proper set of tires. The advantage is very noticeable in loose gravel, mud, sand, creek crossings etc. yet takes little away from the pavement manners when forced to use sealed roads to get to the good stuff.

The 21" front wheel is not going to be relevant to those who are lamenting the lack of cruise control on their large adventure bike though
So you are talking about tire availability as the advantage?
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Old 08-21-2013, 05:43 AM   #12
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So you are talking about tire availability as the advantage?
I would say it's a combination of the 20 mm narrower and more aggressive tires, slightly more gyroscopic effect of the taller wheel, and the resulting 3/4" higher front end's effect on the geometry.

Basically it no longer wants to "wash out" as badly on soft surfaces and rolls over obstacles with less drama. Front wheel braking off road has improved as well.
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Old 08-21-2013, 11:07 AM   #13
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Yes!
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Old 08-21-2013, 05:16 PM   #14
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I just posted a similar response on the Tiger thread, but here goes again: I tried just about every variation on a KLR 650, stock 17" rear wheel, 18" rear wheel, 21" stock wheel with various tires, and rode another guys off road modded KLR with a 19" front wheel laced to the stock hub so he could use a Mitas trials tire. Mitas specifically because they last much longer than most trials tires and have a much stiffer sidewall. You can still get most of the same soft grabby response on a Mitas as on a Michelin or Dunlop, with lower air pressure. Which you have to be very careful of on a heavy bike. But a Mitas trials tire seems to work on a heavy or light bike. I had one on my KLR, and now have another on my GasGas XC. They now make a 19" trials tire, as does Shinko and others. Have not used a Shinko, but have used a couple of their knobbies and "adventure" tread tires, and they are about what you'd expect, cheap, but not bad for the money.

Anyway, I think a possible solution for you guys and others wanting more off road handling while keeping decent on road manners is a 19" trials tire. They are usually about 30% taller than a knobby, narrower than a rear knobby, but wider than a front 21" tire. By my simply holding all the aforementioned up to one another in the shop, not mounted on wheels, it seems that a 19" trials tire is roughly the same height as a 21" tire with low tread such as those on many supermoto bikes. I think a 19" trials tire would be roughly equal in height to a 20" knobby, which they used to sell, 20" wheels on MX bikes was the craze a few yrs ago. I think one would mount and run well on a 19" front wheel on an adventure bike. You will have to forget the reccomended 4-9 lbs air pressure, and use somewhere between 14-20, with a heavy tube.

There are those who will scream that an off road trials tire on the street is crazy, it will come apart, wear out, have a wobbly ride, etc. That IS true, with MOST trials tires. I have personally run a 18" trials tire on a KLR, loaded with 65lbs of gear, I'm 225lbs, for 1500 miles, with no problems. It was Mitas. A Dunlop would probably last 100 miles on a heavy bike, IF you could ride it 100 miles with the soft sidewall flopping over. I have put about 3500 miles on a Mitas on a DRZ 400, up to 90mph many times, and also have one with about 3500 miles on it on my GasGas off roader. I've also used the Mitas on a KTM 520 with a supermoto wheel and front tire, and the trials tire roughly equalled he traction of the front tire.

What I have not done, is actually use a 19" trials tire of any brand on a heavy bike like a Tenere. But I would not be afraid to try it, or try a 19" rear knobby, especially any brand D.O.T. approved knobby. I would watch it carefully for heat damage, excessive wear, and funny handling traits, but I'd try it. I think it would fix your tire rubbing problem at least.

As for a taller tire on front of any bike, it is an almost necessary thing to do if you plan on serious or even semi-serious off roading. You ever get off of a kids MX bike like a KTM or Kawi 105, with small tires, then get on a slightly bigger kids bike like a TTR 225 or CRF 230? It feels like the bigger bike has much better suspension and allows much faster riding on rough terrain while in fact, the smaller bike has better suspension. It's 90% in the greater ability of the tires to roll over things. A front tire that is taller and narrower bites into terrain while turning, or in the case of a trials tire, flexes and grips off road terrain. Shorter street tires don't flex, grab, or roll over. They deflect, slide, and just basically suck. There is a reason the Baja 1000 and Dakar Rally guys have 21" front tires, even though some of their riding is on hard packed dirt that is much like pavement in places. Tall front tires just work better off road. How you get to the taller tire should'nt matter though. A narrow knobby that is tall on front should be good, as should a tall narrow trials tire. Which is best, I don't know, but both will be MUCH better than a shorter diameter tire/wheel, again, off road.

On road? The Dakar and Baja guys ride 5-600 lb bikes 120 mph in varied terrain. They make tall front tires work on pavement, sand, hardpack, mud, everything. The choices they make ain't accidental.
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Old 08-23-2013, 04:02 AM   #15
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I just had a Heidenau K60 Scout installed on the rear for bite and longer lasting and a Shinko 705 on the front for a bit more smoother ride.
So far it works, took it easy at first the K60 dose drift in turns a little but it is still new.
On hard pack rutted and rocky gravel roads it was super.
It's been some years since I had tube tires so I guess I am wondering how this works with a load and touring to far locations on pavement.
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