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Old 10-01-2013, 04:40 PM   #16
Mr Fast OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuna Helper View Post
Is this thread supposed to be fore beginning never been on a bike riders, or those who have experience but want to do track days riders?
These comments should help any kind of rider. Even remind experienced riders about things they might have forgotten!
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Old 10-01-2013, 04:52 PM   #17
High Country Herb
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Here is a little technique I learned after 2 decades of street riding:

In corners, keep your back pointed straight into the corner, and stretch your neck out like you're trying to cross the finish line with your head first. It sounds odd, but let me explain.

After bumbling along for many years, I bought an Aprilia that inspired me to make more use of what the bike had to offer. My weakest skill was cornering, and my very experienced friend had told me that smoothness brings speed naturally. I tried to take a steady line through corners as I crouched low on the bike, but that wasn't getting me anywhere. I began watching the body position of professional racers, and it looked as if they were attempting to remain ahead of the bike's center of gravity as it pushed them through the corner, rather than hanging from the handlebars.

I tried it, and walla! smooth, steady corners. I think it has something to do with rotational momentum. Crouched down, the bike is free to wobble about like a figure skater with her arms tucked in. With my body stretched ahead of the bike's center of mass, no wobble. Works for me, give it a try.
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Old 10-01-2013, 07:08 PM   #18
dirty_t
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Not sure what the smiley is for 'reinventing the wheel' - but if there was one for that I'd insert it on this thread.

There is so much information on this topic - even the simple topic of how to corner properly - that you could probably write a book about it. Oh, wait a minute. There *is* a book about it.Yes! Although it might forestall a good deal of snarking, sniping and mudslinging, a n00b could just pick up a copy of David Hough's most excellent book, Proficient Motorcycling, dip in and read up on whatever topic they happen to be wondering about, then go out and put a couple hundred (or thousand) miles of seat time in, working on whatever lesson they happened to read about.

Do that for 20 years or so, along with some track days and dirt riding, and you might just start getting the hang of this.

Details here: http://www.amazon.com/Proficient-Mot.../dp/1889540536

PS - anyone who sets 'dragging knee' as a goal for themselves is a poseur, imho. The goal should be cornering as fast and smoothly as possible. If get good at this, one day you may find your knee dragging (please tell me it was on a track, not on the street).
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Old 10-01-2013, 08:01 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Fast View Post
I've seen it seems (notice the rhythm) almost endless threads on how to ride a bike. Counter steering seems to be the big one but from my vantage point I would have to call it it counter bullshit. This esoteric crap is not helping people learn to ride a bike. It's a physical thing. It takes many hours on a bike before you have any ability to go back & reflect on your riding. So at this point I'll say if you want to go right, push right. If you want to go left, push left. What I would like for this thread to do is help Noob's & everyone else to ride a bike. To me, other than a dirt bike, the best way to learn how to ride is at a track day. So, let's go from there. I don't need sarcastic comments from posers with 20,000 posts. If you have that many you don't have time to ride a bike. Keep your comments to Jo Mama. So how do you make a turn? I'll keep it simple & leave it up to others to elaborate. This is old stuff but a few quick comments. The bigger contact patch the more traction you have. In cornering you sacrifice traction with braking. Ideally you don't brake in a corner but with experience you can trailbrake into a corner. The more upright your bike is in a turn the more traction you have & the faster you can go. Learn how to get off of the bike & drag a knee. You can read about that until you are blue in the face but it won't mean much until you do it & I mean time after time. This is something that is easy to say but is dificult in practice.
I'm going to reveal myself a little bit so that everyone knows where I'm coming from. I'm 65 years old. I'm in damn good shape for an old fart. I enjoy teaching. I club race (road racing) in Albuquerque but live in Arizona. I've raced in Baja. I've raced MX.
So let's have comments. Not bull shit. Help the Noobs & if your good enuff everyone else!!
This just sounds closed-minded to me. Have you stopped learning?
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Old 10-01-2013, 08:26 PM   #20
erkmania
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I guess that all of us want to be Zen Masters of riding a motorcycle and we each have our take on how motorcycles should be ridden. I expect that many respondents are accomplished riders and can bury a peg or broadslide at-will when circumstances dictate.

The key is to know WHEN and WHERE one should position their body a particular way for any given turn. This depends on the surface, the terrain and the turn. There's no doubt that we each want to take a turn at the maximum velocity that doesn't compromise our safety or well-being. Crashing sucks, hurts and costs; bike, ego and/or body. Maximum velocity feels good and we each have a maximum built into us.

Examples:

1 - The cops lean the bike under them during low speed drills just like dirt bike riders. I figure they do that because they are on top of the bike during maneuvers and if the bike losses (loses-spelling) traction then they remain on top of the bike instead of being pinned underneath.

2 - Dirt bike riders remain on top of their leaned bikes for the same reason so long as the terrain is level. In a steep berm then they are liable to lean into the turn when they feel that traction is secure. Watch SuperMoto and see how those competitors may do it both ways by leaning in or over the top of their bikes

3 - Asphalt riders are encouraged to lean inward of the leaning bike because of the prodigious traction. They sacrifice the safety of being on top of the bike, mid-turn, in exchange for the added safety of not dragging hard parts.

I'm being very brief here, but riding a motorcycle doesn't have a fixed manor (manner-spelling) in which to be ridden. There is a continuum and that continuum depends on the type of turn and what it is composed of.

Adventure riders may experience the broadest range of conditions. As such, a good overall rider must know when to hang-off or when to ride on top of the pony.

Proper riding isn't fixed in a singular protocol, it's based on the conditions and riding comprises a continuum. I think that is why SO much confusion exists on how to ride a motorcycle visa vie, 'should I counter-steer'?

Well,...it depends...

That's my take and I have been safe and excited for many years.

Cheers
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erkmania screwed with this post 11-28-2013 at 08:29 PM
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Old 10-01-2013, 08:34 PM   #21
DAKEZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Fast View Post
I've seen it seems (notice the rhythm) almost endless threads on how to ride a bike. Counter steering seems to be the big one but from my vantage point I would have to call it it counter bullshit. This esoteric crap is not helping people learn to ride a bike. It's a physical thing. It takes many hours on a bike before you have any ability to go back & reflect on your riding. So at this point I'll say if you want to go right, push right. If you want to go left, push left. What I would like for this thread to do is help Noob's & everyone else to ride a bike. To me, other than a dirt bike, the best way to learn how to ride is at a track day. So, let's go from there. I don't need sarcastic comments from posers with 20,000 posts. If you have that many you don't have time to ride a bike. Keep your comments to Jo Mama. So how do you make a turn? I'll keep it simple & leave it up to others to elaborate. This is old stuff but a few quick comments. The bigger contact patch the more traction you have. In cornering you sacrifice traction with braking. Ideally you don't brake in a corner but with experience you can trailbrake into a corner. The more upright your bike is in a turn the more traction you have & the faster you can go. Learn how to get off of the bike & drag a knee. You can read about that until you are blue in the face but it won't mean much until you do it & I mean time after time. This is something that is easy to say but is dificult in practice.
I'm going to reveal myself a little bit so that everyone knows where I'm coming from. I'm 65 years old. I'm in damn good shape for an old fart. I enjoy teaching. I club race (road racing) in Albuquerque but live in Arizona. I've raced in Baja. I've raced MX.
So let's have comments. Not bull shit. Help the Noobs & if your good enuff everyone else!!
1404 post to go before I can't post.
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Old 10-02-2013, 12:22 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bollocks View Post
Edit: the other thing if ya riding thru town below 5 mph don't use the front brake because you run the risk of grabbing it and upsetting the front end just use the rear brake to slow down in traffic and keep with the flow.
.
Don't do this. Learn to use the front brake correctly, don't be a ham fist, and this won't be any problem at all.
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Old 10-02-2013, 01:02 AM   #23
tkent02
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For all of you who still don't know how to steer a bike, are you sure you are ready for one with a motor?
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Old 10-02-2013, 04:36 AM   #24
omeoxlv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherguy View Post
Do you pull on the bars to pick it up on exit/transition or push the opposite side?

Pick it up I think, maybe a bit of both. Good question, will have to check it.
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Old 10-02-2013, 05:12 AM   #25
DC2wheels
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bollocks View Post
I think it's 70% front brake 30% back if I remember correctly.
You are going over the bars- for sure.

Even loud pipes aren't gonna' save you.

Better contact Darla.....if you insist on using the front brake, only a gremlin bell can save your skin
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Old 10-02-2013, 05:17 AM   #26
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Brake bias depends on just how hard you're braking. The harder you decelerate the less effective the rear brake is. If you think I'm wrong you just haven't been fast enough.
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Old 10-02-2013, 05:27 AM   #27
chippertheripper
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This may be semantics at this point, but pushing right to go right IS counter steering. It's the exact opposite of turning the bars right to go right...or should I say counter?
And this cannot be said enough, on the street, the racetrack, or in the woods: look where you want to go.
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:41 AM   #28
ZiaThunder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherguy View Post
Do you pull on the bars to pick it up on exit/transition or push the opposite side?


I think about pushing the bike up right as I exit the turn. At the same time lowering my head more. The faster it's upright the faster and harder I can go to the throttle stop. (Correct, only on a race track.)
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:42 AM   #29
ZiaThunder
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Nicely stated.


Quote:
Originally Posted by erkmania View Post
I guess that all of us want to be Zen Masters of riding a motorcycle and we each have our take on how motorcycles should be ridden. I expect that many respondents are accomplished riders and can bury a peg or broadslide at-will when circumstances dictate.

The key is to know WHEN and WHERE one should position their body a particular way for any given turn. This depends on the surface, the terrain and the turn. There's no doubt that we each want to take a turn at the maximum velocity that doesn't compromise our safety or well-being. Crashing sucks, hurts and costs; bike, ego and/or body. Maximum velocity feels good and we each have a maximum built into us.

Examples:

1 - The cops lean the bike under them during low speed drills just like dirt bike riders. I figure they do that because they are on top of the bike during maneuvers and if the bike losses traction then they remain on top of the bike instead of being pinned underneath.

2 - Dirt bike riders remain on top of their leaned bikes for the same reason so long as the terrain is level. In a steep berm then they are liable to lean into the turn when they feel that traction is secure. Watch SuperMoto and see how those competitors may do it both ways by leaning in or over the top of their bikes

3 - Asphalt riders are encouraged to lean inward of the leaning bike because of the prodigious traction. They sacrifice the safety of being on top of the bike, mid-turn, in exchange for the added safety of not dragging hard parts.

I'm being very brief here, but riding a motorcycle doesn't have a fixed manor in which to be ridden. There is a continuum and that continuum depends on the type of turn and what it is composed of.

Adventure riders may experience the broadest range of conditions. As such, a good overall rider must know when to hang-off or when to ride on top of the pony.

Proper riding isn't fixed in a singular protocol, it's based on the conditions and riding comprises a continuum. I think that is why SO much confusion exists on how to ride a motorcycle visa vie, 'should I counter-steer'?

Well,...it depends...

That's my take and I have been safe and excited for many years.

Cheers
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Old 10-02-2013, 12:11 PM   #30
Mr Fast OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherguy View Post
Brake bias depends on just how hard you're braking. The harder you decelerate the less effective the rear brake is. If you think I'm wrong you just haven't been fast enough.
For sure. If you've really clamped on the front binder, your back tire is going to be very light.
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