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Old 08-29-2013, 05:26 PM   #16
396
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Open primary & kickstart with small battery. Belt primary instead of chain. Probably 50 lbs+ right there. Could fab a light belt guard.
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Old 08-29-2013, 07:52 PM   #17
Armen OP
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Location: Jerseyland, USA
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Swapping

Here's the gag:
Planning on using a single, 6 piston Performance Machine caliper on an EBC rotor. And a single disc M/C from another HD.
logic?
HDs of that era used DOT 5 silicon based fluid. Everyone else used DOT 4 glycol based fluid. So, either use stock, period HD stuff or aftermarket stuff made for HDs. DOT 5 and 4 parts and fluid are ragingly incompatible.
Performance Machine makes bolt-on 6 pot calipers for the bike. Having just spent more hours than I care to admit to fabricating a bracket to mount a 4 pot Brembo to a late model Bonnie, I can tell you things move slower in real life than on TV. Those fucking chopper channel shows have made a million 'experts' out of people who can barely wipe their asses.
Most people saying stuff like 'just use a Buell chassis' don't understand that that is like saying 'just win a ground war against Russia'.
As to the comment that the aftermarket stuff is copies of Japanese sport bikes, it doesn't apply to PM. They make billet calipers and have for decades. I don't remember any billet factory Japanese calipers from that era.
The only way to use the 'supersport' calipers would be to use DOT 4 compatible master cylinders. This HD uses an integral M/C and throttle/switch housing, so much changing of stuff is in order. And the bike uses a 1" diameter handlebar, which no supersport bike does.
As it is, in simplest form this project will take tens of hours and consume thousands of dollars. That is with mostly bolt-on stuff. I don't want it to become hundreds of hours and tens of thousands of dollars. We just don't have that.
As to the comment that the bike specs were under 600 lbs, that would be measured at the Ad brochure. The same person probably still believes in the Easter bunny. Those numbers are at best, a lie.
This bike was weighed on a digital bike scale at 666 lbs with most of a tank of gas. I checked the scale with my own weight and it was pretty damn close.
For the record, the early single piston/sliding caliper HD stuff were craptastic at best. In 2000, HD went to sealed ball bearings in the wheels, 4 pot calipers, and larger diameter axles. In 2008 (?) they quietly went to Brembo calipers, but they still weigh as much as Rosy O'Donnel's butt.
Supertrapp ordered yesterday. M/C ordered today. Closing in on a deal on the caliper. Will order the rotor next week.
After the pipe install/jetting flog, then the front brake. Then maybe something simple like a wave rotor on the back.
Then the winter projects of lighter footpeg brackets, etc.
Should be a hoot. Removing dead weight is like taking a huge dump-very rewarding!
-Armen
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:17 PM   #18
plugeye
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Location: Garland, Texas
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plastic fenders.
plastic gas tank
buell wheels
7/8" aluminum bars with minimal switches
plastic headlight shell.
jap controls & brakes
aluminum swingarm
kickstart/ remove electric starter components
CDI, no battery
no steel covers, if it doesnt seal oil, just eliminate all of them.
with this you should be close to losing 100.
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Old 08-30-2013, 07:41 PM   #19
Armen OP
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progress

PM 6 pot Caliper and single disc master are on the way. I'll take a looksee at the caliper and see if we can use the narrow band rotor.
Guessing the brakes alone will be worth 10 lbs.
Supertrapp is on the way as well. Bike has an aftermarket 2-2 with almost no baffles now. Trapp is 2-1, so the crossover support (hunk of pipe) will go.
Not sure how much the pipe project will do, but another 10 lbs would be nice.
Guessing a Wave rotor would be next on the list. When I did one on my SV650, it was worth over a pound. Considering the HD discs, I'm guessing the weight loss will be more than that.
I don't think 100 lb loss is impossible.
All in good fun.
-Armen
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Old 09-01-2013, 07:36 PM   #20
Krasniewski
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Will be following with interest. I don't think I'll change anything on my bagger for weight savings, but I'm always amazed on how much everything weighs.
EDIT: Ok, I'd love a new front wheel and an open primary, both of which would save weight, but it'd really be done for the cool factor. Both are also pretty pricey.


Also, people might contribute more if you don't berate them for throwing out ideas. No need to be discourteous for spitballing during a brainstorm.

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Old 09-01-2013, 11:37 PM   #21
Lizrdbrth
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Is that 'Trapp double-walled?
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Old 09-02-2013, 06:09 AM   #22
Armen OP
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Trapp

I believe it is single wall. When it gets here I'll let you know.
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Old 09-02-2013, 06:16 AM   #23
Armen OP
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oil bag?

"Is there enough available real estate on a Dyna to go to a spun aluminum oil bag?"
Was the question.
Gotta say, the aluminum oil tanks look sexy. If it had a steel tank I'd be doing one.
On this series of bikes, the oil 'tank' is cast aluminum and lives under the trans. Less of a plumber's nightmare and no hot tank full of oil under your seat/between your legs. One of the reasons I wanted to use this bike as a starting point.
Right now I'm in the middle of trying to get a guy to make an aluminum gas tank for my 900SS Duc. He is supposed to start any day.
If that works out, I could see having both fenders made out of aluminum and even think about the gas tank.
One day at a time...
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Old 09-02-2013, 08:53 AM   #24
xrscooterman
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Location: Raleigh Area, NC
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Matrix Composite

You might take a look at matrix composite brakes for Harley Davidsons. They are advertised to be lighter.
Here is their web site:

http://www.matrixbrakes.com/harleyaftermarketparts.aspx

I have no experience with the above product, but it might be something to look at if you want to make the bike lighter.

As and alternative, a hot rodded, stripped down mid 90's Sportster can get down to about 450 lbs. with careful part selections, and a four cam motor responds well to modification.
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Old 09-02-2013, 09:08 AM   #25
xrscooterman
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Weight Reduction

Some other weight saving ideas:

Carbon fiber fenders are available for HD's.
Aluminum body shocks are good for a few pounds.
Lithium ion batteries are a bolt in.

Some people have indicated a chain drive conversion is lighter than the belt drive set up. I would think you would have to go to an Al rear sprocket for max. weight loss.
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Old 09-02-2013, 10:56 AM   #26
RedRaptor22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrscooterman View Post
Some other weight saving ideas:

Carbon fiber fenders are available for HD's.
Aluminum body shocks are good for a few pounds.
Lithium ion batteries are a bolt in.

Some people have indicated a chain drive conversion is lighter than the belt drive set up. I would think you would have to go to an Al rear sprocket for max. weight loss.
Chain drive is a good bit lighter, those pulleys are stupid heavy. But the main thing is that chain drive does'nt eat up nearly as much power and they tend to be a bit stronger.

Down side is the maintenance factor, clean adjust and lube every 4-500 and replace every 15-30k depending on how you maintain it, and aluminium sprockets have almost no lifespan on the street, there are hybrids with aluminium hubs and steel tooth rings, or there are a few that do custom steels that don't weight much more than aluminium.
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Old 09-02-2013, 11:16 AM   #27
joexr
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Belt is more efficient than chain. Belt is about 2% loss , chain is about 5 and shaft is about 12%.
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Old 09-02-2013, 01:48 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joexr View Post
Belt is more efficient than chain. Belt is about 2% loss , chain is about 5 and shaft is about 12%.
Well every measurement I've ever seen...depending of course on tension and length of the parts reads as follows 95-98% power transfer for chain, 90-95% power transfer for belt and shaft drives are all over the place with 80-95% power fransfer depending on lash and whether or not you have straight bevels or helical cut gears...and drive angle makes a huge difference too.

I do know I've never seen a belt drive freewheel when you spin it by hand like a chain will, purely unscientific way to tell there is more resistance there.

Another advantage is when it comes to repairs too, belts take 1/4 the time to fix than a shaft, chains take 1/4 the time that belts do.
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Old 09-02-2013, 03:22 PM   #29
Krasniewski
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Location: LA - Lower Alabama
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On a slightly related note:

Buell Ulysses Wheels - $400 (Lakeside)



http://sandiego.craigslist.org/esd/mcy/4041993365.html



Great price, if you can make even one of them work. I wonder if I could make those work on an FLH...

Krasniewski screwed with this post 09-02-2013 at 03:28 PM
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Old 09-02-2013, 05:38 PM   #30
Armen OP
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Stuff

Like the cleanliness and lack of maintenance of the belt.
Already planned on the LiFe battery. Did one on my Duc and saved 10 lbs, on my bud's BMW it saved 20.
Ex-G/F had an '89 Sporty. Prob shaved 50+ lbs off that. When I was done it was a pretty nice bike.
Kinda like the big twin thing for a sport-tourer. Seems to fit the goal better.
If you guys have leads on carbon fenders, I'd love to see them.
Having an aluminum gas tank made for the Duc now. If it works out, I'll talk to the guy about fenders and maybe a gas tank.
Waiting for the brake parts to arrive. That and trying to find my digital scale.
Trapp should be here this week.
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