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Old 09-30-2013, 07:07 PM   #31
jehu
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KTM should build a 750cc SE. Ducati should put different wheels, a bigger tank and slightly more suspension travel on the Hypermotard(s) and/or make a smaller Multistrada that isn't so ugly.
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Old 10-02-2013, 11:35 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by JTucker View Post
It all comes down to what they know they can sell. I saw at least a couple hundred bikes while out riding today. Of those maybe a dozen were something other than a cruiser or bagger.
Unfortunately, I don't have any confidence that Honda knows it ass from it's elbow. Not saying they're bad, but three different derivatives of a 500 twin? Plus the NC700. And the CBR250? C'mon, there aren't that many newbs or cheapskates out there for these to sell. Plus Honda hasn't exactly had success ($$) when they try and break the mold, ala GB500, NT650, Pacific Coast, CB-1, Rune, all great bikes (except the Rune, which just WTF?), but still were sales flops.
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Old 10-02-2013, 11:44 AM   #33
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The CrossRunner would be a nifty alternative to the VFR, though it really should be a shafty given how heavy it already is. Why quibble over a few lbs more? Without that, it would be up against the lighter and more capable Tiger twins.

This. From Motorcyclist's 2006 smart money:
"the 781cc V-fours 97-horse peak is less improtant the power spread between 5000 and 10,000rpm. If you have a pulse, these four gear-driven cams pushing 16 valves at 10,500 rpm will quicken it."
Why oh why Honda, don't we still get this great engine? Even as a supersport tourer, my back doesn't enjoy the riding position of a VFR anymore. As an ADV style bike, with the ponies to do two-up and slabbing with ease, I realize that this won't appeal to single-trackers out there but damn, I gotta think that the crossrunner would sell like hotcakes here.
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Old 10-02-2013, 12:28 PM   #34
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I like several of the offerings now and would consider an 800 Tiger if it was JUST ME on the bike.Two-up riding with a +size wife can get kinda hairy when your only 5'8" to start with.It almost forces me into a road bike that I feel "ok" for gravel or graded dirt riding.I need a sturdy suspension not miles of travel.

Always trade-offs with that combo

Although I did sit on a MG Stelvio with the seat in the low position and I think once me and the wife were on it I (might) be alright.
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Old 10-02-2013, 01:41 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by xrcris View Post
Why oh why Honda, don't we still get this great engine? Even as a supersport tourer, my back doesn't enjoy the riding position of a VFR anymore. As an ADV style bike, with the ponies to do two-up and slabbing with ease, I realize that this won't appeal to single-trackers out there but damn, I gotta think that the crossrunner would sell like hotcakes here.
I'd have to agree. Looking at the UK price it appears it would coming around $14k, "about" right for the market but with the usual "slightly higher" Honda pricing.

This commentary from Motorcycle news 'bout sums it up I think.

MCN overall verdict rating is 4;

"The Crossrunner has already proved controversial for being passed off as a new bike when, effectively, it’s little more than a re-worked, re-styled nine-year-old VFR800 with some ‘parts bin’ equipment. But there’s no denying that, as a concept, as a two-wheeled ‘cross-over’ machine, the Crossrunner simply works. It’s one of the best, friendliest and truly versatile bikes around – anywhere. Riding it is the proof. I was certainly sceptical before I climbed on board. Within a mile it was among my best bikes of recent years."


I would be much more interested in this bike than the very confused VFR1200F they sell here now.

It seems to me Honda's product planning dept has been way out of touch with the American market for some time now. The new CB500 line up and CB1100 are a step in the right direction but they have a few other existing bikes they could bring in to fill out the gaps and perk sales.

It's been a loooong time since I've been interested in anything Honda had for sale.
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Old 10-02-2013, 02:59 PM   #36
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The FZ09 is 414lbs wet and $7,999, a great point to start. How much weight and cost to add 3" of travel and a gallon or 2 of gas? Or how much weight can be cut by lopping off a cylinder and still having 70+HP?

Offer it naked, but with some type of a wind protection option, like a modern Vetter or something that you can put on and take off.

Make wheels swappable. Sell it with 19" and 17" combo but also offer a 21" dirt or 17" cast option for the front, and 18" dirt for the rear. Imagine being able to choose another wheel size without having to worry about axle size, caliper alignment and hub width!

People customize their bikes anyway so might as well leverage that from the get go. Some will opt for the stock version as an ADV, another for a dirty version, still another for the SM version, and some of us all 3! Truly 1 bike to do it all.

Or throw the Phazer snowmobile 500cc motor in the WR250R chasis and let the aftermarket take care of bigger tanks, wind protection and luggage options.

Like others have said.. it doesn't seem that hard.
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Old 10-03-2013, 09:28 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by tokyo View Post
Offer it naked, but with some type of a wind protection option, like a modern Vetter or something that you can put on and take off.

Make wheels swappable. Sell it with 19" and 17" combo but also offer a 21" dirt or 17" cast option for the front, and 18" dirt for the rear. Imagine being able to choose another wheel size without having to worry about axle size, caliper alignment and hub width!

People customize their bikes anyway so might as well leverage that from the get go. Some will opt for the stock version as an ADV, another for a dirty version, still another for the SM version, and some of us all 3! Truly 1 bike to do it all.
I totally agree, I'd LOVE to see a modular "build it for your needs" style of motorcycles. Start with the basic bike and have a build checklist of items that can be bolted on, wheels, fuel tanks, seats, wind protection. Have the various items warehoused so you could buy the extra/different items if you wanted to go transformer on your bike for different roles.

How many people would love to have a second set of wheels at a reasonable price? $500 for a set of wheels complete with bearings is not unreasonable. I recently paid very close to that for a set of new cast wheels for my Moto Guzzi Stelvio so I can mount street tires on the cast wheels and dirt tires on the wire wheels.

Or maybe 2 different sized fuel tanks? I think the previously mentioned quick detach wind protection idea rocks.

Harley has made a ton of money off of this very concept. They have some of the slickest quick detach windshields (one lever ~10 seconds), luggage, backrests/pillion seats, etc. and they offer a monumental amount of optional stuff for the bikes so buyers can make their bike the way they need/want it to be. You know they make good money off the stuff so why don't the Japanese companies see this as an avenue for more profit? I see a little of it but no where near what should/could be.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tokyo View Post
Or throw the Phazer snowmobile 500cc motor in the WR250R chasis and let the aftermarket take care of bigger tanks, wind protection and luggage options.

Like others have said.. it doesn't seem that hard.
I wasn't aware of the recent Phazer engine, very interesting. From the Wiki.

Yamaha released a bold new snowmobile under the Phazer name-plate for the 2007 model year. [1] The snowmobile featured a radical new design which is inspired from the YZ250F motocross bike. The new Phazer is powered by a new 80hp 499cc fuel-injected liquid-cooled four-stroke twin which makes its peak power at 11,000RPM. The engine is based on Yamaha's highly successful and dependable YZ250F dirt bike engine.

It sounds like the Sled guys are getting the cool tech stuff we're missing. I don't know if it's a EPA thing or ??? But bring it on, 80 hp from a 500cc twin makes Honda's CB500 twins look pretty lame in comparison.
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Old 10-03-2013, 06:48 PM   #38
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We wont see any snowmobile or motocross engines in production street bikes here in America because they wont pass emissions. An SV650 engine wont fit a DR650 frame without drastic changes to the frame. Right now cruisers are what sell in the largest numbers so that is what they invest in. Id like to see a fuel injected DR650 or even a fuel injected street legal XR650R. We wont be seeing any purpose built engines just because of production costs and those 2 older engines might not pass newer emissions standards. So far the DR and KLR still do but for how long. If the economy ever gets better Honda Kawasaki and Suzuki might be willing to invest in some modern big singles but not till then will they ever consider it. A more dirt worthy Versys would only take sales away from the KLR so dont expect that to happen. A lighter cheaper midsize Tenere might be nice. Hondas NC700x engine would be nice in a frame it didnt share with a scooter.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:20 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by xrcris View Post
[/INDENT]Why oh why Honda, don't we still get this great engine? Even as a supersport tourer, my back doesn't enjoy the riding position of a VFR anymore. As an ADV style bike, with the ponies to do two-up and slabbing with ease, I realize that this won't appeal to single-trackers out there but damn, I gotta think that the crossrunner would sell like hotcakes here.
I used to have a Sabre 700. Got it used in 91, fixed it up, painted it metallic blue, made it work well and it really, REALLY was a nice bike. It was almost dead quiet at 80mph. And the engine had plenty of power and never had to work hard. It also was much torquier than my buddy's not even close Suzuki 750. When I got the Hawk, it was a total bummer having to live with chain noise. Yes, it was kinda heavy, but sports tourers can be a little heavier, because it gives them some stability and smoothness that super light bikes don't quite have. Great for babe hauling, which I did regularly. Got stolen.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:29 PM   #40
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Hondas NC700x engine would be nice in a frame it didnt share with a scooter.
Why does the frame matter? The frame works for that design because the engine is long and leaned forward, so the frame goes around the engine instead of in front.

So the better solution is a triple version of the 500x engine with chain drive, and convert the new NC750 engine to shaft drive.
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Old 10-05-2013, 05:01 AM   #41
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The main reason most of the "adventure" bikes sell is not for their off road ability but instead for the "standard" riding position. Thus the more cost effective option for the builders is to produce bikes that look the part by tweaking current production lines.

This is what Honda, Kawi, Suzuki are doing for that very reason.

Hp is a huge selling point even though for most riders a 60Hp bike is more than enough but in north america a bike is a toy and what is needed rarely comes into the decision.
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Old 10-05-2013, 09:16 AM   #42
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The main reason most of the "adventure" bikes sell is not for their off road ability but instead for the "standard" riding position. Thus the more cost effective option for the builders is to produce bikes that look the part by tweaking current production lines.
Definitely. It would be nice however, if they used some upscale parts from the bin, rather than the budget crap picked so far.

Quote:
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Hp is a huge selling point even though for most riders a 60Hp bike is more than enough but in north america a bike is a toy and what is needed rarely comes into the decision.
Three comments about "more than enough power":
1) Depends on what you ride, who you ride with and most importantly, what they ride. I had a NT650 Hawk when new, and it was a great bike, light, handled well, cool styling, cutting edge with the ss swingarm, Al frame, fat rear tire - but a hell of a lot slower than the FZR600's my friends rode. That got old quick.
2) As a commuter, I want to enough power on tap now to get away from the cage when the distracted dumbass does something stupid. This happens way too often.
3) Maybe most important, sometimes you just want to be a hooligan and whack the throttle, in this case more is always better.
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Old 10-05-2013, 09:56 AM   #43
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You are the person the Manufactures have targeted. Adventure to most seems to me mostly street with the ability to do a dirt road once in while.

I could live with a 60 hp multi cylinder, if the bike was lighter. A 7/8th size F800 would do just fine. You can't use all the HP off road and that snappy throttle response is not something you want to feel sometimes.
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Old 10-05-2013, 04:45 PM   #44
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Old 10-05-2013, 07:56 PM   #45
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The V7s are so damned tempting, but the Scrambler......that's just begging me to rob a bank.
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