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Old 08-19-2013, 08:38 PM   #61
windmill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoonerYoda View Post
LOL @ Twin-cooled as well. WTF Harley?
"Piss-Head" seems to be gaining popularity..................
Harley is copying metrics, Indian is back..............................heads are exploding everywhere.


If your not emotionally invested, it makes for entertaining threads. like it really matters.
If you don't like it, don't buy it, and let others enjoy what they like.
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:25 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by grelcar View Post
Should be lots of used Harley hitting the market soon. All the hardcore Harley guys over on HD forums are getting rid of theirs because of the water cooling on a couple of new models. Indian might be selling lots of bikes. :)
Great...a flood of even more overpriced used Harley's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kraven View Post
Great. Now they'll migrate to Indian and turn that brand into a big circle jerk.

I think if Polaris wants Indian to do well in the future, they need to sell more than just the bikes. They need to sell it as a lifestyle brand as well.
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:17 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by jon_l View Post
Because other people using the road shouldn't have to listen to my music? Same as cars with giga-watt stereos pumping out the beats. I f*cking hate the selfish mentality these days that whatever I want trumps common decency.

F*ck loud stereos, cars or bikes, and double f*ck loud pipes. My temporary office is on the 8th floor of a downtown office building, and several times a day, a jackass ride by with so much trailing noise I can't hear my phone through the curtain-wall (sealed, not operable windows).

I use earphones when I listen to music in public.

Old grumpy guy rant over.
So no motorcycle should have a stereo because some jackasses blast music? Thinking of Office Space, " I was told I could listen to my radio at a reasonable volume".
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:27 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Jake Mountain View Post
Im glad i have never fallen victim of the allure of the american V twim. Harley's are nothing more than rolling road blocks where I ride, I pass them on my 35 horsepower KLR all the time. Over priced, under powered and ill handling is is what they specialize in and they sell the heck out of them. They haven't had any significant changes since the Evo in the 80's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bueller View Post
Why are you here? Why not jus avoid threads with "Harley-Davidson" in the title?
Bueller, you should know by now that an Harley (an for Anorak) thread isn't complete without this post.

You should look at Jake Mountain and say, "You complete me."
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Old 08-20-2013, 03:33 AM   #65
TxRoadDog
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They all look nice, but I think I'll stick with my old evo. No prejudice against the twin cams (ok so maybe I don't like twinkies ) but there is nothing like a good running evo.
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:23 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by grelcar View Post
Should be lots of used Harley hitting the market soon. All the hardcore Harley guys over on HD forums are getting rid of theirs because of the water cooling on a couple of new models. Indian might be selling lots of bikes. :)
Really? HD owners are getting rid of their air cooled bikes because HD will be selling a few expensive water pumpers?

That's beyond stupid.
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:53 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Sneaky Steve View Post
Really? HD owners are getting rid of their air cooled bikes because HD will be selling a few expensive water pumpers?

That's beyond stupid.
But you are speaking on the HD crowd - lol

BUt really ,I wonder how these bikes will do. I think as long as the have reatined enough of the old engine traits they will do well, if its too muhc of a change , well, Im not sure.
Oh, and the Victory thing - you are dead on , if they could sell the life style , they would be doing alot better- see also Ducati
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Old 08-20-2013, 05:05 AM   #68
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How would the Victory lifestyle and Indian lifestyle differ from the lifestyle image that Harley is marketing now?
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:10 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoonerYoda View Post
I think if Polaris wants Indian to do well in the future, they need to sell more than just the bikes. They need to sell it as a lifestyle brand as well.
There's a lot of truth in this statement. Harley's wouldn't be anywhere near as popular as they are if HD Corp hadn't seized, trademarked, branded and Disneyfied the outlaw subculture to give it mass appeal. It was/is a brilliant marketing strategy. But the whole 'purchase a lifestyle' concept is such a put off for me that I would not buy another Harley just on principle. At the time I first fell in love with Harleys, they were (to me) the epitome of the biggest, baddest two wheelers on the road. Now, decades later, the whole scene is a cartoon.

Unfortunately Indian will try/have to go down this road too if only to get the brand out to the masses. But as a true motorcycle nut, from my personal perspective, it will only cheapen the allure of owning one.

Victory may well become the only American bike that is sold on it's own merits as a quality motorcycle without all the lifestyle baggage attached.
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:18 AM   #70
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Per HD's website, the published numbers are:

Twin-Cooled 103: 105.5 ft-lb
High Output 103: 104.7 ft-lb

Doesn't seem to be much of a performance increase for the Pisshead. With the added weight of the radiator/plumbing assembly, I wonder if you can even notice the massive 0.8 ft-lb increase?? I also noticed the compression ratio is 10.0:1 on the Twin-Cooled and 9.7:1 on the High Output. For comparison, the 2013 Twin Cam 103 is listed at 100 ft-lb, 9.6:1 comp. Of course, performance was probably not a factor in the decision to add water cooling. Heat management was (IMHO).

I am looking forward to seeing the bikes in person and checking out the new touchscreen interface. I also like the idea of one-handed saddlebag operation. I just upgraded from a '05 Heritage Softail to a '12 Road King last year and am really happy with the bike. I won't be upgrading any time soon but it's always nice to see what is new.
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:59 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by slower_than_you View Post
BUt really ,I wonder how these bikes will do. I think as long as the have reatined enough of the old engine traits they will do well, if its too muhc of a change , well, Im not sure.
Oh, and the Victory thing - you are dead on , if they could sell the life style , they would be doing alot better- see also Ducati
I imagine there will be some resistance at first, but if the fairing redesign noticeably reduces buffeting and the Pissheads reduce engine heat in traffic, people will come around. IMHO Harley was wise to follow their usual strategy of making changes to just a couple models at first.

Regarding engine heat, I wonder if now the complaint will be heat off the radiators roasting the legs, or if venting is adequate.
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Old 08-20-2013, 07:25 AM   #72
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Old 08-20-2013, 07:31 AM   #73
Jake Mountain
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Originally Posted by Bueller View Post
Why are you here? Why not jus avoid threads with "Harley-Davidson" in the title?
Cause I can be same as you

Besides I like all motorcyles and have always like the sound of a Harley and have ridden alot of them. And also because I enjoy busting the balls of those who ride the slow ass things.
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Old 08-20-2013, 07:32 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gymply View Post
Per HD's website, the published numbers are:

Twin-Cooled 103: 105.5 ft-lb
High Output 103: 104.7 ft-lb

Doesn't seem to be much of a performance increase for the Pisshead. With the added weight of the radiator/plumbing assembly, I wonder if you can even notice the massive 0.8 ft-lb increase?? I also noticed the compression ratio is 10.0:1 on the Twin-Cooled and 9.7:1 on the High Output. For comparison, the 2013 Twin Cam 103 is listed at 100 ft-lb, 9.6:1 comp. Of course, performance was probably not a factor in the decision to add water cooling. Heat management was (IMHO).

I am looking forward to seeing the bikes in person and checking out the new touchscreen interface. I also like the idea of one-handed saddlebag operation. I just upgraded from a '05 Heritage Softail to a '12 Road King last year and am really happy with the bike. I won't be upgrading any time soon but it's always nice to see what is new.

The watercooled heads apparently allow the motor to make more power higher in the rev range. The factory torque ratings on the "twin cooled" are at 3750 rpm. For the "high output" 103 it hits the torque high at 3250 rpm.

Higher torque at higher rpm means higher horsepower. As we all know, torque and HP are identical numbers at 5200 rpm. If the watercooled heads allows Harley to run a 103 at, say, 90 ft lbs torque at 5200 that's not bad HP either.

Those numbers are off the crank...not rear wheel. My 2011 103 stock dynoed at 83 ft lb torque at the wheel...and I think it's factory rated at 100 at the crank.

For all the pissing and moaning about HD: I just got back from a nice trip around Lake Superior and a few little excursions around Ontario. Great trip...really good camping sites...and many motorcycles. By brand I'd guess that 70 percent were HD, 10 percent BMW, ten percent Wings...five percent victory or various other Vtwin touring bikes...and five percent "others" including a pair of 1970s Kawasakis with very faded Vetter fairings.

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Old 08-20-2013, 08:04 AM   #75
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I don't understanding all the thrashing and wailing about the HD waterhead engine. It can be had in only two bikes and a trike. Everything else remains airhead. From the attempts to conceal the radiators in the lower fairings, it's a reasonable bet that the Softtail, Dyna, Sportster and most of the Touring line won't soon be waterheads as they lack fairings in which to conceal the radiators. There are plenty of airhead HDs from which a buyer can choose. The waterheads will be purchased by aspirational types - those who always have to be among the first to have the new coolest thing.
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