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Old 09-28-2013, 09:55 AM   #46
Stinky151
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Good catch, I missed that. Whatever your branches rules are, they apply 100% of the time, on duty or off, on base or off.
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Old 09-28-2013, 12:13 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Jim Moore View Post
I'm a little surprised that some of you guys are getting pissed at gate guards when they don't immediately allow you to violate base policy because you have a pretty jacket on.

For those of you who have never figured out how to get along in the world, here's how you handle it. You say, "Hey, thanks brother. Listen, I don't mean to be a pain in the ass, but I need to chat with your Gunny. He around?"

Then you talk to the Gunny. Now, this is important. You say, "Hey Gunny, your guy out on the gate is doing a great job. He's polite. He's professional. He's squared away. He says he's not gonna let me in if I don't have a reflective vest. He's right, I don't. But I have this jacket with all this refective material. Am I good to go?" And presto, you're in. It really is that simple.
Well first it isn't a violation of post policy it's something different than what they normally see. As the policy is written it states that they have to have so much reflective gear, ie. a reflective vest will cover it. Some posts allowed for a PT belt.

Second, as the OP stated, he's in the Air Force and many of us that posted up are in the Army. We don't have a Gunny. The gates are ran by civilians. I've talked to the civilian who supervised the main gate of Ft Hood. He couldn't understand that the reg stated that I need 144 sq inches of bright color of clothing BUT it never stated that it had to be on the torso like he wanted. He carried on saying that it was HIS gate, HIS rules. I finally took off my leather vest, went down 2 lights and then put it back on.

Now at Ft Leonard Wood they're having MP's assist in checking ID's. I don't know who has the final say or who is in charge.

I've had a couple civilian guards give me a hard time about wearing a full face because they couldn't see my whole head. They let me go but kept telling me to pull down on my chin piece.

There's more stories dealing with explosives coming through the gate but it comes down to them being the lowest on the chain and them not understanding fully what's going on.

So, it's not really that simple.
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Old 09-28-2013, 03:30 PM   #48
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It's a letter of the law thing, the gate guards doesn't get paid to translate the reg they they get paid to enforce it, even the Gunny.

look, if we're going to get in to the letter of the law anyone who takes PPE off out side the gate is wrong the DODI says it will be worn. Also if you take PPE off and you have an accident they can deny your benefits.

Yes, I used DODI. DOD gets first crack at it then everyone in the chain gets to add too but not take away, that's why you can have so many differences in policy, even if the bases are just a cross the street from each other.
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Old 09-30-2013, 12:03 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by justafurnaceman View Post
Now at Ft Leonard Wood they're having MP's assist in checking ID's. I don't know who has the final say or who is in charge.
Yeah, well... FLW has a bit of a surplus in the MP department.

A couple years ago I was there for Child Unit's OSUT graduation. The lines where long, the MP in my lane gave me a signal any motorcycle safety instructor in the country recognizes as "STOP". So I did... when what he wanted (the increasingly agitated young MP informed me) was for me to drive forward, THEN stop. I asked him why he didn't signal that? He said he did. Someone with another stripe and half a brain cell heard both sides of it, asked if he'd checked our IDs, and was explaining as I drove away that not everyone is going to read his mind and may not know what he really wants.

Quote:
I've had a couple civilian guards give me a hard time about wearing a full face because they couldn't see my whole head. They let me go but kept telling me to pull down on my chin piece.
Erm? That sequence made no sense unless you meant 'modular' helmet.

Quote:
So, it's not really that simple.
Agreed. Walk a mile in their shoes, etc. (That way if you still disagree, you're a mile away, and they don't have shoes on.)
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Old 09-30-2013, 12:56 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justafurnaceman View Post
Well first it isn't a violation of post policy it's something different than what they normally see. As the policy is written it states that they have to have so much reflective gear, ie. a reflective vest will cover it. Some posts allowed for a PT belt.

Second, as the OP stated, he's in the Air Force and many of us that posted up are in the Army. We don't have a Gunny. The gates are ran by civilians. I've talked to the civilian who supervised the main gate of Ft Hood. He couldn't understand that the reg stated that I need 144 sq inches of bright color of clothing BUT it never stated that it had to be on the torso like he wanted. He carried on saying that it was HIS gate, HIS rules. I finally took off my leather vest, went down 2 lights and then put it back on.

Now at Ft Leonard Wood they're having MP's assist in checking ID's. I don't know who has the final say or who is in charge.

I've had a couple civilian guards give me a hard time about wearing a full face because they couldn't see my whole head. They let me go but kept telling me to pull down on my chin piece.

There's more stories dealing with explosives coming through the gate but it comes down to them being the lowest on the chain and them not understanding fully what's going on.

So, it's not really that simple.
Everybody has a Gunny. He may be called "senior airman." He may be called "chief." Whatever he's called, he's the man to talk to. Berating a gate guard will only get you a look of mildly amused contempt as he turns you around and sends you on your way.

Yes, it is really that simple.
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Old 09-30-2013, 01:08 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
Erm? That sequence made no sense unless you meant 'modular' helmet.
Lol... sorry, I did write that wrong. While holding on to my ID he held it up and told me to pull down my chin piece. Apparently he couldn't see my face enough to confirm that it was me in the picture on the ID.

... maybe he was confused because I have a 'stache in the picture and I shaved it off.

Don't get me wrong guys, I feel sympathetic to them. It can't be easy just standing there for hours.
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Old 09-30-2013, 09:59 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justafurnaceman View Post
Second, as the OP stated, he's in the Air Force and many of us that posted up are in the Army. We don't have a Gunny. The gates are ran by civilians. I've talked to the civilian who supervised the main gate of Ft Hood. He couldn't understand that the reg stated that I need 144 sq inches of bright color of clothing BUT it never stated that it had to be on the torso like he wanted. He carried on saying that it was HIS gate, HIS rules. I finally took off my leather vest, went down 2 lights and then put it back on.

Now at Ft Leonard Wood they're having MP's assist in checking ID's. I don't know who has the final say or who is in charge.
Provost Marshall's office. Or the CG if you got the cajones to bug him/her about it.
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Old 10-01-2013, 03:55 AM   #53
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Provost Marshall's office. Or the CG if you got the cajones to bug him/her about it.
Here in Korea it would be the Installation Security Manager at garrison headquarters, usually a civilian.
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Old 10-01-2013, 06:18 PM   #54
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We've been thru this discussion before. GI's and motorcycle crashes
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Old 10-06-2013, 08:24 AM   #55
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Along with the reflective requirements, on Hill AFB the color of your coat/vest had to fall inside the dark line shown here:

I'da loved to seen the meeting where they figured that out....

Ironically I couldn't wear my jacket on base because it's reflective grey color wasn't within that chart; however, they let me ride on if I took the jacket off, as I had on a white dress shirt with long sleeves (it was bright enough and long-sleeved, met the requirements!)

I'm 6'5" and the orange vests at the BX were very short on me, looked like cheap lingerie, so I bought HiViz yellow summer and winter coats. Was pretty pissed when they then dropped the requirement altogether (I'd heard here that the Union had pushed to eliminate the requirement). However, I do seem to think I've had fewer "close calls" since wearing the Yellow, so I don't grouse about it anymore.
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Old 10-18-2013, 06:53 AM   #56
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I just read the memorandum for Fort Bliss. They have dropped the vest/reflective belt requirement. But you still need brightly colored clothing (reflective bits are suggested) for night riding.

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Old 10-18-2013, 08:32 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botch View Post
Along with the reflective requirements, on Hill AFB the color of your coat/vest had to fall inside the dark line shown here:

I'da loved to seen the meeting where they figured that out....

Ironically I couldn't wear my jacket on base because it's reflective grey color wasn't within that chart; however, they let me ride on if I took the jacket off, as I had on a white dress shirt with long sleeves (it was bright enough and long-sleeved, met the requirements!)

I'm 6'5" and the orange vests at the BX were very short on me, looked like cheap lingerie, so I bought HiViz yellow summer and winter coats. Was pretty pissed when they then dropped the requirement altogether (I'd heard here that the Union had pushed to eliminate the requirement). However, I do seem to think I've had fewer "close calls" since wearing the Yellow, so I don't grouse about it anymore.

BTW...meant to say thanks for posting the graphic. I found the link for it and forwarded to the USAREUR safety folks to make their own version. It makes the CG's new policy letter much clearer...at least somewhat idiot proof.
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Old 10-18-2013, 08:41 AM   #58
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reminds Me
20 years ago I rode with a buddy a couple of hours to an AFB to buy a truck
I had 6k cash in my pocket and We were wearing helmets

as soon as We hit the gate they made us park and walk a mile to the base housing to see the seller since We didn't have the proper AF gear
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Old 10-18-2013, 07:08 PM   #59
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Our respective services can't even agree upon a single camouflage pattern and some of you expect them to have the same requirements for a Hi-Viz Reflective garment on a motorcycle?!?

Redstone Arsenal (Army) has been Hi-Viz reflective belt visible above the waist for several years. Above the waist has included being wrapped around a rucksack on the rider's back.
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Old 10-18-2013, 07:31 PM   #60
dolomoto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botch View Post
Along with the reflective requirements, on Hill AFB the color of your coat/vest had to fall inside the dark line shown here:

I'da loved to seen the meeting where they figured that out....

Ironically I couldn't wear my jacket on base because it's reflective grey color wasn't within that chart; however, they let me ride on if I took the jacket off, as I had on a white dress shirt with long sleeves (it was bright enough and long-sleeved, met the requirements!)

I'm 6'5" and the orange vests at the BX were very short on me, looked like cheap lingerie, so I bought HiViz yellow summer and winter coats. Was pretty pissed when they then dropped the requirement altogether (I'd heard here that the Union had pushed to eliminate the requirement). However, I do seem to think I've had fewer "close calls" since wearing the Yellow, so I don't grouse about it anymore.

That brochure is ridiculous. I've written two Wing policies which simply required "contrasting colors during day, reflective at night". Easy for LE to assess, easy for riders to comply. That chart defies explanation.

Show me where that gear makes a motorider safer.
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