ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Battle scooters
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-19-2013, 02:33 PM   #16
klaviator
Beastly Adventurer
 
klaviator's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Oddometer: 5,479
I would also like to add that I haven't ridden very many Kymco's. The People 200s I test rode had some sort of handling problem. The Xciting 250 was very pleasant but hardly exciting.

Here are my thoughts on the other scooters I have ridden.

Yamaha Riva 125. Rented it in Hawaii over 25 years ago. An absolute blast. Made me want to get a scooter.

Honda Reflex. Pleasant scooter but hardly exciting.

T max. Very capable but not what I was looking for.

BV250. I liked it and may have bought one if not for the Sport City.

That's it. I won't even go into the 200 or so motorcycles I have ridden.


Edit: One thing I'll add. I haven't seen a Forza 300 in person so I'll reserve judgement on it.
__________________
I ride, Therefore I Am.




klaviator screwed with this post 09-19-2013 at 02:42 PM
klaviator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2013, 03:04 PM   #17
gogogordy
Beastly Adventurer
 
gogogordy's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Temecula, So. California
Oddometer: 1,869
Quote:
Originally Posted by quasigentrified View Post
you'd argue that kymco builds a better scooter than honda or yamaha?
Certainly as good as, and once you factor in the price disparity well the nod goes to KYMCO for value and quality.

BMW certainly thinks KYMCO builds engines of "BMW" quality!
__________________
Isn't it past your bedtime?
gogogordy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2013, 03:29 PM   #18
quasigentrified OP
Cityfolk
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Location: Bothell, WA
Oddometer: 652
Quote:
Originally Posted by gogogordy View Post

BMW certainly thinks KYMCO builds engines of "BMW" quality!
__________________
'12 Kawasaki Z1000 for hoonin'
'12 BMW F800ST for haulin'

'14 Triumph America LT for posin'
quasigentrified is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2013, 04:38 PM   #19
klaviator
Beastly Adventurer
 
klaviator's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Oddometer: 5,479
I do have one complaint about my Super 8


I didn't work very good in the snow.





__________________
I ride, Therefore I Am.



klaviator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2013, 04:58 PM   #20
JerryH
Vintage Rider
 
JerryH's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ
Oddometer: 4,534
I would say the quality off most Taiwanese scooters is at least as good as the Japanese ones (both my Yamaha scooters were built in Taiwan)

I have never owned an Italian bike or car. I will be buying a new car in the next few months, and the Fiat 500 is on my list. I have already test driven it, it's ok, but nothing more, just like all the other small cheap cars I test drove, Asian and American. My interest in the Fiat is that it is available as a 2 door model, one of only 2 in my price range that are, the other being the Toyota Yaris. But I am highly skeptical of both Toyota and Fiat quality. I plan to put a LOT of miles on this car, and need good gas mileage and reliability more than anything else.

For some reason, most European bikes do not seem to have the reliability of Japanese and Taiwanese bikes. They have an image, a name, a heritage, an identity, and the status and cachet that go along with those. But that won't get you home. And because they are usually so much more expensive, I would be a lot more worried about getting a scratch on one.

Just like the Vespa 946, which some find desirable beyond it's intended use as a motor vehicle. I do totally get that. But not with anything new. It has to be vintage to have that effect on me. A new bike or car might be desirable for what it means to others (in other words, something to show off on or in) but I have never had any emotional connection to anything built recently. Now a well built vintage Vespa, maybe even one with some performance tuning, could definitely push the right buttons for me. Even the recent PX150 has emotional appeal to me, being a Vespa and a manual shift 2 stroke . Just like my Stella, but much higher quality. They are already high dollar collectors items. But I don't really see anything that great about a modern 4 stroke CVT Vespa that makes it worth what it costs.


And yes that comment about the Kymco engine in BMWs deserves a comment, since BMWs are mainly known for 2 things, being ridiculously expensive new, and breaking down. Hopefully the engine on the BMW scooters will not break down. It seems very possible BMW chose Kymco to build their engines, because they were not capable of building Kymco quality themselves.

I have a Zuma 125, and my only complaint about it is it's electronics, but that is a big one. Because of that I have serious concerns about it's long term reliability. But it is a fun scooter to ride and it's performance is great for a 125. You can fly around cars with it in town. I haven't actually seen a Forza either, but it's not something I'd be interested in, it looks like a scaled down Silverwing. At 300cc, I would prefer a much shorter scooter. The GTi300 seems almost perfect, if it weren't for the FI.
__________________
2002 Vulcan 750 (now being slowly reassembled) 2013 Royal Enfield B5
2001 XT225, 2009 Genuine Stella
2012 Zuma 125, 1980 Puch moped

JerryH screwed with this post 09-19-2013 at 05:16 PM
JerryH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2013, 05:12 PM   #21
gogogordy
Beastly Adventurer
 
gogogordy's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Temecula, So. California
Oddometer: 1,869
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
I would say the quality off most Taiwanese scooters is at least as good as the Japanese ones (both my Yamaha scooters were built in Taiwan)

I have never owned an Italian bike or car. I will be buying a new car in the next few months, and the Fiat 500 is on my list. I have already test driven it, it's ok, but nothing more, just like all the other small cheap cars I test drove, Asian and American. My interest in the Fiat is that it is available as a 2 door model, one of only 2 in my price range that are, the other being the Toyota Yaris. But I am highly skeptical of both Toyota and Fiat quality. I plan to put a LOT of miles on this car, and need good gas mileage and reliability more than anything else.

For some reason, most European bikes do not seem to have the reliability of Japanese and Taiwanese bikes. They have an image, a name, a heritage, an identity, and the status and cachet that go along with those. But that won't get you home. And because they are usually so much more expensive, I would be a lot more worried about getting a scratch on one.

Just like the Vespa 946, which some find desirable beyond it's intended use as a motor vehicle. I do totally get that. But not with anything new. It has to be vintage to have that effect on me. A new bike or car might be desirable for what it means to others (in other words, something to show off on or in) but I have never had any emotional connection to anything built recently. Now a well built vintage Vespa, maybe even one with some performance tuning, could definitely push the right buttons for me. Even the recent PX150 has emotional appeal to me, being a Vespa and a manual shift 2 stroke . Just like my Stella, but much higher quality. They are already high dollar collectors items. But I don't really see anything that great about a modern 4 stroke CVT Vespa that makes it worth what it costs.

There's a fellow on Yarisworld.com with over 500k on his Yaris Jerry...amazing with normal, good maintenance just like you'd give yours, and only a couple of replacement components.

I love my 2011 Yaris, its been a much more reliable, zero expense car than my former Mini Cooper S. No surprise (Not as sexy or fun to drive, but Im not into that in my cars anymore) but my goal is to keep it, and drive the hell out of for 10 to 15 years.

The Yaris is built 100% in Japan, while the Fiats are built in Toluca Mexico. Just saying. If I were a betting man, Id put my money on the Yaris for both reliability and durability, but also lower cost of ownership.
__________________
Isn't it past your bedtime?
gogogordy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2013, 05:14 PM   #22
Dabears
Beastly Adventurer
 
Dabears's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Atlanta Burbs
Oddometer: 1,094
I don't own a Kymco, but along with SYM they seem to be the two 'bang for the buck' brands available today. Of the two Kymco is far ahead in terms of dealers and support. Looks are subjective, but I do agree that with the exception of the Super 8, Kymcos are not that attractive, but neither is SYM, and I'm trying to find an HD200 as my next scooter...

I like Vespa/Piaggio, but most would agree that away from the west coast their dealer network and parts availability are lacking. They treat the US market as an afterthought (perhaps deservedly so). Still, I would not kick a hot Italian out of my garage if you know what I mean. And indeed, my P200e will probably be running well long after I'm gone.

Japanese? A few sweet spots on the uber touring scooter end and perhaps in the 150 cc range, but the 200-350 range is really lacking. Yes the new Forza offers hope that Honda hasn't abandoned us, but it's too big for my needs...And there's the price issue.

The big good news story to me is that we're coming out of a recession and there are a lot of great scooters out there when these manufacturers could have cut and run. I'm glad we have so many great choices- Taiwanese, Japanese, Italian, etc. It's a great time to be a scooter fan.
__________________
Dabears

2012 SYM HD200 Evo
2006 R1200GS
1980 Vespa P200E
Dabears is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2013, 06:54 PM   #23
tastroman
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Collinsville Va
Oddometer: 1,512
To answer the OP. I have a Daelim that has a KYMCO 250cc engine and transmission so it's essentially a KYMCO Grandvista. It's ugly,handling is sub par and it lost all of it's value the day I rode it off of the lot. But it's got great weather protection, will hit 74mph, is reliable, and at the time undercut Honda 250's by about $2000. It's fine for non interstate travel and used as a tool works just as it should. I ride it year round and have not washed it in 4 years. You are right, a KYMCO might not stir your sole but neither would a dirty Stanley screwdriver.
__________________
------------------------------------------------------
The world would be a better place if there were fewer people who felt like they needed to teach other people a lesson.
2007 Daelim S-2 250
2009 Buell Ulysses XB12XT
tastroman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2013, 07:09 PM   #24
baloneyskin daddy
bikaholic
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: southcentral PA.
Oddometer: 1,946
Quote:
Originally Posted by tastroman View Post
To answer the OP. I have a Daelim that has a KYMCO 250cc engine and transmission so it's essentially a KYMCO Grandvista. It's ugly,handling is sub par and it lost all of it's value the day I rode it off of the lot. But it's got great weather protection, will hit 74mph, is reliable, and at the time undercut Honda 250's by about $2000. It's fine for non interstate travel and used as a tool works just as it should. I ride it year round and have not washed it in 4 years. You are right, a KYMCO might not stir your sole but neither would a dirty Stanley screwdriver.
That pretty much nails it for me . M y scooters are cheap fun and the uglier the better as far as I'm concerned.Stick a milk crate on the back and let the car sit for days at a time.At 4 times the gas mileage I don't much care about personality or pizzazz and I'm not sellin them so resale value is a non issue.
baloneyskin daddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2013, 07:54 PM   #25
klaviator
Beastly Adventurer
 
klaviator's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Oddometer: 5,479
I've been sticking up for Kymco so now it's time to do the same for my Aprilia. 17,000+ miles and no reliability issues except a leaking fork seal. Build quality seems to be as good as the Japanese bikes and BMW I have owned. I have never had to wait for parts, not that I needed very many. It looks good and has personality. My Kymco feels more like fun but the Aprilia is more capable and a better scooter outside of town. I recently spent time in the Ozarks riding around with guys on much bigger scooters. I had no problems keeping up, even when 2 up.
__________________
I ride, Therefore I Am.




klaviator screwed with this post 09-19-2013 at 08:00 PM
klaviator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2013, 07:56 PM   #26
jaredfedex
Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2013
Oddometer: 17
it's a scooter if you're looking for performance please look somewhere else lol.
same can be said for appearance, i ride around on a kymco 125 and i know full well it does not make me look cool or hip.
Neither does riding any scooter make you look cool or hip. They're all ugly, they're a method of cheap transportation and anyone looking beyond that is fooling themselves.
jaredfedex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2013, 08:31 PM   #27
quasigentrified OP
Cityfolk
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Location: Bothell, WA
Oddometer: 652
really? do you live in a city? scooters are GREAT fun for urban exploration, parking lot tomfoolery, and general group crawls. i have a blast on mine, and i ride the big bikes as well. i like my scoots to make a nice sound, wind up quick off the line, have great handling, and let me rat about in general having a great ol' time. they definitely AREN'T merely a transport appliance for me any more than my motorcycles are; in fact, i'd say my ctx 700 is more of a transport appliance than any scoot i've owned...

(i don't ride to look hip, either, because this hobby costs money, and i don't value cool/hipness.)

why would you want even a 125cc ride to be sluggish, clumsy, and or charmless -- when it doesn't need to be? it's the same for scoots as it is for any bike. it's a weird sort of pretention that suggests small displacement and/or the lack of a shifter nullify *fun* for most folks...
__________________
'12 Kawasaki Z1000 for hoonin'
'12 BMW F800ST for haulin'

'14 Triumph America LT for posin'
quasigentrified is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2013, 08:38 PM   #28
JerryH
Vintage Rider
 
JerryH's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ
Oddometer: 4,534
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaredfedex View Post
it's a scooter if you're looking for performance please look somewhere else lol.
same can be said for appearance, i ride around on a kymco 125 and i know full well it does not make me look cool or hip.
Neither does riding any scooter make you look cool or hip. They're all ugly, they're a method of cheap transportation and anyone looking beyond that is fooling themselves.

I have to admit that I have not seen a late model scooter that looked really good to me, but some of the '50s and '60s Vespas, Lambrettas, Cushmans, Salisburys, and Heinkels were gorgeous. I would feel very cool riding one of those. Don't tell a vintage Vespa rider that their scooter isn't cool, even if it is rusted and has primer for paint. They are likely to get all mad and smash your face in. Most people into the vintage scooter scene tend to be very passionate about their scoots. Passion is one thing completely missing from pretty much all modern vehicles. Electronics, emissions crap, and plastic have a way of killing passion.


As for reliability, I have 24,000 miles on my '08 Vino 125, (made in Taiwan) and the one and only issue I have ever had with it is a broken exhaust hanger bolt, caused by a design flaw, that is common on these models. Happened around 5,000 miles, I redesigned it, and it is still holding up fine. This design problem was most likely caused when Yamaha made some changes to the Japanese model to make it meet U.S. EPA specs. Mine no longer meets any emissions specs. I think 24,000 miles with only one minor issue is not bad for a 125cc scooter ridden at full throttle 95% of the time. I expect it to last past 50,000 miles.
__________________
2002 Vulcan 750 (now being slowly reassembled) 2013 Royal Enfield B5
2001 XT225, 2009 Genuine Stella
2012 Zuma 125, 1980 Puch moped
JerryH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2013, 08:46 PM   #29
blugg1
Gnarly Adventurer
 
blugg1's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: Bisbee, AZ
Oddometer: 312
I've ridden several KYMCO scooters. Then I rode a 2012 SYM HD 200 and immediately bought it. It's made in Taiwan. It's fast. Ceramic coated cylinder and 4 valve head. I cruise at 60-70 easily. Starts instantly. Average 70mpg. Liquid cooled. I think it looks good, fire engine red with black wheels, (subjective opinion here).

6K trouble free miles. Based on my scooter experiences (Vino 125, Burgman 650) the HD 200 is a keeper.

Sorry to hear Jerry H. thinks the Fiat 500 is a so-so car. I was thinking about buying one.
__________________
2013 TU250x, 2012 SYM HD200 EVO
blugg1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2013, 09:22 PM   #30
JerryH
Vintage Rider
 
JerryH's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ
Oddometer: 4,534
The SYM HD200 does seem to be the scooter deal out there in that size range. It does everything well, and it still has a carb, something very important to me. It's larger diameter tires should last longer than 5,000 miles but maybe not. If they had put 17" wheels on it, there are a lot of good motorcycle tires that will fit. But I seem to remember the 16" tires on the older Ninja 250s lasting past 10,000 miles. The problem with a scooter is almost all the weight is in the back. Rider, engine and drive train, gas tank, underseat storage, and some put a rear top box on them. My Vino 125 eats a rear tire every 5000 miles, but the front tire lasts more than twice that long.

The Fiat 500 I test drove was a base model (POP 500) with an automatic (I have to have an automatic because of knee and shoulder problems) I have 2 vehicles with manual transmissions, and when I feel like actually driving I can take one of those out and run around till things start to hurt. The upscale Abarth is a whole different car from what I understand, but it's price puts it in Mustang/Camaro territory. I want an ECONOMY car. The Fiat is still on my list, as is the Yaris, Chevy Sonic, and Ford Fiesta. The Chevy Spark and Nissan Versa have been dumped because of their CVT transmissions. After having had 5 CVT scooters, the last thing I want is one on a car. They are short lived, and I don't know if they can keep the engine rpms up while climbing. Apparently the Spark and Versa are so cheap in part because they saved so much money not putting real transmissions in them. The Honda Fit is also not on my list, because I simply refuse to drive a Honda car, unless it is a mid '70s Civic, which is what the Fiat 500 reminds me of. Honda cars have a couple of bad reputations, the Accord is a snob car, sort of like a poor persons BMW, and the rest have a reputation as being ricer cars. One thing I wouldn't have to worry about with the Fiat. I actually like the way it looks, better than all the rest. But the base model is a cheaply built small car, no different from all the rest. I'm not even sure I would call it Italian, other than the name. The Ford Fiesta is also built in Mexico. The Sonic, believe it or not, is built in Detroit. That definitely carries a lot of weight with me.
__________________
2002 Vulcan 750 (now being slowly reassembled) 2013 Royal Enfield B5
2001 XT225, 2009 Genuine Stella
2012 Zuma 125, 1980 Puch moped
JerryH is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 05:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014