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Old 09-26-2013, 05:38 PM   #31
Choicecut OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amcross View Post
Hey, Eli!
So glad to see you out there agian, and glad you stayed in Novice. it's so sad to see guys who jump straight into intermediate (saw one go to sportsman on his first day on a trials bike!) - and then get upset and b/c they can't or wont' face teh ego hit of moving down, they quit. don't want to see you do that!

your family is SOOO welcome at TI. i sure hope we'll see them there. sadly, we won't be at wildwood, but hope to see you at cole hollow.

My thoughts on moving to intermediate? I know it will be a lonnng time for me - and the win rule wouldn't work for me, as the novice class is so often empty or nearly empty. But right now I practice intermediate level stuff at home as often as I can, and after the event is over, I go back out and ride some intermediate lines.

ONE THOUGHT on going back on the loop, you sort of hit on. Be sure that you aren't holding up someone who is rushing to finish. I did go back out on Sunday -w ith permission - and laid down a 4th loop, sans one section tha I didntn want to see again (hint hint Doug!) - mainly for the fitness of the added ride time.

One more option -- ride the loop early Saturday morning and walk the sections. if you feel you can ride most of the intermediate stuff, try it that day. If you see more than 2 that look terrifying, stay with us in novice or make it an 'open' day.

PS: to those who don't ride TI, our classes are
novice
intermediate
sportsman
advanced
expert
champ

(with a senior intermediate and a senior sportsman plus a vintage novice)

I **SO** iwsh the sport would standardize on names....
I am glad I stayed in Novice too. Just don't think I am ready for Intermediate quite yet and I don't have an ego to fluff so I am quite ok with that. I just really enjoy riding and wrenching on bikes. Trials is the perfect fit for a big clumsy ogre like myself.

My family is going to come with me to the Wildwood Event and I hope they enjoy it. My wife is afraid that our daughter won't have much to do, but I told them there are usually a lot of kids running around. My hope is that our daughter sees all the other kids riding trials and wants to join in!

I am definitely going to try some of the Intermediate lines next weekend after I run the Novice loop. If I do OK, I might try Intermediate in Coal Hollow. I do Intermediate stuff around my home and on my brothers property, but when I get to an event, see the markers and ribbon, all my skills head for the hills! I will just keep plugging at it as my hope is to get good like MikeC and a lot of the other riders. They make it look so frikkin easy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by motojunky View Post
November 10, Granogue DE. Free camping the night prior. The Tri-State Trialers will be hosting a MAVT trial - the last of the season. The flyer should be available soon.

This year, I will ride as a mentor/minder for new riders on the 4 (beginner) line to help with any questions or concerns that may arise. Another club in our series did this a couple of months back and had just one taker who spoke highly of the experience.

We've already sorta met, so no need to be uncomfortable. I'll help you (and any other newbie takers - I suspect a very small group) through sign-up, finding the sections, line selection, collecting your trophy, etc. The concerns you've mentioned in a few posts are exactly what we're hoping to help with.

I do hope you'll consider it. It's a great event.
Man, that sounds like it would be awesome. I think the first round of next season for TI is the tenth though! That is an excellent idea what you are doing for new riders. If it weren't for AnnMarie and MikeC taking me under their wing and JoeClark giving me pointers at my first event, I would have been completely clueless at what to do. I doubt I would have went to another one either.
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Old 09-26-2013, 06:28 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Twin-shocker View Post
I see from a previous post that you are running up to 6 separate classes in US trials. How exactly do you work out what class a rider should be competing in? Here you go up after a novice or intermediate class win at an open event.
Twin - my understanding here at least is simply it is rider's choice. for example, Mike has been winning sportsman for some time now. He rode one advanced event, and found it over his head (over 100 points and SERIOUS dismounts from his bike 7 times in one day); he was welcome to return to sportsman. Hopefully by spring he will be solidly competing in advanced.

My old club, D4 in New York State, back in the 90s had a 'move up' requirement and also a 'thou shalt never go back'. It was sad to see someone get injured and quit because they were not welcome to go back down a class. We also had a one-year max on rookie back then, which I got waived for me because had I been forced out I simply would've quit...and nope, i wasn't winning nothing! ;P

We don't have "open events" in our area, at least I don't think so, if I understand what you mean.
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Old 09-26-2013, 06:30 PM   #33
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You know - there's an equine sport we do called Competitive Orienteering - it is like scavenger hunt with compasses but on horseback.

ANYWAY - at every event in the morning they have a 'practice plate' - every newbie is strongly encouraged to go with some senior rider and go try out the practice plate, without oyur horse. You learn how to read the clues, use your compass, and write down the info you find in teh woods. Takes about 10 minutes and makes the game make sense.

it'd be cool if each trials had a set time, maybe 15 minutes prior to riders meeting, where a few experienced riders called all first timers (and returning riders) to an open chat about how the events work, where to go, how to read markers, etc!
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Old 09-26-2013, 06:39 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amcross View Post
...it'd be cool if each trials had a set time, maybe 15 minutes prior to riders meeting, where a few experienced riders called all first timers (and returning riders) to an open chat about how the events work, where to go, how to read markers, etc!

Be careful what you suggest,you'll get the job
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Old 09-27-2013, 08:06 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twin-shocker View Post
I see from a previous post that you are running up to 6 separate classes in US trials. How exactly do you work out what class a rider should be competing in? Here you go up after a novice or intermediate class win at an open event.
New Mexico Trials Association actually has 8 classes plus Twin Shock. But post-2008 economic crunch that is simply too many for the sparse turn-out our events have been receiving.

There is no move-up rule. Internal and external social pressure ("stealing trophies from little kids, still?") are our two class-sorting methods, with the expectable results. No one is "forced" up out of a class, but the club also incorporates a move-up/move-down rule for each event whereby you can change classes after up to three sections with only the time lost.

Of our lower classes, Beginner is for people who not only have never ridden trials, but also have not ridden motorcycles. That's where Junior kids break into the regular events unless they have enough confidence and skill to ride Novice. Novice is for people trying trials who already have some motorcycle experience. Amateur is where a lot of off-road racers try trials first. Intermediate is where fundamental trials skills of body posture, turning, throttle and clutch control really start getting tested, but with less strenuous loops and lower risk obstacles. There are some specific standards, for height of steps for instance, but that is more subjective than people might expect. Approach terrain, dabbing space, and post-obstacle challenges can influence how the standards are applied.

The upper classes are harder for me to qualify. Sportsman is the basic upper-class level, not requiring hopping skills, for riders who can consistently clean most Intermediate lines, and would fit in the Clubman class at Nationals. Semi-Experts are folks mostly comfortable in the support classes at a National. Experts have serious skills but aren't comfortable with the risks of the Champ class. Our Champs are folks who are competitive in the EX class at Nationals.

This is club trials. It's supposed to be fun, not dangerous, and people who would cherry-pick a class for a trinket eventually feel social pressure to stop that. It's not a perfect system, but nobody feels comfortable "forcing" a move up into a class where someone could get hurt.
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Old 09-27-2013, 02:14 PM   #36
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Here in the UK we have open events (called centre trials) as well as club trials. In a club trial a centre expert would be expected to ride the expert class, but nothing to stop a novice or inter riding harder sections.

The grading system only operates in centre events, but as there are less and less centre events now, I guess before long many riders will be deciding for themselves what class they ride in club trials?
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Old 10-08-2013, 05:27 PM   #37
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HEY ELI! Did you not make it to Wildwood?? Hope all is well and that we'll se you at Cole Hollow.

Wanted to re-iterate Mikes and my invitation. We LOOOOVE having riders out to our farm and wish we weren't so far away from everyone in TI. Bring your wife and daughter - the girls and I can fawn over the horses a while, then we can take the trials bikes and go play int he pasture. you can even drive your truck right down to our play area, so family can be comfy and hang out while we get som epractice time.

we are 90 minutes due west of indianapolis and pretty easy to find...give mike a call or an email if you can make it out someitme!

hope we see you at cole hollow....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Choicecut View Post
I am glad I stayed in Novice too. Just don't think I am ready for Intermediate quite yet and I don't have an ego to fluff so I am quite ok with that. I just really enjoy riding and wrenching on bikes. Trials is the perfect fit for a big clumsy ogre like myself.

My family is going to come with me to the Wildwood Event and I hope they enjoy it. My wife is afraid that our daughter won't have much to do, but I told them there are usually a lot of kids running around. My hope is that our daughter sees all the other kids riding trials and wants to join in!

I am definitely going to try some of the Intermediate lines next weekend after I run the Novice loop. If I do OK, I might try Intermediate in Coal Hollow. I do Intermediate stuff around my home and on my brothers property, but when I get to an event, see the markers and ribbon, all my skills head for the hills! I will just keep plugging at it as my hope is to get good like MikeC and a lot of the other riders. They make it look so frikkin easy!



Man, that sounds like it would be awesome. I think the first round of next season for TI is the tenth though! That is an excellent idea what you are doing for new riders. If it weren't for AnnMarie and MikeC taking me under their wing and JoeClark giving me pointers at my first event, I would have been completely clueless at what to do. I doubt I would have went to another one either.
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Old 10-09-2013, 03:23 PM   #38
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Hey Ann! Unfortunately we did not make it to Wildwood. We were a house of sickness that weekend so we opted not to infect everyone at the event. I really wanted to go to that one too as it was Gilbert Reeds event.

We are planning on going to Coal Hollow for sure. If I heard Bob right in Indiana, there are going to be give-aways on top of being a great event. I will have a RYP school under my belt by then, so maybe I can avoid going over the handlebars like I did in Indiana.

Really appreciate the offer you and Mike have given out! We have a horse farm behind our house that we love to walk over to and pet the horses. Might take you guys up on that offer in the spring! See you in Coal Hollow!
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Old 10-09-2013, 03:30 PM   #39
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My preference is to ride the highest class that I can plausibly manage without fiving many sections. I find it more fun and that I learn more quickly that way.

I've found other trials riders to be extremely generous teachers. My first event a pro rider happened to be in attendance and he spent a half hour teaching me stuff. After the event I rode with a couple of int./exp. riders for a couple of hours and learned a lot more. After hours I try to ride the course setout for one or two levels up. I generally have pretty poor balance and suck if hopping is required or if there are really technical turns. I generally do ok on bigger obstacles that require more aggression than skill
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:36 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by BikePilot View Post
My preference is to ride the highest class that I can plausibly manage without fiving many sections. I find it more fun and that I learn more quickly that way.

I've found other trials riders to be extremely generous teachers. My first event a pro rider happened to be in attendance and he spent a half hour teaching me stuff. After the event I rode with a couple of int./exp. riders for a couple of hours and learned a lot more. After hours I try to ride the course setout for one or two levels up. I generally have pretty poor balance and suck if hopping is required or if there are really technical turns. I generally do ok on bigger obstacles that require more aggression than skill
BikePilot, you are exceptional rider is sounds, however many are not. People need help in this normally you got better help from a pro, that 90% at least could probably not use when at novice (beginner levels) of course depending on what he actually was teaching you.

The premise actually is, and has withstood the test of countless riders and lot of time. beginners learn turns, throttle and "save yourself" skills, aka cover the clutch stuff like that. My brother is a novice-Amature trials rider when he wants to ride, but he's an expert level motocross, notice I didn't say pro, he's just been "MX'n" as long as I have trials... he has kind of the weary stance you have, feels comfortable on many things about trials, to a "novice" degree, and won't really work on them, because he's riddin bikes since he was 6, (before I was even born) but just not trials as such.

I try to not force people but encourage the hell out of getting good at trials via levels. this means mastering balance, turns, small things. get that so you do it in your sleep, on hills, in brick piles, etc. Then of course sections I setup for even novice practices, are harder than I expect novice at an event to be, because they will be on their own at the event, and prepared because it should seem like nothing scarier than, what I have worked them out on before hand.

Get good, master it in levels... Im not talking about just beating others in your class, beat the sections, beat the trials master's plan, accept the challenge... I mean 5 point day or less, then you might be ready, IF the trials wasn't one of those easy trials that happen once in a while, at most any club.

we had a easy trial for my class, I should have been clean, got 2 for the whole day, which placed me 2nd (UUUUGH!), but most of the time I'm (as well as Motobene) are still very challenged with 25-35 points, so no I probably no hurry to move up.
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:56 AM   #41
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opnion on class

I am entering my first trials event held in Meriden, CT by NETA. I really have no clue how I compare to other beginner riders and what to expect. I am 50 years old and have about 45 good hours riding time on a trials bike.

So as a first timer my question is should I enter the Senior C or Novice C class?

Thanks for any input and help.
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:21 AM   #42
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Question Hmmm... Good question.

Not really an answer but... Even after about 35+ hours of good mentoring, and lots of off-road exp., I found I still started out in novice and was glad I did.

Jut my 2 cents for what it's worth.
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:25 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by toro618 View Post
I am entering my first trials event held in Meriden, CT by NETA. I really have no clue how I compare to other beginner riders and what to expect. I am 50 years old and have about 45 good hours riding time on a trials bike.

So as a first timer my question is should I enter the Senior C or Novice C class?

Thanks for any input and help.
Welcome to the Dark Side! hope I can enlighten you a little, you have to make those decisions, me not seeing you ride and not knowing the class difficulty class structure (names)...

Well, you need to arrive at the event early, ask about which sections and lines (splits or markers you have to follow in the sections) would be yours (and an obvious giveaway might be, are they both ridden at same time?).

In the plains (Me in Kansas) our club & neighboring club (dependant on turnout and weather of course) and some clubs near me, ride morning (lower skill classes) then afternoon (higher skill classes) but YOUR new club might not?

Being used to teaching new riders, but not necessarily aware of your club's class structure, its going to be impossible to tell from here. but, I am betting novice, but if you go walk a few sections, you should sort of be able to make a decision on difficulty that way. you will have "ribbon-itus" as in when the section is marked and for "score" easy stuff seems harder. It is supposed to be that way, lol. Trials master disguise tricky parts sometimes, lol.

Next thing...

"Senior" more often than not; means FOR riders that have ridden for a long time, are probably older, and are NOT working out to move up, like most other riders. IT is not just "older guys & gals", in other words. Because Age brings some limitations, one of them being speed of healing, lol. My dad rode in my class in 06, slipped and broke his collarbone clear off his shoulder. I was in Intermediate then. For safety sake more than skills, he rides Sr Amature now.
BTW, our class structure is this: (difficulty; easier to hardest)

Novice

Amature Class for younger riders learning more skills,

Senior Amature This class is for older riders that wont ride difficult (upper class type) intermediate sections anymore harder than amature, but technically just scoring class difference in many states...

intermediate---\ this class is for those going up,

Sr Expert ---/ This class is for those older riders moving down

expert

Master.

Amature is challenging for people with good basic novice skills, Nove should be challenging to NEW riders (most of us were new once) So amatuer imho is for those that are well versed beginner has more difficulty stuff, and have ridden a year or so for most...

Sr Amature at our club, has tighter splits, more difficulty, for the older salty dogs of trials. I don't like to ride against these guys, my class (sr Expert) many times has bigger obstacles and scarier stuff, but not as tough tight ass turns! dad can out turn me, if I am not on my game, some days.

Ask me more if you want more?
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:43 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by toro618 View Post
I am entering my first trials event held in Meriden, CT by NETA. I really have no clue how I compare to other beginner riders and what to expect. I am 50 years old and have about 45 good hours riding time on a trials bike.

So as a first timer my question is should I enter the Senior C or Novice C class?

Thanks for any input and help.
You should be able to get some guidance when signing up, or better yet, if you have contact info for the Trial marshal, get a recommendation in advance.
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:48 AM   #45
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Thanks for the advice. Mostly likely, I will walk the sections and decide before the start. I was under the impression that Senior C would be a lower class than a Novice.
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