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Old 09-05-2013, 06:58 PM   #16
FloorPoor OP
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[QUOTE Turn the spine into an airbox?[/QUOTE]


Hmmm, interesting idea.
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Old 09-05-2013, 08:30 PM   #17
michael1968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorPoor View Post
Looks sweet, but how much does it weigh? How's the handling at high speed in the desert AND at low speed in the rocks? I've thought about doing this too.
It weighs 184 kg with a full tank of fuel (20 l) so about 170 dry, a good few kg more than a 640.

High speed is fantastic, it feels planted at ~150km/h on the dirt even without a steering dampener.

It turns like a bath tub is the tight stuff...

I just rebuilt the engine (2nd gear selector crapped it's self) and put in an aftermarket 11.5:1 piston meant for a DS650 quad, it should hopefully have a few more hp now.
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Old 09-05-2013, 09:37 PM   #18
Krasniewski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorPoor View Post
Turn the spine into an airbox?

Quote:
Hmmm, interesting idea.
Something I did on my KLR650 / Ninja 650 merge.




I'm not sure if it's the best thing to do engineering/performance-wise, but it worked out for me.
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Old 09-05-2013, 09:50 PM   #19
Schlug
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Originally Posted by zig06 View Post
Maybe I don't get this one, then again someone turned a sportster into an ADV bike and I didn't get that one either. Although I totally respect what he did and ended up with. And considering that it's something that you could never buy it made it that much more impressive.

In this case replacing a large single thumper with a large single thumper seems ... well... like a dog chasing his tail. But hey, I've suscribed so let me just sit back and see what happens, I may end up learning something!
It isn't as if the KTM plant and Rotax plant are equal motors. Show me a KTM 640 motor with 80,000 miles on it that hasn't had serious work done to it and still runs as strong as it did day one? Hell, show me one with 50,000 miles on it, period. You're also talking a skirtless piston in a high strung motor built for performance vs. a Rotax which is built for reliability. The KTM motor has more jam, in my experience-- which is admittedly one afternoon-- but is extremely vibey at highway speeds.




You'll have just as difficult a time finding a 650 Rotax that left someone stranded as you will finding an 80,000 mile 640 motor unmolested.

In one year I rode F650 Dakar from Windsor, Ontario to Death Valley and back, solo, and to Newfoundland and back, solo, and to North Carolina and back, solo, without ever once wondering if would start. The EFI is rudimentary and dead simple.

In nearly 40,000 miles the only mechanical I had was a dead radiator fan.



A YZ450 front end, sprung for the weight of the bike, and a well sorted Ohlins rear shock makes a hell of a difference. Still, the bike weighs a lot, the standing position is 'challenging' and the whole thing is too damn wide at the saddle.

I'd love to see that Rotax motor in a nicely set up KTM frame. Hell, I'll take my XR400 motor in a really nice modern aluminum frame with a great suspension.
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Old 09-06-2013, 09:55 PM   #20
FloorPoor OP
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^ Nice bike.

You smell what I'm steppin' in. A super smooth, reliable single in a bike that can travel, but still handle off road.

BMW had the right idea once, then promptly dropped the bike from it's lineup before it even had a chance to catch on.

KTM built an excellent chassis with the 640a, and put an high performance engine in, but unfortunately high performance=high maintenance.
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Old 09-06-2013, 10:02 PM   #21
FloorPoor OP
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Originally Posted by Krasniewski View Post
Something I did on my KLR650 / Ninja 650 merge.




I'm not sure if it's the best thing to do engineering/performance-wise, but it worked out for me.
That looks good, how well does it work?

Another project I've had my mind on for quite awhile. Versys engine in my KLR, but I want suspension too. Suspension, more than anything, is what has had me thinking about ditching my old reliable KLR (25,000 miles and no mechanical issues) and going with a 640a, but I want reliable along with my suspension.
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Old 09-08-2013, 02:13 AM   #22
Roadracer_Al
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This is something I suggest to people all the time: build the frame from scratch.

People say "oh, steel is expensive", but really, there's only about $60 worth of tube in a chassis.

People say "Oh, I won't be able to license it", but most states have a provision for licensing home-built vehicles (look at hot rods!)

People say "Oh, I don't know how to weld", but many communities have adult education or vocational training in the evenings.

People say "Oh, I don't own a machine shop", but almost every community has a machine shop - ask around about "job shops" -- they'll take on your low volume work. OR.... join TechShop if your community has one. Training and access to professional-level machinery for the win.

People say "Oh, I wouldn't know how to design a chassis", but you need to understand that you don't actually design one from scratch -- you copy one that you know works. In this case, measure the KTM frame, and build a copy that fits the engine of your dreams.

If you're totally not going to build your own frame, there are professional frame builders that will do the work for you and deliver a very nicely finished product. All you do is make a drawing of what you want, and they do the heavy lifting.
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Old 09-08-2013, 07:46 AM   #23
Dan Alexander
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There go most of my excuses
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Old 09-08-2013, 04:40 PM   #24
Whale Rider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadracer_Al View Post
This is something I suggest to people all the time: build the frame from scratch.

People say "oh, steel is expensive", but really, there's only about $60 worth of tube in a chassis.

People say "Oh, I won't be able to license it", but most states have a provision for licensing home-built vehicles (look at hot rods!)

People say "Oh, I don't know how to weld", but many communities have adult education or vocational training in the evenings.

People say "Oh, I don't own a machine shop", but almost every community has a machine shop - ask around about "job shops" -- they'll take on your low volume work. OR.... join TechShop if your community has one. Training and access to professional-level machinery for the win.

People say "Oh, I wouldn't know how to design a chassis", but you need to understand that you don't actually design one from scratch -- you copy one that you know works. In this case, measure the KTM frame, and build a copy that fits the engine of your dreams.
Well said that man.
there is not much that hasn't been done before study copy slightly change go for it.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/2880669...in/photostream


MORE PHOTOS ADDED



WR

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Old 09-08-2013, 04:49 PM   #25
FloorPoor OP
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Thanks for all the replies, many of them have been very informative. Now to start gathering parts and make plans.
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Old 09-09-2013, 03:34 AM   #26
DRjoe
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What you building there mr WR?
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Old 09-09-2013, 03:14 PM   #27
Whale Rider
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Originally Posted by DRjoe View Post
What you building there mr WR?

My interpretation of one of these

http://micapeak.com/bmw/gs/rally/pd2000/pd2000gs.htm

dam flickr I can get the photos to load. but there are more photos on the Flickr Page

I will put a couple of more recent photos on Flickr later DONE

I will start my own build thread when I am closer to the end.

I am not going to hijack this thread

WR

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Old 09-09-2013, 08:38 PM   #28
michael1968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whale Rider View Post
My interpretation of one of these

http://micapeak.com/bmw/gs/rally/pd2000/pd2000gs.htm
Nice one, always loved that bike.
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Old 09-10-2013, 05:00 AM   #29
Rufjeep
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadracer_Al View Post
This is something I suggest to people all the time: build the frame from scratch.

People say "oh, steel is expensive", but really, there's only about $60 worth of tube in a chassis.

People say "Oh, I won't be able to license it", but most states have a provision for licensing home-built vehicles (look at hot rods!)

People say "Oh, I don't know how to weld", but many communities have adult education or vocational training in the evenings.

People say "Oh, I don't own a machine shop", but almost every community has a machine shop - ask around about "job shops" -- they'll take on your low volume work. OR.... join TechShop if your community has one. Training and access to professional-level machinery for the win.

People say "Oh, I wouldn't know how to design a chassis", but you need to understand that you don't actually design one from scratch -- you copy one that you know works. In this case, measure the KTM frame, and build a copy that fits the engine of your dreams.

If you're totally not going to build your own frame, there are professional frame builders that will do the work for you and deliver a very nicely finished product. All you do is make a drawing of what you want, and they do the heavy lifting.
The only thing I would add is that it might be simpler to modify a steel tubed frame than start from scratch. The 640 would be a good starting point- your suspension is there, head tube, etc. Even if you chopped everything up, you would still have something to connect the dots to.
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Old 09-10-2013, 01:10 PM   #30
Roadracer_Al
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Originally Posted by Rufjeep View Post
The only thing I would add is that it might be simpler to modify a steel tubed frame than start from scratch.
There are two ways to look at this: A) replace as little of the donor chassis as possible, and B) replace as much of the donor chassis as possible. There are upsides and downsides to both.

With plan A, there is always the temptation to try to preserve a lot of the original bits, which often causes a lot of head scratching and extra work to make the gas tank/side panels/footpegs/kickstand etc. etc. work with the mods. I've spent hours and hours moving brackets and tabs around just to make tanks and side panels line up right.

This particular project MIGHT work well with this method because the motors are similarly sized.

With Plan B, you take your headstock with the factory-stamped VIN number (and associated title documents!!) and move them over to a full new frame (this side-steps the need for home-built status) and allows you to produce exactly what you want with fewer compromises on important stuff like chain lines, and a bit less head-scratching, IMHO.

Yes, it's a bit more work, but you get a "cleaner" product at the end.... i.e. fewer odd/multiple spacers, fewer extensions on brackets, etc.

a
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