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Old 09-24-2013, 05:06 AM   #76
Dranrab Luap
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THIS IS NOT MEANT AS A HD SLAM !!! but i have concerns over resale value of HD bikes in the near future. The 14s are such a dramatic step forward for the company, that I expect every tom dick and hairy will want one, trading in their 13s and older. this will create a glut in used bikes at dealers, and driving their resale value down. used bikes are a tough sell anyway as interest rates make it cheaper to buy new (on a monthly basis). Im not a banker, but seems like common sense to me. if i were trading in for a new hd, id do it now while trade in values are high
I don't know. With the major technological steps Harley has taken in the past, the earlier year models didn't take a depreciation hit. Take '09 and later and pre '09 touring bikes for example. Remember, not everyone embraces new technology. Some people like to see first year model glitches worked out too. Even if they do see a drop in value, I seriously doubt they'll lose half the percentage value a typical Japanese cruiser does.
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Old 09-24-2013, 05:11 AM   #77
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THIS IS NOT MEANT AS A HD SLAM !!! but i have concerns over resale value of HD bikes in the near future. The 14s are such a dramatic step forward for the company, that I expect every tom dick and hairy will want one, trading in their 13s and older. this will create a glut in used bikes at dealers, and driving their resale value down. used bikes are a tough sell anyway as interest rates make it cheaper to buy new (on a monthly basis). Im not a banker, but seems like common sense to me. if i were trading in for a new hd, id do it now while trade in values are high
I thought the same thing when riding the new water cooled BMW, I mean the new water cooled HD - JUST KIDDING! Please don't surround my house with a mob of pitchfork wielding oil and air head owners! Come on - if we can't laugh at ourselves, we are likely to be the only ones not laughing!
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Old 09-24-2013, 07:26 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Dranrab Luap View Post
I don't know. With the major technological steps Harley has taken in the past, the earlier year models didn't take a depreciation hit. Take '09 and later and pre '09 touring bikes for example. Remember, not everyone embraces new technology. Some people like to see first year model glitches worked out too. Even if they do see a drop in value, I seriously doubt they'll lose half the percentage value a typical Japanese cruiser does.
I agree.. I had an 06 ultra and a 10 road king. The new frame was a huge difference in the way bike handled, and you are correct, while sales jumped, resale did not suffer. These 14s are a bit different imho as they have now changed the appearance of the bike, and it is easy to tell a 14 from a 13 in a parking lot.. Shallow or not these things matter to the average consumerer. I didn't mean to infer that resale values would plummet, but I do expect a significant dip. You are correct the resale value of an hd will never drop to the level of the metric cruisers, and in truth only goldwings and higher end beemers (rt's, gs's) seem to have a resale value even close to hds.

ive owned many hds over the years, and may own another in the future, sadly for this chapter in my life they arent making a bike that suits my desires well enough.. i wish they'd make their own uly... these 14s are their best bike to date... im happy to see them stepping up
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Old 09-24-2013, 07:29 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Wdwrkr View Post
THIS IS NOT MEANT AS A HD SLAM !!! but i have concerns over resale value of HD bikes in the near future. The 14s are such a dramatic step forward for the company, that I expect every tom dick and hairy will want one, trading in their 13s and older. this will create a glut in used bikes at dealers, and driving their resale value down. used bikes are a tough sell anyway as interest rates make it cheaper to buy new (on a monthly basis). Im not a banker, but seems like common sense to me. if i were trading in for a new hd, id do it now while trade in values are high
I don't think that will happen at least this year.
Too many problems already with the water cooled 14's.
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Old 09-24-2013, 07:30 AM   #80
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Any one else interested in the head to head comparison with the new Indian.....

I know I am.. The indians faring leaves a bit to desired visually, and the bags look suspect, but I have yet to see one in person.. reports on the new motor are great... could these finally be a rival to hd again???, or is the company just to implanted in the american consciousness
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Old 09-24-2013, 07:32 AM   #81
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I've enjoyed reading a few "questionably rational" sentiments about HD since I started this thread (after enjoying a great time riding a bunch of somewhat eclectic motorcycles by ordinary global standards), but comparing HD to Enron - Priceless!
Good point. I was only using Enron as an example of how today's investment report may not reflect the future, not comparing the two companies. It was a poor example none the less.

A better example would be RIM/BlackBerry around 2005-2007. Like HD today, they were very successful and the future looked to be even brighter. Also like HD today, they only offered one type of product but they made it better than anyone else. Owning a CrackBerry was a kind of status symbol and they had very loyal customers. Lazaridis was RIM's Willie G.

Unfortunately for RIM, the market changed and few wanted what they had to offer. Security, low data use, and a great speakerphone could not compete against mp3 players, video streaming, and hundreds of cool apps. RIM ignored the market changes and became irrelevant.

HD would be totally screwed if cruisers went out of style next year. That's not likely to happen but to think today's market will continue forever is ludicrous. I see a positive shift in HD's management that wasn't there a few years ago that will allow them to move into new markets and be responsive to changing markets here at home. I don't expect HD to follow RIM's example.

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Old 09-24-2013, 08:08 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Wdwrkr View Post
THIS IS NOT MEANT AS A HD SLAM !!! but i have concerns over resale value of HD bikes in the near future. The 14s are such a dramatic step forward for the company, that I expect every tom dick and hairy will want one, trading in their 13s and older. this will create a glut in used bikes at dealers, and driving their resale value down. used bikes are a tough sell anyway as interest rates make it cheaper to buy new (on a monthly basis). Im not a banker, but seems like common sense to me. if i were trading in for a new hd, id do it now while trade in values are high
Tell me what models are dramatically advanced compared to the 2013s, besides the top level touring bikes. Softails, Dynas and Sportsters don't seem very different this year.
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Old 09-24-2013, 08:20 AM   #83
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Tell me what models are dramatically advanced compared to the 2013s, besides the top level touring bikes. Softails, Dynas and Sportsters don't seem very different this year.

Sportsters got the Wiring harness that the Softails got in 2011 and the Dyna's got in 2012 and are also available with ABS Brakes this year.

Dynas got a re-designed Fat Bob and Standard ABS on the Wide Glide and Switchback.

Softails got ABS Standard on ALL models except for the FLS "SLIM"

You are correct. The Touring bikes got the major changes. The Twin Cooled FLHTCUTG, FLHTK & FLHTCUSE9 getting the most with High compression pistons and liquid cooled heads.
The Rest of the Touring bikes got New Down tubes, Triple Trees, Steering head barings, linked ABS (some standard/some not) Seat faring and a host of other upgrades.

It is the most changes the MoCo has done in a long time (if ever).
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Old 09-24-2013, 08:58 AM   #84
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My test ride on a new '07 Road King was pre-arranged, phone call, talked with sales manager, etc. Left work an hour early to get there in time before closure, showed my dossier of P&S agreements spanning three decades, including when that Dealer was in York, ME 34 years ago.
"Um, ah, we don't, um, exactly do test rides, per se, um, you could rent one for a day" Apparently the supply of Village People at that time was sufficient to be able to be arrogant and independant. I laughed as I walked out of that poseur ranch for the last time. I can't wait to attend the equipment auction when the overhead cost of Taj Mahal Seacoast H-D outweighs their T-shirt sales and they implode.

I grin every time a direct mail test ride postcard comes.. and goes in the recycle bin. Phone calls too.
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Old 09-24-2013, 10:01 AM   #85
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My test ride on a new '07 Road King was pre-arranged, phone call, talked with sales manager, etc. Left work an hour early to get there in time before closure, showed my dossier of P&S agreements spanning three decades, including when that Dealer was in York, ME 34 years ago.
"Um, ah, we don't, um, exactly do test rides, per se, um, you could rent one for a day" Apparently the supply of Village People at that time was sufficient to be able to be arrogant and independant. I laughed as I walked out of that poseur ranch for the last time. I can't wait to attend the equipment auction when the overhead cost of Taj Mahal Seacoast H-D outweighs their T-shirt sales and they implode.

I grin every time a direct mail test ride postcard comes.. and goes in the recycle bin. Phone calls too.
Wow...
Do you let every little up and down in life effect you to this extreme?
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Old 09-24-2013, 11:35 AM   #86
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Good point. I was only using Enron as an example of how today's investment report may not reflect the future, not comparing the two companies. It was a poor example none the less.

A better example would be RIM/BlackBerry around 2005-2007. Like HD today, they were very successful and the future looked to be even brighter. Also like HD today, they only offered one type of product but they made it better than anyone else. Owning a CrackBerry was a kind of status symbol and they had very loyal customers. Lazaridis was RIM's Willie G.

Unfortunately for RIM, the market changed and few wanted what they had to offer. Security, low data use, and a great speakerphone could not compete against mp3 players, video streaming, and hundreds of cool apps. RIM ignored the market changes and became irrelevant.

HD would be totally screwed if cruisers went out of style next year. That's not likely to happen but to think today's market will continue forever is ludicrous. I see a positive shift in HD's management that wasn't there a few years ago that will allow them to move into new markets and be responsive to changing markets here at home. I don't expect HD to follow RIM's example.

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I agree - sorry I couldn't let the Enron reference pass!

I wonder if HD is concerned about alienating their base by embracing the technology the other manufacturers offer. They started actively reaching out to women and minorities in recent year (by their own admission), so they appear to be receptive to the broader market of potential customers. I also wonder what traditional HD owners would consider purchasing if HD got too high tech - it's not like there are a lot of close low tech alternatives.
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Old 09-24-2013, 05:42 PM   #87
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What with all the doom saying over HD. They just released their best bikes to date, why on earth would this be the beginning of the end. The reality is most HD riders have never ridden anything but an HD. They buy out a sense of patriotism, and for the culture. Sure HD has started to build bikes geared toward women (actually vertically challenged IMHO), but really isn't this just good business, (55% of the population are women, what business ignores 55%of it's potential customers). Beyond the shadow is there a bike geared toward shorter people??? On this point I think HD has their finger on the pulse, and BMW, ducati, triumph etc would be wise to take note.....

I think the bigger question here is how many HD riders would still prefer their bike if they test road some of the euro, and japanese sport tourers... Really (for conversation sake) what if one were disguise a RT, FJR, or MS and put an HD name plate on it.... After a test ride would they be impressed, or disgusted with the technology. Obviously the appearance would need to modified for the test to have any chance. My guess is they would be astonished at what a motorcycle could do... Maybe I'm being short sighted, but in full discloser i owned 7 HDs, and never wanted any other brand bike, then I road my brother in laws GS, and was completely blow away by the exceleration, breaking and
Handling.. I kept my road king for another year, but never really road it again once I had the GSA.... Probably just me
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Old 09-24-2013, 05:51 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Wdwrkr View Post
What with all the doom saying over HD. They just released their best bikes to date, why on earth would this be the beginning of the end. The reality is most HD riders have never ridden anything but an HD. They buy out a sense of patriotism, and for the culture. Sure HD has started to build bikes geared toward women (actually vertically challenged IMHO), but really isn't this just good business, (55% of the population are women, what business ignores 55%of it's potential customers). Beyond the shadow is there a bike geared toward shorter people??? On this point I think HD has their finger on the pulse, and BMW, ducati, triumph etc would be wise to take note.....

I think the bigger question here is how many HD riders would still prefer their bike if they test road some of the euro, and japanese sport tourers... Really (for conversation sake) what if one were disguise a RT, FJR, or MS and put an HD name plate on it.... After a test ride would they be impressed, or disgusted with the technology. Obviously the appearance would need to modified for the test to have any chance. My guess is they would be astonished at what a motorcycle could do... Maybe I'm being short sighted, but in full discloser i owned 7 HDs, and never wanted any other brand bike, then I road my brother in laws GS, and was completely blow away by the exceleration, breaking and
Handling.. I kept my road king for another year, but never really road it again once I had the GSA.... Probably just me

Maybe. I went the other way, sport bikes, sport tourers then a couple of GS BMWs. I bought my softail because I wanted to have another bike for 'casual' riding. Six months after I had started riding the Harley, I had no interest in my GS1200 anymore. I sold it and even though I have spent some time recently on more modern and refined bikes (Suzuki 1250 AF and a BMW K1300GT) I have no desire to get another one. Although the 2014 touring bikes are real nice. Maybe I need 3 bikes again. Everyone is different.
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Old 09-24-2013, 05:57 PM   #89
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See diffent strokes for different folks.. It's good to have choices, and to be free to make them.... I'll still wave a we pass each other
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Old 09-24-2013, 06:02 PM   #90
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Any one else interested in the head to head comparison with the new Indian.....

I know I am.. The indians faring leaves a bit to desired visually, and the bags look suspect, but I have yet to see one in person.. reports on the new motor are great... could these finally be a rival to hd again???, or is the company just to implanted in the american consciousness
I rode both back to back. A 14 water CVO Ultra about 10 miles and a 14 oil cooled full dress Indian. The HD is better, but not by very much, and certainly not 10K better. It will have better resale. HD has really improved the abs. I like it now. The best faring hands down. Better bags.

The 111 on the Indian has a much smoother idle than the HD. They are trying to be different at the same market. I does have power everywhere, and solid mounted it is smooth, almost as smooth as the HD, just without the shake at idle. Great ABS. slightly better brakes, may be due to lighter weight. In a drag race it would be the best rider that wins. I think the Indian would win because of lower weight. Fairing not quite as good. Very good, just slightly more turbulence. The Indian has a 5 year warranty! So they plan to stand behind it.

Then I rode an 103 14 electraglide. The Eglide wins for the money. The Indian will beat it in a drag race. But faring, bags, seating position, price, resale, eglide wins.

HD better stay on their game cause a new game is in town, and they are close close close.

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