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Old 09-23-2013, 01:30 PM   #61
Sparrowhawk
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Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
HARLEY-DAVIDSON POSTS SECOND-QUARTER 2013 EARNINGS, REVENUE AND RETAIL MOTORCYCLE SALES GROWTH
EPS Rises 13.1% for the Quarter to $1.21
Second-Quarter Worldwide Harley-Davidson Retail Motorcycle Sales Increase ...
Enron's 2000 report showed even better results. Not saying there will be a big HD scandal, just that the old warnings about past success not being a reliable indicator of future earnings and things are not always what they appear remain true.

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Old 09-23-2013, 01:42 PM   #62
waveydavey
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Originally Posted by markk9 View Post
Per the 2012 Annual Report:

Motorcycle sales: 3,764,794
Cost of motorcycles: 3,222,394
Profit from motorcycle sales: 542,200

Parts & Accessories profit: 859,945
General Merchandise profit: 299,403

Doesn't get easier than that, but then again you may not understand it. If you want I could send you a PDF of the 2012 Annual report. Just give me your email address.
see, that wasn't so hard. Thanks. Never would have thought that (obviously).
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Old 09-23-2013, 01:56 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Dranrab Luap View Post
My guess is that people who bash Harley's haven't ridden one.

I have, more than a hand full of times. They are far overrated and more of a symbol of Americana than anything else. They don't do a single thing that a metric cruiser can do for less money and a higher build quality.
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Old 09-23-2013, 02:20 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by waveydavey View Post
see, that wasn't so hard. Thanks. Never would have thought that (obviously).
I guess you must have skipped post #48, as the above one was just a repeat.
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Old 09-23-2013, 03:51 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Jnich77 View Post
I have, more than a hand full of times. They are far overrated and more of a symbol of Americana than anything else. They don't do a single thing that a metric cruiser can do for less money and a higher build quality.
less money, sure.
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Old 09-23-2013, 04:09 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by markk9 View Post
Per the 2012 Annual Report:

Motorcycle sales: 3,764,794
Cost of motorcycles: 3,222,394
Profit from motorcycle sales: 542,200

Parts & Accessories profit: 859,945
General Merchandise profit: 299,403

Doesn't get easier than that, but then again you may not understand it. If you want I could send you a PDF of the 2012 Annual report. Just give me your email address.
To me that says that they are gouging the phonies who just want to buy merchandise rather than riding. A rider with a standard Harley isn't paying the profit to keep the doors open from the looks of it.

Would people rather them make less profit from their merchandise and more from their bikes? That would have to increase bikes MSRP, probably meaning less actual riders.
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Old 09-23-2013, 04:22 PM   #67
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i did a demo day back when the xr1200 first came out. i only rode 2 bikes, the xr and then something else that i don't remember what it was. it looked like a sportster, but was different in some way. the sales person explained it to me, but honestly, i didn't really care. i wanted to ride a vrod but the line for that bike was too long.

the xr1200 was alright, i would probably consider one if i had never ridden a monster or an SV. the other bike was just weird. soft front with decent travel and a stiff rear with what felt like no travel made for a really disconcerting feeling going over bumps mid corner. on both bikes, the engine character was totally different from what i'm used to. it seemed like the show was over by about 5000rpm, which is when things just start to get interesting on most bikes.

one thing that i found hilarious and interesting was how much the engines vibrate at idle, and how smooth they become once moving. clearly this was designed in to the bikes. another thing was how chunky and clunky all of the controls are. not really in a bad way, but there was a definite feeling of deliberate heftiness behind everything.
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Old 09-23-2013, 04:23 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by markk9 View Post
I guess you must have skipped post #48, as the above one was just a repeat.
Why did you not just say so earlier? We could have avoided all that.
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Old 09-23-2013, 04:46 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by markk9 View Post
Per the 2012 Annual Report, motorcycle sales: 3,764,794 cost of motorcycles: 3,222,394 profit from motorcycle sales: 542,200

Parts & Accessories profit: 859,945
General Merchandise profit: 299,403
I'm thinking you need to add three zeros to those numbers.
Like $3,764,794,000 or $3.8 billion in motorcycle sales. Serious money.
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Old 09-23-2013, 05:10 PM   #70
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The Harley demos at Daytona bikeweek are the best. no group ride bullshit just follow the orange arrows.
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Old 09-23-2013, 10:24 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by marty_uiuc View Post
the other bike was just weird. soft front with decent travel and a stiff rear with what felt like no travel made for a really disconcerting feeling going over bumps mid corner. on both bikes, the engine character was totally different from what i'm used to. it seemed like the show was over by about 5000rpm, which is when things just start to get interesting on most bikes.
This reminds me of one of my first rides on a Harley. It was one of the AMF models and I was amazed at how crappy the suspension was, not to mention the dull engine. The fork bent backwards when using the front brake, considering the weak response of the even crappier brakes. Compared to a Honda Superhawk and Kawasaki H3, poor competition indeed, the Harley was shite. How the company survived that era amazes me.

It will be interesting to watch as HD breaks away from the weird cult following it has created and grows into a more mature motorcycle company. I think the current management has what it takes but it will be a new world.

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Old 09-24-2013, 04:48 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Jnich77 View Post
I have, more than a hand full of times. They are far overrated and more of a symbol of Americana than anything else. They don't do a single thing that a metric cruiser can do for less money and a higher build quality.
I'll take resale value for 1000 Alex.
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Old 09-24-2013, 04:49 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Berto View Post
The Harley demos at Daytona bikeweek are the best. no group ride bullshit just follow the orange arrows.
That's where I did mine and there are, much to my surprise, some good corners there.
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Old 09-24-2013, 04:59 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Dranrab Luap View Post
I'll take resale value for 1000 Alex.
THIS IS NOT MEANT AS A HD SLAM !!! but i have concerns over resale value of HD bikes in the near future. The 14s are such a dramatic step forward for the company, that I expect every tom dick and hairy will want one, trading in their 13s and older. this will create a glut in used bikes at dealers, and driving their resale value down. used bikes are a tough sell anyway as interest rates make it cheaper to buy new (on a monthly basis). Im not a banker, but seems like common sense to me. if i were trading in for a new hd, id do it now while trade in values are high
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Old 09-24-2013, 05:02 AM   #75
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New Reason to Hate Harley Davidson

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Originally Posted by Sparrowhawk View Post
Enron's 2000 report showed even better results. Not saying there will be a big HD scandal, just that the old warnings about past success not being a reliable indicator of future earnings and things are not always what they appear remain true.

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Get ready, the motorcycle industry is finally going to be deregulated and HD can manipulate the motorcycle markets resulting in great price volatility and huge reported profits, because their debt will be hidden from investors in off the balance sheet shell companies! I wonder which of the big accounting firms is going to crash and burn with HD when they go under? Where will the 100,000+ people who loose their jobs find work?

I've enjoyed reading a few "questionably rational" sentiments about HD since I started this thread (after enjoying a great time riding a bunch of somewhat eclectic motorcycles by ordinary global standards), but comparing HD to Enron - Priceless!
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