ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > Layin' down tracks
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 7 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 08-25-2013, 04:05 PM   #76
markjenn
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Swellvue, WA
Oddometer: 10,306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drif10 View Post
But again, it requires a connection of some kind, and that's where I disagree with your statement that the smartphone is not going to have a prime spot in this regard. Until there's enough satellites up that can handle the bandwidth requirements to provide general access (In Canada, once you get 15 minutes away from the busiest highway in the country that runs past my place, forget about much cell service, and I live between the two busiest cities in the country. And before you say 'lack of population', I'll point south of the border at New England, the Appalachians, the mid-West, and the Western US states that have zip for coverage), then a device that holds it all onboard will be key.
Ubiquitous coverage is coming and in any event, this problem now is a minor caching issue, not a deal-breaker. There is no reason a vehicle can't easily store high-detailed maps of the entire world that are constantly being updated with changes when the car is range of an internet connection. The cost of storage is basically being halved about every 15 months or so - extrapolate that for a decade and you could store the most detailed maps of the entire world on $10 worth of storage.

From what I've heard this is almost a non-issue right now. The best iPad and iPhone apps keep a pretty good cache of map data and have to be out of range for a long time before lack of map data becomes much of an issue.

Quote:
Yes, you can have it in your Tesla. What happens when you hop in the wife's car? On your bike? Bicycle? Hiking? Hunting? All your data is back in the car, or in the cloud.
The system in the Tesla doesn't replace any of these other needs and you'll have processors and GPS systems to handle these too. That's the whole point - this stuff will become so cheap that GPS will be in EVERYTHING.

Quote:
That's a big reason why I think the future is in what Roddenberry described back in the late 1960's: The tricorder, known currently as the smart phone. All you need, in the palm of your hand.
Having handheld (or wearable) GPS technology will continue. Maybe a tricorder will happen. But you won't use the tricorder to navigate while you're in your car or motorcycle. Not when these things have purpose-built systems already there so much better integrated. They'll talk seamlessly with these other devices to exchange routes, way points, POI, bread crumbs, etc., but you won't use the handheld device as your primary means of navigation in the vehicle anymore than you'd use your phone to do your taxes when you have a computer sitting on your desk.

Quote:
And I don't see how Garmin has much of place in that future. Their app is pretty craptastic, to be honest. It's like they want it to fail. Which under their current business model, might just be the truth.
Garmin is blowing it, but it is VERY VERY hard for a company with a vested interest in one wave of technology to catch the next.

- Mark

markjenn screwed with this post 08-25-2013 at 04:14 PM
markjenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 06:40 PM   #77
HighTechCoonass OP
Living the Dream....
 
HighTechCoonass's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: land of the swamps!, Cajun Country LA
Oddometer: 2,457
Laugh general discussion on price point for the new motorcycle unit...

this is a forum where we discuss stuff...

My point is I think the marketing department is off target with their pricing on this unit. IMO the value to the customer is not there. And I was perfectly happy to buy their Iphone5 app - price on quality spot on IMO. No regrets here...

And the 60csx is priced reasonably.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwrider1946 View Post
We live in a free market society. It seems there has been a lot of time wasted complaining about price points. If I go into a store or on line and find something I like and want I simply decide if I think it is worth the money. If not I move on and find an alternative or decide I can do without. I don't spend one second feeling angry or frustrated about something I didn't buy because I thought it was too expensive.
__________________
Living the dream here in the good old USA! l
HighTechCoonass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 06:45 PM   #78
HighTechCoonass OP
Living the Dream....
 
HighTechCoonass's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: land of the swamps!, Cajun Country LA
Oddometer: 2,457
Laugh

Spot on!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drif10 View Post
Had a similar discussion with my wife on a trip recently. We got to talking about the dashboard gps and its likely extinct future.

For the average user (read: cager), the smartphone with maps loaded aboard on a dashmount will be the way to go. Car radio having bluetooth will take care of the audio, add a microphone, and your users will go with just one electronic device to keep track of. Proof of this is the digital camera market. For most, a simple pic with their smartphone will do, I haven't carried a camera in years myself.

So, if the theory is correct, then Garmin needs to look forward, and find a new home. Their aviation and pure marine sales should remain constant, but I suspect their outdoors sales with suffer along with the automotive. One possible revenue stream is in custom devices.

I'm not talking about unique units (the cost would be prohibitive), but in taking their existing hardware and software and allowing the customer to mate them together. How many of us have said that they'd love a 478 with a bigger screen and an SD card? They have marine choartplotters that can be just that, just give it to us without the marine surcharge. Or, how about a 2610 programming in a big screen?

We've all lamented the bazillion Nuvi choices (I've been in to GPS for over twenty years and I confuses that crap outta me, they seem all the same), and yet curse the lack of choice if you want it waterproof? IPX7=little screen or pay $2k for a marine unit.

The future of Garmin is unclear to me. Were I investing in tech, I wouldn't buy in the gps market. They've got to be sweating this, I wonder myself if the lifetime maps option on the wife's gps is gonna die with the company before the gps does.

I know that there are Garmin staff that are members here, and participate in an official capacity at times. We know that there's no way they'll speak to what I've written, but I hope that the 'build your own' option is one they're pursuing. I, for one, would pay the $800 price tag for a unit MY way. One built within their existing parts and software inventory. No need to re-invent the wheel, just do business differently to both fill a market need, and provide a revenue stream.

Random thoughts....
__________________
Living the dream here in the good old USA! l
HighTechCoonass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 02:39 PM   #79
genka
SUV hater
 
genka's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD
Oddometer: 1,502
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighTechCoonass View Post
...
And the 60csx is priced reasonably.
60csx has been discontinued. Anyway it is a good example of Garmin's way of making things worse. Used 60csx are sold for $300+. Can you think of any other electronics holding or gaining in value? Initially Garmin aimed their products on enthusiasts and they had a lot of features and adjustments. Later, when GPS units gained wider acceptance Garmin methodically dumbed their devices down. Didn't they know the rule "Make something any idiot can use, and only an idiot will want to use it"? But regardless, even in it is current sorry state, Zumo is the only motorcycle specific GPS and it still has a number of qualities not found in any other single device. Garmin owns the market and the pricing reflects it.
__________________
.

Форум мотоциклистов в США http://www.xytopok.net/mvnforum/listthreads?forum=31
genka is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 03:49 PM   #80
Drif10
Accredited Jackass
 
Drif10's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: Gates of Moscow
Oddometer: 45,399
Quote:
Originally Posted by genka View Post
60csx has been discontinued. Anyway it is a good example of Garmin's way of making things worse. Used 60csx are sold for $300+. Can you think of any other electronics holding or gaining in value? Initially Garmin aimed their products on enthusiasts and they had a lot of features and adjustments. Later, when GPS units gained wider acceptance Garmin methodically dumbed their devices down. Didn't they know the rule "Make something any idiot can use, and only an idiot will want to use it"? But regardless, even in it is current sorry state, Zumo is the only motorcycle specific GPS and it still has a number of qualities not found in any other single device. Garmin owns the market and the pricing reflects it.
When the 478 was discontinued, I bought a brand new one from West Marine for $500. Now they sell used for $650 on average.
__________________
I guess your get up and go needs a coffee. - Drif5
Drif10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 08:22 PM   #81
genka
SUV hater
 
genka's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD
Oddometer: 1,502
Yep. The 478 was released in 2004. Can you imagine a TV, a phone or a computer of this age having any value? And this unit sells for more than what it was new. In the past decade Garmin engineered new models mostly by removing functionality from both hardware and software. Gone hard buttons and lockable mount, map view customization and route import on most units.
It's just a matter of time before someone will make a ruggerized Android tablet with bright screen and someone else will write a good navigation software
Meanwhile, you can try a marine GPS, maybe it has all the necessary functions:
http://g.factoryoutletstore.com/deta...PSMAP-620.html
__________________
.

Форум мотоциклистов в США http://www.xytopok.net/mvnforum/listthreads?forum=31
genka is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 09:11 AM   #82
Mercury264
Once you go Triple...
 
Mercury264's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Masshole
Oddometer: 21,807
Quote:
Originally Posted by genka View Post
Yep. The 478 was released in 2004. Can you imagine a TV, a phone or a computer of this age having any value? And this unit sells for more than what it was new. In the past decade Garmin engineered new models mostly by removing functionality from both hardware and software. Gone hard buttons and lockable mount, map view customization and route import on most units.
It's just a matter of time before someone will make a ruggerized Android tablet with bright screen and someone else will write a good navigation software
Meanwhile, you can try a marine GPS, maybe it has all the necessary functions:
http://g.factoryoutletstore.com/deta...PSMAP-620.html
Someone is doing something like that via Kickstarter (IIRC) BUT instead of a just a simple GPS they added all manner of bells and whistles that I personally do not want or need, thus pushing the price up.
__________________
'12 Tiger 800XC
'07 TE510
'02 Sprint ST
'99 XR650L
'99 Speed Triple
Mercury264 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 09:53 AM   #83
genka
SUV hater
 
genka's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD
Oddometer: 1,502
Several Chinese companies make waterproof Android phone. They are inexpensive enough to be used only for navigation. But the question of a good software still remains.
__________________
.

Форум мотоциклистов в США http://www.xytopok.net/mvnforum/listthreads?forum=31
genka is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 10:07 AM   #84
Isorg
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Houston, Tx
Oddometer: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury264 View Post
Someone is doing something like that via Kickstarter (IIRC) BUT instead of a just a simple GPS they added all manner of bells and whistles that I personally do not want or need, thus pushing the price up.
http://www.meetearl.com/
__________________
2002 FZ1 Death by shipping accident
2007 VTX1300c
2007 FJR
Isorg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2013, 10:59 AM   #85
ssevy
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Southern Adirondacks
Oddometer: 766
Easy Map For Bikers app works great on my Galaxy S3 to see the local radar and satellites all in one place. I still sit down with my Gazetteers and plan trips writing on large index cards with a Sharpie. These go in my tank bag window and get flipped as needed.
I have used my older Nuvi GPS on the bike, and it was really handy for finding gas and food, etc., and allowed more spontaneity, but no way to upload routes, so it was limited.
While I recognize the convenience and power of the GPS technology, I sometimes think it can subtract from the riding experience rather than add. I find it is too easy to become so focused on the destination or next waypoint that you miss the ride itself. Maybe it is an age thing, but I find going old school with maps and slowing down and enjoying the ride with all of its surprises is actually more satisfying to me than having all of the electronics stuff. Granted, my favorite bike is my 95 Triumph steamer, so that may tell you something.
ssevy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2013, 02:14 PM   #86
macintosh
Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Location: Tallinn, Estonia
Oddometer: 34
http://www.goridergps.com/
180€ for 3.5" version and 300€ for 4.3" version. Everything in box to install to bike. Full EU map coverage adding US is not really rocket science. I would call this an alternative to Garmin/TomTom. Reasonably priced one.
macintosh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2013, 03:40 PM   #87
TeneRay
2>4
 
TeneRay's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Ohio
Oddometer: 1,652
My solution

Garmin car unit: Bought a 50LM for $80 at a Black Friday sale.
Ram Aquabox, Large: $50
Ram 50LM cradle: $15
Ram motorcycle mount: $30
Garmin hardwire power adapter: $10

It takes a little modifying to get the power cable through the cradle and Aquabox. There's some grinding involved. The plug for the unit makes the cradle bulge a little but it still stays secured. The reason for installing the cradle inside the Aquabox is so the GPS unit doesn't rattle around when you ride.

You essentially have a waterproof motorcycle navigation system for less than $200. Since the Garmin can detect power when it's on and and off through the power cable, hard wire the adapter into a switched wire. You won't have a need to physically turn the unit on and off, it will do it automatically.
TeneRay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 09:41 AM   #88
rustbucket
Gnarly Adventurer
 
rustbucket's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: New York, NY
Oddometer: 154
But for all that work, you don't have any way to get the voice prompts out of the Aquabox - the 50LM is speaker only, with no bluetooth or headphone jack. Even more so that in a car, I think voice guidance is a necessity for safety reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeneRay View Post
Garmin car unit: Bought a 50LM for $80 at a Black Friday sale.
Ram Aquabox, Large: $50
Ram 50LM cradle: $15
Ram motorcycle mount: $30
Garmin hardwire power adapter: $10

It takes a little modifying to get the power cable through the cradle and Aquabox. There's some grinding involved. The plug for the unit makes the cradle bulge a little but it still stays secured. The reason for installing the cradle inside the Aquabox is so the GPS unit doesn't rattle around when you ride.

You essentially have a waterproof motorcycle navigation system for less than $200. Since the Garmin can detect power when it's on and and off through the power cable, hard wire the adapter into a switched wire. You won't have a need to physically turn the unit on and off, it will do it automatically.
rustbucket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 06:18 PM   #89
HighTechCoonass OP
Living the Dream....
 
HighTechCoonass's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: land of the swamps!, Cajun Country LA
Oddometer: 2,457
Laugh

This biggest change in GPS recently is the field of view. All of the newer GPS's have a larger 3D field of view where you can actually see where the roads are to bypass a town ( i would estimate 3 miles deep with great road detail). The latest Iphone app has this (internal processor is more powerful). Without buying a unit and trying it out you have know way of knowing how well it works... unless you live in Chicago and you can visit the Garmin store.
__________________
Living the dream here in the good old USA! l
HighTechCoonass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2013, 07:18 AM   #90
genka
SUV hater
 
genka's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD
Oddometer: 1,502
I just found out that TomTom has reentered the motorcycle market. So there is a less expensive alternative:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...&tag=gt1net-20
__________________
.

Форум мотоциклистов в США http://www.xytopok.net/mvnforum/listthreads?forum=31
genka is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 03:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014