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Old 10-04-2013, 05:35 PM   #46
anotherguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bollocks View Post
what does ATGATT mean.
If you're serious click me. If you're not serious click me.
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Old 11-28-2013, 08:45 PM   #47
erkmania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherguy View Post
If you're serious click me. If you're not serious click me.
Just going over old posts to see if I forgot to respond to anyone and I saw your post.

Let me just say, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFlCD5CYAcU
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Old 11-28-2013, 10:01 PM   #48
SkiFastBadly
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Countersteering argument? Check.
Oil mentioned? Check
CS? Check
Front vs. rear brake argument? Check

Where's the "Lay 'er down" comment?
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Old 11-28-2013, 10:03 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by chippertheripper View Post
This may be semantics at this point, but pushing right to go right IS counter steering. It's the exact opposite of turning the bars right to go right...or should I say counter?
And this cannot be said enough, on the street, the racetrack, or in the woods: look where you want to go.
Sorry but pushing right to go right don't seem right especially if it's the exact opposite of turning right to go right if that is counter .... counter to what?

So explain it to me one more time. Do I push right on the left side to go right or push left on the right side to go left, or push left on the right side to go right or push right on the left side to go left.

I'm glad it's too cold to ride, I'm so confused I probably couldn't get off my own street.

..
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Old 11-29-2013, 05:29 AM   #50
anotherguy
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Don't be confused. If you can ride without running into things all day you're already doing it right.

OK. You must first create a primary imbalance by slightly turning the bars opposite to the direction you wish to turn causing the motorcycle to fall ever so slightly towards the side you wish to turn. As it begins to fall that way you then turn the bars an appropriate amount to control the fall thus turning the motorcycle.

To do that you can either pull the opposite side of the bars or push the direction you wish to turn. This initiates the turn then you correct. It's a constant tiny input in both directions to stay on a line.
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Old 11-29-2013, 06:51 AM   #51
markk53
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The take away from this thread is simply if you have to take the time to think out every move you are either going way too slow (ever get behind someone with no instincts for driving?) or you're going to crash soon.

People who can comprehend what is physically going on when on a single track vehicle, motorized or not, will find it quick and easy to ride. A number of people I know, including myself, seemed to learn to ride quite well without any actual scientific comprehension of the physics of countersteering - hell we were 16-17, we were lucky to remember what was taught in math class overnight! Like we're going to retain anything about countersteering.

Years later when the whole concept was proposed to me about bicycles - aka younger brother says, "Start riding about 10 mph and try to go left by steering left." and no way could it be done, I enjoyed the concept and promptly never thought of it again in any regular riding, on or off road. My actions developed without any science. They developed purely from riding and finding what did what. Really easy to do off road.

So, as simplistic and goofy as the opening post sounds, it purely makes sense... as much as I hate to say it. But once someone knows and can do the push/pull concept they should quit thinking about it in depth and just plain ride doing it over and over and over. Uh, that's also known as practice, ingraining that push/pull crap into one's almost involuntary reactions - conditioned response. Ever notice how some riders just seem to instinctively know which way to go when others don't? You know, one guy rides right around an obstacle while the other steers right into it. Pure near instant conditioned response through practice. Minimum mental processing needed, where the other guy does what they do through conditioning in cars - steer right into the hazard.

Now after all the years of riding whenever I actually try to think about the "push/pull" as I ride into and around a corner, I find that is such a minimal almost negligible part of what all is going on that it is hard to say "that is it for steering - push/pull". It among a host of other subtle actions make up what I am physically doing by conditioned response in any given corner. Depending on what is going on some of those actions aree more pronounced in evasive moves.

You never practice riding around the edge of some spot on the road "riding where you look", never practice some quick swerving like center line slaloms (my personal favorite on untraveled back roads, try doing between each dotted line at 60), building corner speeds and changing direction mid corner, you NEVER develop the needed conditioned responses for safer riding. All the talk in the world will never measure up to even minimal time praticing.

Hell, I can tell you how to execute a 2-1/2 flip off a diving board, but couldn't do it decently if my life depended on it... seems I never really practiced a good tuck or pointed toes on entry much less any of the rest of it.

Just sayin' all the talk is fine and dandy, but practice does make perfect ( or as near as we can get). Don't use it and you lose it.
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Old 11-29-2013, 07:48 AM   #52
concours
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Fast View Post
I've seen it seems (notice the rhythm) almost endless threads on how to ride a bike. Counter steering seems to be the big one but from my vantage point I would have to call it it counter bullshit. This esoteric crap is not helping people learn to ride a bike. It's a physical thing. It takes many hours on a bike before you have any ability to go back & reflect on your riding. So at this point I'll say if you want to go right, push right. If you want to go left, push left. What I would like for this thread to do is help Noob's & everyone else to ride a bike. To me, other than a dirt bike, the best way to learn how to ride is at a track day. So, let's go from there. I don't need sarcastic comments from posers with 20,000 posts. If you have that many you don't have time to ride a bike. Keep your comments to Jo Mama. So how do you make a turn? I'll keep it simple & leave it up to others to elaborate. This is old stuff but a few quick comments. The bigger contact patch the more traction you have. In cornering you sacrifice traction with braking. Ideally you don't brake in a corner but with experience you can trailbrake into a corner. The more upright your bike is in a turn the more traction you have & the faster you can go. Learn how to get off of the bike & drag a knee. You can read about that until you are blue in the face but it won't mean much until you do it & I mean time after time. This is something that is easy to say but is dificult in practice.
I'm going to reveal myself a little bit so that everyone knows where I'm coming from. I'm 65 years old. I'm in damn good shape for an old fart. I enjoy teaching. I club race (road racing) in Albuquerque but live in Arizona. I've raced in Baja. I've raced MX.
So let's have comments. Not bull shit. Help the Noobs & if your good enuff everyone else!!
LOL, Of course. Countersteering is a myth. You have the benefit of riding for decades, and dirt experience as well. As do I. So, the noob, mid-life newcomer to street mooresicklin is at a disadvantage. Shall we just let them practice and fall down, get better, like we did? Or try to share some science/wisdom to spare them the injuries that will surely come to an old body? Tell us, when a noob suddenly is faced with a Bluehair piloted Buick turning left in front of them, would it be better to have a basic understanding of counter-steering and have PRACTICED it a bit? Or simply revert back to their decades of ingrained four-wheel tactics that will drive them right INTO the very obstacle they wish to avoid?


"esoteric crap. counter-bullshit, I don't need sarcastic comments from posers, I'm going to reveal myself a little bit so that everyone knows where I'm coming from. I'm 65 years old. I'm in damn good shape for an old fart. I enjoy teaching. I club race (road racing) in Albuquerque but live in Arizona. I've raced in Baja. I've raced MX."

Looks like you've covered all the possibilities.
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Old 11-29-2013, 04:15 PM   #53
markk53
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Originally Posted by mrphotoman View Post
all you need is the biggest/widest car tire you can find then your bike will handle better than anything on the road.
It also helps if you run the cheapest car oil you can find, put forward mount pegs, and pull back bars too!
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Old 11-30-2013, 06:15 AM   #54
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Here we go with all the theoretical b.s. again. Keep it simple.

New to riding? Remember your bike will go where you look, so when you are in a curve or cornering, look where you want to go and not right in front of the front wheel. Turn your head.

Approaching a curve, slow down, downshift, then accelerate while looking at your destination.

Do this a lot, practice. That's what you need to know about that.

Want to learn clutch control? Pick an empty parking lot, keep the bike in first, and ride and stop without using the throttle. In a short time, you will have all the clutch control you need.

Lastly, get out and have fun! Smile a lot, don't try and keep up with anyone. Don't take your riding so seriously. Remember, we ride bikes because they are fun! Most of us don't do it for a living, but even those who do are also doing it for the fun!
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Old 12-01-2013, 06:41 AM   #55
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Just lean the fucking thing!
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Old 12-01-2013, 05:27 PM   #56
steve mount prospect
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I think of things I remind my self in the spring after a long layoff.

Look where you want to go and conversely don't look where you don't want to go.
Look as far ahead as you can, You can predict whats about to happen. You can't do anything about whats 1 maybe even 2 seconds ahead.
Use the whole lane and set up to look thru the turns.
If you can't stay in your lane your probably going to fast for you.
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Old 12-01-2013, 07:06 PM   #57
mtnbikeboy
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If you understand basic physics, this video does an excellent job of explaining exactly what's happening during countersteering.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgUOOwnZcDU
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Old 12-02-2013, 01:56 AM   #58
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I can't believe no one has mentioned standing on the pegs to lower COG
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Old 12-02-2013, 05:20 AM   #59
randyo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Fast View Post
the best way to learn how to ride is at a track day.
track day, smack day , bs, ya learn to go roundy round the same 12 turns with no education on the real road hazards, for one day of track fees you can ride nearly 2500 miles on the street


wanna learn to be smooth, ride on snow & ice
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:34 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randyo View Post
wanna learn to be smooth, ride on snow & ice
I'll pass. Don't wanna lay 'er down.
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