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Old 09-09-2013, 06:42 AM   #16
beltfed72 OP
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Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
If the engine is mechanically ok, then it isn't that bad, especially since it is a carbed engine and doesn't have a fortune in electronics that can go bad. Troubleshooting electrical problems is actually easy, it is just a step by step process of elimination. The most complex thing it should have on it is a CDI box. And that is only if it is digital. Other than that it's not much different than a 50 year old Vespa. Now if it were fuel injected, I'd be worried. I actually had some issues finding an ignition problem on my Stella, because it was SIMPLER than I first thought it was. True stone age technology. I love it. Now if it were just better quality, like the Vespa that it is a copy of.
Oh how I wish what you just said were true of my scooter...it`s EFI. Dang, even it were an early type injection like throttle body I`d do back-flips, but this things got some kinda pulse injection system. I have taken all of the screws apart on this thing, I mean SKELETONIZED and re-assembled twice. Even if I don`t get this one running again (which I will) I`ll still buy another SC250. I can see now, that the all too common neglect of regular maintenance is the culprit here. It`s really a good riding machine, and I`m not really a scooter guy. I`ve been riding 35 years, damn, that`s actually true...lol. I have an Aprilia tech coming out this am, yeah I know...we`ll see. Thanks again guys, wish Klavinator would chime in here too.
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Old 09-09-2013, 07:17 AM   #17
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Go back to your earlier post:

"I checked the coil and it`s not getting fire, my test light comes on only when I first turn on the key while the fuel pump primes."

Don't overthink this thing.

If I understand your problems, they began when you hit a big bump. You had electrical issues that have impacted at minimum your lights and your starting circuit. You replaced a fuse and your lights came back on, but the bike won't start. You also noted you have oil all over your wires.

Yes, you may have FI issues, but it's not relevant until you sort your coil issue. This could be a simple thing.

Some possibilities to ponder- is there a kickstand cutoff? Is there a kill switch on the handlebars that has gotten set to off? Could the kill switch or the ignition switch be faulty or perhaps have a loose wire from hitting the bump? Do you have to engage the brakes for the engine to start (pretty common on scooters)? Could a wire have gotten pinched by the seat or suspension from hitting the bump? Are there any hack jobs on the factory wiring where the previous owner patched something in that could be bumping metal?

First isolate whether your issue is fuel, air, electric. If any one is bad fix it before you worry about the others.
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Old 09-09-2013, 03:11 PM   #18
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The problem with FI systems is that the ignition system is usually controlled by the same computer that controls the fuel injection (my '85 fuel injected Goldwing is that way, but it uses an early analog computer that is far less complicated than todays stuff) They use microprocessors, and are not usually something that can be tested at home, even with a manual. These are digital electronics as opposed to electrics which can be checked with a simple multimeter. a dealer would probably be your best bet. This is the reason I would like to unload my Zuma 125, I foresee something similar happening to it down the road somewhere.
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Old 09-11-2013, 11:39 AM   #19
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Checking the kill switch is a good idea. Bad kill switches have been known to happen on Vespas particularly the 250 which shares a lot of the same parts as the Sports City. Some folks have found corrosion on it that flipping back and forth a dozen times seems to clean, others have had to replace it. Seems more of a problem in the UK models than the US ones but that maybe because they teach folks in the UK MSF courses not to use it except in an emergency while they tend to teach to use it more often in the US MSF courses.
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Old 09-11-2013, 03:09 PM   #20
beltfed72 OP
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I guess I need a throttle body assy. They`re almost 500, and I`ll burn it in my cul-de-sac for that. Anyone kmow where I might find a used one? I posted a WTB ad on here, but I`m not sure how many of these nightmares are even still around.
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Old 09-11-2013, 05:00 PM   #21
JerryH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beltfed72 View Post
I guess I need a throttle body assy. They`re almost 500, and I`ll burn it in my cul-de-sac for that. Anyone kmow where I might find a used one? I posted a WTB ad on here, but I`m not sure how many of these nightmares are even still around.
What makes you need a throttle body assembly? They are usually the most reliable parts on a fuel injected engine. It is usually the fuel pump or the ECU that fails. The ECU controls the fuel pump, throttle body, which includes an injector, and the ignition. $500 is considerably more than a new carb, and carbs can be easily and cheaply cleaned and repaired
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:15 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by beltfed72 View Post
I guess I need a throttle body assy. They`re almost 500, and I`ll burn it in my cul-de-sac for that. Anyone kmow where I might find a used one? I posted a WTB ad on here, but I`m not sure how many of these nightmares are even still around.
Why guess? Spend $70-80 bucks on a diagnostic to find out for sure. FYI a good running condition SC 250 easily sells for mid $2,000. My brother recently sold his 2009 Sports City 250 with topcase & windshield for $3,500 approx. 6,000 miles. He was bought for his former fiancée and she rode it for the 7 months between purchase and their split, well maintained during that time period. Frankly, he got more than I would have expected but it did have OEM windshield and topcase and all of it was in perfect condition.
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Old 09-12-2013, 07:07 PM   #23
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The problem I see here is that if it were carbed, and had a conventional electrical system, it would be easy to diagnose and repair yourself. Everybody raving about how great fuel injection is seems to miss this point.
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Old 09-13-2013, 08:33 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
The problem I see here is that if it were carbed, and had a conventional electrical system, it would be easy to diagnose and repair yourself. Everybody raving about how great fuel injection is seems to miss this point.
Get a life, we ALL know your view on carb vs FI. So far I've felt a little sorry for you but this has gotten ridiculous. The OP bought a scooter that has problems for less than half what it would be worth if it didn't have the issue he's experiencing.

Diagnosing most FI issues is pretty damned easy - take it to someone with a reader, plug it in and see what it says is wrong.

Finding a short is a PIA regardless of what type of electrical system it has on it. There are only 10,600,000 hits on google for troubleshooting motorcycle electrical problems. Hint the majority aren't anything to do with fuel injection. Tests like the ones on http://www.dansmc.com/electricaltesting.htm work on every bike I know of whether regardless of the electrical system on the bike. That's how they tracked down one on my Scarabeo which turned out not to be electrical after all but a problem with the factory security alarm that was preventing the scoot from starting. Dealer who diagnosed it confirmed by swapping the alarm out temporarily with one from another scoot. Problem solved. Oh, that same alarm system was used on both the carbed and fuel injected version of the scoot.

If it is the voltage regulator check http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...-or-electrical

Also a thread on brake switch failing causing inability to start the SC http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...rts+city+start

cdwise screwed with this post 09-13-2013 at 09:00 AM
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Old 09-13-2013, 11:27 AM   #25
beltfed72 OP
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Get a life, we ALL know your view on carb vs FI. So far I've felt a little sorry for you but this has gotten ridiculous. The OP bought a scooter that has problems for less than half what it would be worth if it didn't have the issue he's experiencing.

Diagnosing most FI issues is pretty damned easy - take it to someone with a reader, plug it in and see what it says is wrong.

Finding a short is a PIA regardless of what type of electrical system it has on it. There are only 10,600,000 hits on google for troubleshooting motorcycle electrical problems. Hint the majority aren't anything to do with fuel injection. Tests like the ones on http://www.dansmc.com/electricaltesting.htm work on every bike I know of whether regardless of the electrical system on the bike. That's how they tracked down one on my Scarabeo which turned out not to be electrical after all but a problem with the factory security alarm that was preventing the scoot from starting. Dealer who diagnosed it confirmed by swapping the alarm out temporarily with one from another scoot. Problem solved. Oh, that same alarm system was used on both the carbed and fuel injected version of the scoot.

If it is the voltage regulator check http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...-or-electrical

Also a thread on brake switch failing causing inability to start the SC http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...rts+city+start

Thanks for the links man, mucho appreciated. Breckenridge, huh? I wish I was back in Summit co. drinking REAL Fat tire watching the Aspen trees go crazy. What a terrible assault on the olfactory senses Houston must be after a period in Co. I`m pretty sure this things possessed, Matt Barr and Aprilia tech here in Atl has it at his shop now. He`s sure it`s the TB/ECU assy. and I cant find any used. I cant find anybody parting a scarabeo or sportcity 250...anywhere. Maybe that`s what I oughtta do with mine.
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Old 09-13-2013, 04:21 PM   #26
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Hope you get it sorted. It took some time with my 2007 Scarabeo 500 but that was complicated by the "mods" made by the previous owner who spliced in a stereo, changed the mapping with a power commander chip and some other things that I had undone. I ended up trading it in for a NOS 2009 model with full warranty and got almost what I paid for it as a trade-in. Perils of buying used but our Sports City has been a good workhorse for my husband and so. So much so that I'm seriously considering riding it in the Scooter Cannonball 2014 instead of my Vespa GTS 250 (same engine, small wheels) since its starting in Alaska on who knows what sort of roads.

FYI, Scarabeo doesn't come in a 250 at least in the US. Sports City shares the same engine as the BV 250 and Vespa GTS/GTV 250.

Yeah, I prefer Breckenridge but work/family requires time in Houston as well. Aspen haven't changed in Breck yet but shouldn't be too much longer and with luck I'll be riding the BV back up there in a couple of weeks.
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Old 09-13-2013, 05:59 PM   #27
JerryH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdwise View Post
Get a life, we ALL know your view on carb vs FI. So far I've felt a little sorry for you but this has gotten ridiculous. The OP bought a scooter that has problems for less than half what it would be worth if it didn't have the issue he's experiencing.

Diagnosing most FI issues is pretty damned easy - take it to someone with a reader, plug it in and see what it says is wrong.

Finding a short is a PIA regardless of what type of electrical system it has on it. There are only 10,600,000 hits on google for troubleshooting motorcycle electrical problems. Hint the majority aren't anything to do with fuel injection. Tests like the ones on http://www.dansmc.com/electricaltesting.htm work on every bike I know of whether regardless of the electrical system on the bike. That's how they tracked down one on my Scarabeo which turned out not to be electrical after all but a problem with the factory security alarm that was preventing the scoot from starting. Dealer who diagnosed it confirmed by swapping the alarm out temporarily with one from another scoot. Problem solved. Oh, that same alarm system was used on both the carbed and fuel injected version of the scoot.

If it is the voltage regulator check http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...-or-electrical

Also a thread on brake switch failing causing inability to start the SC http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...rts+city+start
I have a life, and a good part of it involves riding, driving and working on motorcycles and cars. I am a mechanic, not a computer technician. Not only is working on this electronic crap not easy, it is no fun either, and the parts cost is ridiculous. My Zuma 125 has been up for sale for over a week, and if it doesn't sell for a reasonable price, I have a dealer willing to take it in trade for either a SYM HD200 or RV200. I will lose money, but I will have a scooter that is both freeway legal, and has no electronics. Having a vehicle with electronics just kills the emotional attachment I get from purely mechanical vehicles. My Stella is the least reliable of my three scooters, but it is the one I would keep if I had to get rid of two of them.
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Old 09-13-2013, 06:07 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
I have a life, and a good part of it involves riding, driving and working on motorcycles and cars. I am a mechanic, not a computer technician. Not only is working on this electronic crap not easy, it is no fun either, and the parts cost is ridiculous. My Zuma 125 has been up for sale for over a week, and if it doesn't sell for a reasonable price, I have a dealer willing to take it in trade for either a SYM HD200 or RV200. I will lose money, but I will have a scooter that is both freeway legal, and has no electronics. Having a vehicle with electronics just kills the emotional attachment I get from purely mechanical vehicles. My Stella is the least reliable of my three scooters, but it is the one I would keep if I had to get rid of two of them.
Sounds like you need to step up your game jerry, "mechanics" are going the way of the 8-track tape...hope you can see the light at the end of your career or it's liable to be turned off for you.

Sorry man, thats just the way it goes.
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Old 09-13-2013, 06:45 PM   #29
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I'm not sure about the mechanic part.
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Old 09-14-2013, 12:25 AM   #30
JerryH
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My official job title is "fleet services technician" and I do have to work on this crap, but it is not fun, plus they have a fortune in diagnostic equipment I don't have. But it's OK, my "career" ends next March 30th. I then plan to supplement my retirement income by working on vintage cars part time. I have already built a reputation in that field, and most people who do that kind of thing charge a lot more than I will. Around here (probably just like anywhere else) vintage car mechanics don't care a thing about what they are doing, just like new car "technicians", and just see it as a way to rip off vintage car owners.
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