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Old 10-11-2013, 09:24 AM   #91
Paulvt1
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Indeed. A seriously great bike overlooked by many.

I do hope there is a refresh - it may put the bike on potential buyers radar. It would be a crying shame if something as good as the S10 was just allowed to fade away.
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Old 10-11-2013, 10:51 AM   #92
ballheadknuckle
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Originally Posted by Paulvt1 View Post
I do hope there is a refresh
Be careful with that, that refresh might let it fade away in the crosstourer direction
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Old 10-11-2013, 11:19 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by lukasteam View Post
I think Yamaha should do absolutely nothing except uncork it straight from the factory ( that's what third generation re-flash does ) and maybe 21"-18" wheels ,but that's nit picking .

OK I will bite. What is the third generation re-flash?

I am familiar with the second generation re-flash, but I don't get out much.
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Old 10-11-2013, 11:34 AM   #94
Paulvt1
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Originally Posted by ballheadknuckle View Post
Be careful with that, that refresh might let it fade away in the crosstourer direction
I hope not. They have flopped lower than whale shit over here.

I'm hoping that the S10 gets updated to remain competitive with the GS - which is still the perceived class leader, and is a sales success due to that perception.

As sports bike sales are heading ever south - even here in the UK, which was sports bike central for many a year - then i hope that development budgets can be allocated to bikes like the S10 and the class will be richer for it.
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Old 10-11-2013, 01:49 PM   #95
AlsoRan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William42 View Post
OK I will bite. What is the third generation re-flash?

I am familiar with the second generation re-flash, but I don't get out much.
I learned recently that there is a lot of confusion about this because someone started naming these re-flashes incorrectly. There is not a "Gen-1" or "Gen-3" etc but instead:

Original: Stock
The first re-flash: Gen-2
The second re-flash: Gen-2 "upgrade"

They have there differences but the bike runs good no matter which one, it just improves a little with each upgrade.

In comparison I recently rode a new WC BMW, now it only had one "mode" available because it was a rental bike, but to me it compared closest to the first re-flash sport mode for the Super T just add the clunky shifting of the BMW.
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Old 10-11-2013, 06:32 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by AlsoRan View Post
I learned recently that there is a lot of confusion about this because someone started naming these re-flashes incorrectly. There is not a "Gen-1" or "Gen-3" etc but instead:

Original: Stock
The first re-flash: Gen-2
The second re-flash: Gen-2 "upgrade"

They have there differences but the bike runs good no matter which one, it just improves a little with each upgrade.

...........
I dunno where you got that from. Perhaps you could enlighten us but the rest of us only know of stock, obviously. The original flash (not re-flash as you put it) which became Gen1 only when it the next revision was announced. The revision being called Gen2.

So:

Stock,
Gen 1, T and S virtually (if not totally) identical and,
Gen 2, T restored and throttle ramp increased.

There is no Gen 3

I appreciate that someone else may use a different numbering system but they are alone in this and out of step with everyone else.
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Old 10-11-2013, 06:36 PM   #97
GrahamD
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Originally Posted by Old Git Ray View Post
I dunno where you got that from. Perhaps you could enlighten us but the rest of us only know of stock, obviously. The original flash (not re-flash as you put it) which became Gen1 only when it the next revision was announced. The revision being called Gen2.

So:

Stock,
Gen 1, T and S virtually (if not totally) identical and,
Gen 2, T restored and throttle ramp increased.

There is no Gen 3

I appreciate that someone else may use a different numbering system but they are alone in this and out of step with everyone else.
I kind of go with the Gen 3 flash as the roll your own set up. (whatever Gen 3 you want).
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Old 10-11-2013, 07:09 PM   #98
twinrider
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Originally Posted by Paulvt1 View Post
I hope not. They have flopped lower than whale shit over here.

I'm hoping that the S10 gets updated to remain competitive with the GS - which is still the perceived class leader, and is a sales success due to that perception.

As sports bike sales are heading ever south - even here in the UK, which was sports bike central for many a year - then i hope that development budgets can be allocated to bikes like the S10 and the class will be richer for it.
With a Gen II flash the bike is awesome as is. I rode my friend's LC GS back to back with my S10 and could not really tell any difference in engine performance on the twisty back roads we were riding. I can see how Yamaha would shift a lot more if they fixed the fueling from the start and made cruise and ESA optional. But the current bike is excellent. Lots of people are missing out, their loss...
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Old 10-11-2013, 07:09 PM   #99
AlsoRan
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Originally Posted by Old Git Ray View Post
I dunno where you got that from. Perhaps you could enlighten us but the rest of us only know of stock, obviously. The original flash (not re-flash as you put it) which became Gen1 only when it the next revision was announced. The revision being called Gen2.

So:

Stock,
Gen 1, T and S virtually (if not totally) identical and,
Gen 2, T restored and throttle ramp increased.

There is no Gen 3

I appreciate that someone else may use a different numbering system but they are alone in this and out of step with everyone else.
I'm not making this up so not using a "different" numbering system. It came about through direct communication with ECUnleashed about my request for a custom flash involving what I thought was Gen-1 and Gen-2 maps. This led to a host of problems because of the use of "Gen-1" which does not exist in their documentation about any flash. There is only Gen-2 and Gen-2 "Upgrade", and everyone including me references Gen-1 but again it's not on their radar. You go from Stock to Gen-2 to Gen-2 Upgrade. Or translate from our verbage to theirs:

Our term Their term
Stock Stock
Gen-1 = Gen-2
Gen-2 = Gen-2 "upgrade"

I know it's crazy sounding but this was a BIG issue that created a mixup on my custom flash.

So not alone in this if wanting to get things done right. But I agree most understand the Gen-1 reference including me so thats ok just don't us it on ECUnleashed.

I guess there is a Gen-3 which is what I have, Gen-2 "upgrade" S mode and Gen-2 T mode. To confuse it more let's call it a Gen-2 "hybrid".
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Old 10-11-2013, 10:38 PM   #100
Paulvt1
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Originally Posted by twinrider View Post
With a Gen II flash the bike is awesome as is. I rode my friend's LC GS back to back with my S10 and could not really tell any difference in engine performance on the twisty back roads we were riding. I can see how Yamaha would shift a lot more if they fixed the fueling from the start and made cruise and ESA optional. But the current bike is excellent. Lots of people are missing out, their loss...
Still can't figure out why Yamaha fitted the bike with awesome ABS and TCS - and then decided to restrict throttle response in the first 3 gears. Just daft..
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Old 10-11-2013, 10:52 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Paulvt1 View Post
Still can't figure out why Yamaha fitted the bike with awesome ABS and TCS - and then decided to restrict throttle response in the first 3 gears. Just daft..
Most of the Japanese do it.

Is it some kind of design rule somewhere? Or manufacturers gentleman's agreement?

My SV650 had the same thing. DL1000 the same, VFR1200 - same. They are just the ones I know about.
Maybe they will drop it, now that they are in touch with their dark side.
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Old 10-11-2013, 11:56 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Old Git Ray View Post
Have you got an S10 ?? If not, have you ridden one off road and tried the ABS ??
No, I've only ridden it on pavement. I would have loved to take one off-road if I could.

I don't get the objection to a simple little switch? Options and rider control is all the rage now. Why have multiple modes for power output and traction control or suspension settings but not have the simple option of turning off the ABS? People who like it would have it and those who may not want it in some conditions could have it their way. It makes everybody happy for pennies.

I don't see KTM, BMW, Moto Guzzi, Triumph getting their pants sued off for offering an off button. If you love it you can leave it on, no biggie.
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Old 10-12-2013, 01:04 AM   #103
GrahamD
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Originally Posted by danketchpel View Post
No, I've only ridden it on pavement. I would have loved to take one off-road if I could.

I don't get the objection to a simple little switch? Options and rider control is all the rage now. Why have multiple modes for power output and traction control or suspension settings but not have the simple option of turning off the ABS? People who like it would have it and those who may not want it in some conditions could have it their way. It makes everybody happy for pennies.

I don't see KTM, BMW, Moto Guzzi, Triumph getting their pants sued off for offering an off button. If you love it you can leave it on, no biggie.
Well YAMAHA may have decided it may more worthy if they just did a better ABS that kept your average amateur rider safe more often, rather than give people crap and a switch.

Different corporate outlook I suppose.

The fact that YAMAHA can't charge a 30% percent law suite premium may have something to do with that.

Maybe the Japanese are a bit more sensitive to maiming and killing their customers. Who knows?

But if this is any indication..
Quote:
Getting picky, the brakes had a little less feel on the Ténéré and were a little more grabby, yet the ABS is really good and even worked well off-road. The GS has better feel and control on the binders, especially the front, and we preferred to disable the ABS when in the dirt.
Quote:
When traction control does come into play, the Yamaha has a simpler and better system; it’s like the volume is just being turned down, while the BMW feels like somebody’s intermittently hitting the mute button.
Now YAMAHA finished off the design in 2009 and had a delayed launch in 2010. It would be interesting to see if they have done any more work on the ABS and TC in the interim.

They need to do more with the "test ride appeal" though. We will see what happens in November.

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GrahamD screwed with this post 10-12-2013 at 02:04 AM
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Old 10-12-2013, 05:20 AM   #104
scudrunner82
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I think they should give more mud clearance so the front fender doesn't pack up so easily
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Old 10-12-2013, 05:23 AM   #105
twinrider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulvt1 View Post
Still can't figure out why Yamaha fitted the bike with awesome ABS and TCS - and then decided to restrict throttle response in the first 3 gears. Just daft..
I've got no idea why but I sure hope Yamaha has studied the flash fueling... It's not just the 1-3 gear restrictions, the ECUnleashed flash makes the bike much smoother and more powerful in all the gears. Now my throttle hand doesn't fall asleep anymore.
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