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Old 11-06-2013, 07:29 AM   #46
laser17
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Thanks for sharing your knowledge in this matter MB. I for one have never rebuilt my own shocks, so its really nice to have someone take me through it.
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Old 11-06-2013, 09:22 AM   #47
motobene OP
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Originally Posted by laser17 View Post
Thanks for sharing your knowledge in this matter MB. I for one have never rebuilt my own shocks, so its really nice to have someone take me through it.
Nertz! I could use the business
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Old 11-06-2013, 10:19 AM   #48
laser17
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I'll have you do mine when you figure out the re gassing part using the OEM seal! (when it needs it) Dont go the schrader valve rout if at all possible to keep the factory look. (Its a $1200 shock - i'd pay extra for the OEM seal/look) Im sure this would appeal to others as well. Assuming you would have to make a custom tool, would give you a barrier of entry from the avg garage mechanic with a drill press. (not to mention the shimming secrets)
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Old 11-07-2013, 06:08 AM   #49
wilkinsonk
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motobene,

I'm generally a lurker in the trials forum. I wanted to thank you for taking the time to put together the extremely informative posts youve been doing. Between this one and the Gas Gas vibration thread, Im amazed at the level of detail you go into documenting the subject. Additionally, your thread on fabricating a different brake pedal and the subsequent rebuild of the bike certainly illustrates your skills. If I had to guess, Id say you run a small job shop? Anyway, thanks for writing up such great posts.

- Ken
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Old 11-08-2013, 06:26 AM   #50
motobene OP
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motobene,

I'm generally a lurker in the trials forum. I wanted to thank you for taking the time to put together the extremely informative posts youve been doing. Between this one and the Gas Gas vibration thread, Im amazed at the level of detail you go into documenting the subject. Additionally, your thread on fabricating a different brake pedal and the subsequent rebuild of the bike certainly illustrates your skills. If I had to guess, Id say you run a small job shop? Anyway, thanks for writing up such great posts.

- Ken

Ken:

Thanks. I do appreciate your comments! The level of detail you see comes pretty fast for me (experience). And I love to write. One professor in College said I should make a career of technical writing because I love to paint clear pictures with words.

I do this mostly for fun though I should be treating it more like a business, such as with the suspension work.

Daniel Pink in a new management book says the idea of finding your passion is BS. He says to simply look at what you already do, can't stop doing, or want to do more of. That is your passion. My passions are many, but at the center is machines and optimization of machines.

I'm a semi-retired mechanical engineer (mostly durable medical and industrial tools) with 40+ years of hands-on experience from construction to machining to welding to mechanics, etc. I've accumulated some really nice machine, welding, and other tools over the decades.

My shop is not a job shop first. It's a support shop to the ranch that happens also to be great for all sorts of other things, including moto maintenance and optimization. My 'job' is owning and managing a recreation and cattle ranch. The Buffalo Dream Ranch happens also to be a stellar trials riding area
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Old 11-08-2013, 06:35 AM   #51
motobene OP
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Originally Posted by laser17 View Post
I'll have you do mine when you figure out the re gassing part using the OEM seal! (when it needs it) Dont go the schrader valve rout if at all possible to keep the factory look. (Its a $1200 shock - i'd pay extra for the OEM seal/look) Im sure this would appeal to others as well. Assuming you would have to make a custom tool, would give you a barrier of entry from the avg garage mechanic with a drill press. (not to mention the shimming secrets)
When I re valved the 4RT Showa shock I was very happy to find a nice big Schrader valve sticking out of it! I have yet to machine one, but I'm scheming something. The alternative is to buy the needle tool. That I probably should do because a number of shocks do not use Schrader ports.

The actual guts of a Schrader are very compact. The bulky part become the fillers. The Reiger's port lies parallel to the shock body and very close!





But gosh, there are many options from Schrader for valve cores other than the typical ones used on cars, motos, and bicycles. The following pdf shows the many:

http://www.schraderinternational.com..._12-01-12.ashx

motobene screwed with this post 11-08-2013 at 06:49 AM
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Old 11-09-2013, 05:34 AM   #52
liviob
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The disassembled damper in the tray shows a very simple design similar to the Paioli damper. Did you need special tools to disassemble the damper? Personally i would use the gummy valve. Not because its better than a Schrader valve. Only because there probably is not enough room for the larger Shrader valve.
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Old 11-09-2013, 06:05 AM   #53
motobene OP
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Originally Posted by liviob View Post
The disassembled damper in the tray shows a very simple design similar to the Paioli damper. Did you need special tools to disassemble the damper? Personally i would use the gummy valve. Not because its better than a Schrader valve. Only because there probably is not enough room for the larger Shrader valve.
These type shocks (dampers) do not require special tools to disassemble. Dumping the nitrogen pressure will relax the pressure on the seal head, which can be pushed in to get access to the wire clip. Once the wire clip has been carefully removed, the shock shaft with seal head can be pulled out.

Whatever special tool there are just make the job easier.

You are right about the gummy valve. It is very simple and takes up little space. It does require special tools, however, to re charge the damper with nitrogen.

Other special tools can make to job better. For example, a vacuum chamber to remove gasses in solution from the oil before you reassemble the shock. I've never done that and it doesn't seem necessary. But like those people who swear by using nitrogen in their tires, even though air is 78% nitrogen, perhaps it is a little better.
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Old 11-09-2013, 07:18 AM   #54
liviob
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Originally Posted by motobene View Post
These type shocks (dampers) do not require special tools to disassemble. Dumping the nitrogen pressure will relax the pressure on the seal head, which can be pushed in to get access to the wire clip. Once the wire clip has been carefully removed, the shock shaft with seal head can be pulled out.

Whatever special tool there are just make the job easier.

You are right about the gummy valve. It is very simple and takes up little space. It does require special tools, however, to re charge the damper with nitrogen.

Other special tools can make to job better. For example, a vacuum chamber to remove gasses in solution from the oil before you reassemble the shock. I've never done that and it doesn't seem necessary. But like those people who swear by using nitrogen in their tires, even though air is 78% nitrogen, perhaps it is a little better.
I asked because the Reiger people said i would need to return the shock to them for service because servicing required special tools. They wouldn't say what the special tools were though. It looks like i have all of the special tools necessary for this damper. I wouldn't worry about a vacuum bleed on this damper. Just do a careful hand bleed and you should be fine. What is the factory setting for the nitrogen pressure?
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Old 11-10-2013, 04:59 AM   #55
motobene OP
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Originally Posted by liviob View Post
I asked because the Reiger people said i would need to return the shock to them for service because servicing required special tools. They wouldn't say what the special tools were though. It looks like i have all of the special tools necessary for this damper. I wouldn't worry about a vacuum bleed on this damper. Just do a careful hand bleed and you should be fine. What is the factory setting for the nitrogen pressure?
I came home late last night with a message on the answering machine from a suspension guy who said to call him. He said I was wrong to say in this post that no special tools were required and to call him.

He disassembled his Reiger a few months ago. I'll find out if the special tool is a preference or a necessity. I can't see any major difference between the Showa I just did and the Reiger, but let's see what he has to say.
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Old 11-10-2013, 07:38 PM   #56
jonnyc21
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Inquiering minds want to know...
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Old 11-11-2013, 05:51 AM   #57
motobene OP
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Inquiring minds want to know...
The latest info from the person I talked to:

The cap over the seal head is not pressed in like on many other shocks. It is, rather, right-hand threaded to the seal head. You need some kind of spanner wrench (or make one) to thread it off. Removal should be done before de gassing the shock or the seal head might turn in the body, making getting the cap off very tough.

Reiger has made this shock difficult to service. I can understand why they'd want to maintain control, but I believe servicing in Netherlands only, aside from the high purchase price, limits the non-OEM purchases of this excellent shock. Many riders don't like not having a domestic service option.

The special tool described to me was speculated about during the call, and had to do with re gassing the shock. The person had not directly seen the tool or the process, but knew of something similar used on - I think he said - a White Power shock. This person was the only person I know of -so far - to disassemble and reassemble a Reiger shock in North America. He said a needle-type filler doesn't work that close up against the shock body, and that Reiger uses some kind of fixture that clamps over the shock body to re gas the bladder accumulator and reinsert the two screws somehow through the fixture. Seems a lot of extra work to fill a shock with gas, but if true, it is definitely a barrier to servicing.

When I can get some dedicated time I'm going to find a slick solution around this obvious barrier. I don't like being told I can't do something! I'd strongly suggest not diving into this shock unless you have a spare shock as a backup and are high level in these matters, in knowledge, experience, and tools.

Reiger does not publish gas pressure or oil specs. I'm going to wait until I get deeper in before speculating.
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Old 12-08-2013, 04:42 PM   #58
liviob
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Thanks for the update. It is unfortunate that Reiger made this damper difficult to service. While i'm certain the Reiger shock works better than the stock Sachs shock. I will for now continue using it until i cannot service it again as it works well enough for my riding ability.
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