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Old 09-06-2013, 04:21 PM   #1
beltfed72 OP
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2007 Sportcity 250...is the debil

Alright, here goes:

I buy this 2007 SC250 on craigslist, thinking I got a good deal at 1K. It`s got 26K on it, but it seemed fine to me, even started it cold and got no smoke. I was on my way home from aformentioned "good deal" when I hit a big bump in the road and noticed I had no lights, and my dash/speedo went dead but kept on riding just fine. I pulled it into my garage, popped the battery cover off and replaced a blown fuse. The lights came back, and dash was working fine but it wouldnt start. It just turns over and over, so I changed the plug and fuel. I also charged the battery (out of the bike) still no go. I checked the coil and it`s not getting fire, my test light comes on only when I first turn on the key while the fuel pump primes. I have absolutely been beating my head against the wall for almost a week now. I have stripped it to the BONE. I`l bet there`s 75+ plastic on that thing. I found a shorted wire in one of the tail-lights. I thought I was done at that point...nope. I have checked everywhere for places that I may have a short to ground or wire rubbing on the frame, but no luck. I`m going crazy here, and I guess the thing that is bugging me most is how damn fun that thing was to ride. does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks y`all
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Old 09-06-2013, 04:36 PM   #2
JerryH
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Do you mean it has no power to the primary side of the coil, or there is no spark? If there are no loose connections and no blown fuses, there are 3, maybe 4 possibilities. If you get power TO the coil, but no spark, it is probably the coil. If you don't get any power to the coil, it could be either the CDI unit, the pulse pickup on the flywheel, or if the stator uses a dedicated winding just for the ignition, as my Stella does, that could be bad. But that is unlikely on a newer scooter, the Stella is an ancient design, the ignition will not run off the battery, it requires AC directly from the stator. There are various ways to test these things. The service manual should explain how. The coil can be tested for resistance with an ohmmeter, from the low voltage wire to ground, ground to spark plug terminal, and low voltage terminal to spark terminal. If you get no reading the coil is bad. If you get a reading, you will need the manual to see what it should be. Don't try to test the CDI box or pickup coil without the book, they are easily damaged.
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Old 09-06-2013, 05:36 PM   #3
beltfed72 OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
Do you mean it has no power to the primary side of the coil, or there is no spark? If there are no loose connections and no blown fuses, there are 3, maybe 4 possibilities. If you get power TO the coil, but no spark, it is probably the coil. If you don't get any power to the coil, it could be either the CDI unit, the pulse pickup on the flywheel, or if the stator uses a dedicated winding just for the ignition, as my Stella does, that could be bad. But that is unlikely on a newer scooter, the Stella is an ancient design, the ignition will not run off the battery, it requires AC directly from the stator. There are various ways to test these things. The service manual should explain how. The coil can be tested for resistance with an ohmmeter, from the low voltage wire to ground, ground to spark plug terminal, and low voltage terminal to spark terminal. If you get no reading the coil is bad. If you get a reading, you will need the manual to see what it should be. Don't try to test the CDI box or pickup coil without the book, they are easily damaged.
Thanks Jerry, I appreciate the input. I am getting power to the coil only for about 2 seconds after I turn the key to the on position. when the fuel pump is finished priming, the test light goes dead, even if starter is engaged. I found wires/plugs/looms full of oil, especially to the voltage regulator. That plug was covered in oil, but that shouldn`t stop my coil from getting power, should it? Also, does the starter relay supply power to the coil while running? I need to pick up another ohm-meter, mine`s trashed. I thought I might get lucky and find a rubbed through wire. Also, does this scooter need more than 12V to start? If so, that`s another possibility as the battery is dropping under 12V while i`m trying to start it. Thanks again, I really do appreciate any further input...this is my sole source of transportation atm.
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Old 09-06-2013, 07:53 PM   #4
beltfed72 OP
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Originally Posted by Dabears View Post
Why are your wires full of oil? Doesn't that seem a bit unusual? It's certainly possible that this could be causing a short. You realize coils are oil filled, right?. Could this be the source of the oil?

If it was running great when you got it don't assume it was an existing problem, could have just been coincidence. Sounds like a nice scooter, and will be again when you find your problem. Best of luck with it.
I did not know that coils are filled with oil, I have been wrenching on stuff my whole life. I guess that`s why transformers are full of oil as well. I heard one blow up about 10 years ago from almost 2 miles away, shook my windows. I don`t think the guy knew there was a problem at all, as a matter of fact I`m almost sure I caused it when I hit that hole in the road. I absolutely love this scooter, it`s not like any I`ve ridden. I liked my Derbi 150 a good bit, until this one. I`m doing my best to be patient, but all of the wiring seems so brittle to me. The wire bundle with the most oil in it is coming out of the engine (guessing flywheel) and that`s not a good thing. I also noticed that my wires are so tightly tie strapped to each other then to the frame and stuck between pinch points. This can`t be factory, or maybe they just had a bad day. My battery being below 12v after cranking for only a few seconds concerns me also. Something is SERIOUSLY drawing down on it. I did notice that only one headlight at a time works, is this normal or do you think I may have a bad flasher relay? I noticed you`re in Atlanta burbs, as am I. I live in Cumming and will gladly pay somebody for some assistance with this thing. I`ve also heard Sportcity 250s are notorious for VR problems.
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Old 09-07-2013, 10:05 AM   #5
beltfed72 OP
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I just checked Batteries Plus, and apparently the battery should be a 180CCA and I`ve currently got a 120CCA battery. I wondered why my voltage dropped so low when trying to start. I`m figuring that the guy I bought it from who`d recently purchased an FZ6 just took the better of the two batteries. If I stripped this thing to the bone over a battery I just may go stand in traffic...
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Old 09-07-2013, 11:03 AM   #6
cdwise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beltfed72 View Post
I just checked Batteries Plus, and apparently the battery should be a 180CCA and I`ve currently got a 120CCA battery. I wondered why my voltage dropped so low when trying to start. I`m figuring that the guy I bought it from who`d recently purchased an FZ6 just took the better of the two batteries. If I stripped this thing to the bone over a battery I just may go stand in traffic...
FWIW, we had similar issues with the Burgman 400 we used to own. It also turned out to be the wrong battery in the bike. Ironically, it wasn't a Suzuki dealer who figured it out but the local home garage mechanic.
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Old 09-07-2013, 04:09 PM   #7
beltfed72 OP
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FWIW, we had similar issues with the Burgman 400 we used to own. It also turned out to be the wrong battery in the bike. Ironically, it wasn't a Suzuki dealer who figured it out but the local home garage mechanic.
I am still in re-assembly mode...wow. I have zero fingerprints for sure, and every bone in my body aches from the level of contortioinism required to put it back together. I`m certainly glad I didn`t walk away from it for a few weeks...I`d have no clue how to re-assemble this. I have 3 zip-lock sandwich bags half full of hardware, at least a pound of screws. I have decided not to even attempt to fire it up until it`s back together, otherwise it would never make it to the shop to get fixed. I guess there were two Sportcity 250 batteries, 2006/2007 12B-SB and the 12-SB for 2009 on. My new battery is much fatter, and will barely squeeze into the tray. It has 160cca as opposed to the 12B-SB 120cca. I sincerely hope this lack of voltage is the issue. It doesn`t surprise me one bit that the dealer couldn`t or wouldn`t figure out your Suzuki. I have bought several bikes from an un-named dealer here in Atlanta and they used to work on Aprilia (still sell them) but told me to figure it out (basically) They`ll never see a dime from me again, same for AF1. I called (after several attempts by email) to try and figure out what parts I needed to order and spoke to a really nice guy whose name escapes me. After I tried a few things he suggested, I called back to try and speak with him and some flamer named Steve got on the phone and told me he was too busy selling an RSV4 and to call back after 5 (knowing full well they close at 5) I never even asked for him, he just decided he needed to tell somebody how important he was in relation to my old Sportcity. I know these guys are busy, and I wasn`t looking for any magic from anybody, just some instructions on how to pay them some money for needed parts.
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Old 09-07-2013, 06:52 PM   #8
JerryH
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I would try jump starting it from a car, or better yet, one of those jump starter packs. I got one of those when they first came out, and have had several since. Don't know how I would live with it. It is a portable 12V power source strong enough to start a car.


You will need a wiring schematic to trace it down. I have seen bikes wired 100 different ways. Something, whether it is the stator coil direct, or through the R/R, charges the CDI unit. When the flywheel hits a certain point, it triggers a pulse sensor that causes the CDI to discharge to the coil. You will only have voltage to the coil during that very brief time when the trigger on the flywheel passes the sensor. If the CDI is digital, and on an '07 I'm assuming it is, it can do all sorts of weird things. Again, you will need a service manual before testing anything. Electronic parts are extremely fragile, and can be easily destroyed by grounding the wrong thing, or a momentary high resistance, like when you connect wires while they are hot. If oil leaked from the coil, it should be obvious. I would look for the source of the oil.
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Old 09-08-2013, 07:46 AM   #9
beltfed72 OP
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Well...damn, just damn. It wasn`t the battery, I don`t have any clue where to go next. If anyone has ever seen the "workshop manual" for this model, you know as well as I do it might as well be a comic book written in Chinese by a blind child with touretts...on acid. I really do appreciate y`alls advice but I`m starting to feel like the maiden voyage may have been my last. That is extremely disheartening, did this thing REALLY need to be this complex to work correctly? Thanks Magneto Marelli or whomever...back to my Chef-Boyardee I guess.
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Old 09-08-2013, 08:23 AM   #10
Warney
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Aprilia Owners Manuals below.
http://www.serviceaprilia.com/public/lum/index.asp

Link to Service Manual see post #9.
http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...-Sportcity-250

Warney screwed with this post 09-08-2013 at 08:33 AM
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:03 AM   #11
beltfed72 OP
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Thanks a million, I`m sure that`s got enough info for me to get to where I need to go. It must be a pretty big file, still downloading. I will update in a day or two, my fingers are trashed and can`t take anymore atm...lol. Thanks again.
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Old 09-08-2013, 10:18 PM   #12
JerryH
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If the engine is mechanically ok, then it isn't that bad, especially since it is a carbed engine and doesn't have a fortune in electronics that can go bad. Troubleshooting electrical problems is actually easy, it is just a step by step process of elimination. The most complex thing it should have on it is a CDI box. And that is only if it is digital. Other than that it's not much different than a 50 year old Vespa. Now if it were fuel injected, I'd be worried. I actually had some issues finding an ignition problem on my Stella, because it was SIMPLER than I first thought it was. True stone age technology. I love it. Now if it were just better quality, like the Vespa that it is a copy of.
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Old 09-09-2013, 06:42 AM   #13
beltfed72 OP
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Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
If the engine is mechanically ok, then it isn't that bad, especially since it is a carbed engine and doesn't have a fortune in electronics that can go bad. Troubleshooting electrical problems is actually easy, it is just a step by step process of elimination. The most complex thing it should have on it is a CDI box. And that is only if it is digital. Other than that it's not much different than a 50 year old Vespa. Now if it were fuel injected, I'd be worried. I actually had some issues finding an ignition problem on my Stella, because it was SIMPLER than I first thought it was. True stone age technology. I love it. Now if it were just better quality, like the Vespa that it is a copy of.
Oh how I wish what you just said were true of my scooter...it`s EFI. Dang, even it were an early type injection like throttle body I`d do back-flips, but this things got some kinda pulse injection system. I have taken all of the screws apart on this thing, I mean SKELETONIZED and re-assembled twice. Even if I don`t get this one running again (which I will) I`ll still buy another SC250. I can see now, that the all too common neglect of regular maintenance is the culprit here. It`s really a good riding machine, and I`m not really a scooter guy. I`ve been riding 35 years, damn, that`s actually true...lol. I have an Aprilia tech coming out this am, yeah I know...we`ll see. Thanks again guys, wish Klavinator would chime in here too.
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Old 09-09-2013, 03:11 PM   #14
JerryH
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The problem with FI systems is that the ignition system is usually controlled by the same computer that controls the fuel injection (my '85 fuel injected Goldwing is that way, but it uses an early analog computer that is far less complicated than todays stuff) They use microprocessors, and are not usually something that can be tested at home, even with a manual. These are digital electronics as opposed to electrics which can be checked with a simple multimeter. a dealer would probably be your best bet. This is the reason I would like to unload my Zuma 125, I foresee something similar happening to it down the road somewhere.
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Old 09-11-2013, 11:39 AM   #15
cdwise
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Checking the kill switch is a good idea. Bad kill switches have been known to happen on Vespas particularly the 250 which shares a lot of the same parts as the Sports City. Some folks have found corrosion on it that flipping back and forth a dozen times seems to clean, others have had to replace it. Seems more of a problem in the UK models than the US ones but that maybe because they teach folks in the UK MSF courses not to use it except in an emergency while they tend to teach to use it more often in the US MSF courses.
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