ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Gear > Vendors
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-31-2013, 05:31 PM   #91
tmotten
Lefthand ride Dutchy
 
tmotten's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Calgary
Oddometer: 2,455
Nice work.

Backpacks are developed with a different compromise in durability vs weight than motorcycle luggage should. For me abrasion is everything as sliding down a gravel road is not a risk, it's and inevitability.

Coates fabrics tend to score low in tests due to the fact that coating has next ro no impact on abrasion resistance which comes from the weave itself, and thus from the material this is woven with.

There are few tests for abrasion. Sadly the Taber test seems the most common, at least in Europe.

This video shows the misleading issues with it. I think this is due to the testing being based on rubbing of a stone. I think the sand paper based tests are more applicable for our purpose.

tmotten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2013, 04:20 AM   #92
scoutDad
IBA#203
 
scoutDad's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Location: near Barber Motorsports Park
Oddometer: 312
managing excess strap length

Osprey has the best system I have seen for dealing with excess strap length when it is not being used. There is a tab of velcro sewn to the end of the nylon strap such that one length of velcro extends perpendicular to the strap one way and the other length of velcro extends perpendicular from the nylon strap on the opposite side. You simply roll up the excess nylon strap that is not being used. The velcro straps wind up extending on each side from the center of the rolled up strap and you just connect the two velcro strips to each other and around the part of the nylon strap that is in tension near the connector. Excess strap is secured and stays in place, plus it is just a pull of the velcro tab to release it and use the extra nylon strap capacity.
__________________
scoutDad
Host of The Annual Last Ride of the Year
www.thelastrideoftheyear.com
06 KLX250, 07 KLX250, 06 KLX250
1 scoutDad, 2 Eagles, and 3 KLX’s heading to Colorado
scoutDad is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2013, 01:23 PM   #93
Sideoff OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Sideoff's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Hood River, OR
Oddometer: 446
Time to find a factory. The question is: where? Made in the USA feels good, and we get shorter lead times with smaller minimums. However there are so many more factories overseas, plus we can produce a much more interesting bag for the same cost. For a big company making thousands of bags the choice is easy. For little guys like us it’s harder.

Either way, just finding a few good factories to talk to (no matter where they’re located) is hard enough, let alone convincing them to pay attention to us. That’s the first step. We have a lead on one factory in Idaho and another in Oregon. Plus earlier this week we met with a Vietnamese factory who was in town to visit Nike. Country of origin might well be determined by which factory takes us seriously first.

Pannier:

This week we redesigned the pannier again, and I can now say with 100% confidence that we’re working on an item which I would definitely buy and use myself. That’s the benchmark Andrew and I set: if it’s not something we would actually buy and use vs all the other options on the market, then we won’t bother making it.

We added a large beavertail. This serves three purposes. 1) it is an awesome stash spot for stuff like a wet rainfly, rain jacket, or six pack. 2) it’s an abrasion barrier which can be easily patched or professionally repaired after a crash, because it can be folded away from the bag and run through a sewing machine. And 3) it provides a nice evenly balanced compression surface across the entire front side of the pannier. Here’s the initial beavertail pattern.



Here’s the beavertail drawn out on the second round proto. Also there’s a molle hydration pouch that we’ve been messing around with, and some hypalon cut for molle.



Hand cutting hypalon for our molle panels, which will be on the front and bottom of the pannier.



Rear Duffle:

We got our second round duffle prototype and although it’s very rough, we love it. It’s a double-ended roll top with overlapping beavertails on the top and backside. The beavertails can be used while the bag is strapped to the bike, so they’re great for jackets, tents, etc, and could also accommodate a small drybag.



There will be three sections of molle webbing, two on either side behind the rider (perfect for fuel bottles or small pouches/storage) and one large horizontal one on the outside of the front beavertail (which we picture being used for a hydration bladder). In this pic we’re experimenting with a fuel bottle in a molle bottle holder.



Here’s chip testing the stowable backpack straps.



Rackless System

After considering lots of different shapes/sizes, we like the Giant Loop approach the best, i.e. one integrated bag connecting the passenger footpegs to the rear of the bike. Working with that approach we want to integrate other features from our pannier and duffle, i.e.: roll top closures, large beavertails, external pockets, accessibility while strapped to the bike, 100% waterproof, and molle webbing. The waterproof part will be tricky because of the unusual shape, but we’ll create a proto and then figure out the waterproof part later.

Here’s Andrew & Chip working on initial sketches.



Apparel:

The world of cut & sew is large and intimidating, with big players, big factories, and large minimums. I had an opportunity to speak with the founder of Dragon Alliance last week (the goggle company) and one piece of advice he offered was: stay out of apparel! He was referring to the seasonal and fashion-oriented motocross stuff, but still… it made me think. Neither Andrew nor I have an apparel background and moto gear is extremely technical. Luckily we have a friend who works as a designer at a large moto apparel company. He also happens to be a hardcore dualsport/trail rider and he wants to help.

This week we’ve been looking at stuff that’s already on the market. A few thoughts:

- There is a lot of awesome gear out there. In the last few years it seems like the market has gone from sparse to crowded. It will be challenging to distinguish ourselves.

- Klim raised the bar with their multi-tiered dualsport introduction a few years ago. They have something for everyone, from the Adventure Rally kit at ~$2,100 all the way down to the Traverse kit at ~$500. Man, Klim has a huge product line. Looks like great stuff.

- Moto apparel tries to accomplish a lot of functionality with a single garment. Waterproofness. Abrasion resistance. Impact resistance. Wind stoppage. Moisture wicking. Venting/Cooling. Warmth. Pockets/Storage. Hydration. It’s crazy how much is expected from a single garment.

- I can’t help but wonder if the engineering has gotten a bit out of control? Maybe simpler would be better. How many pockets do we actually need? It might be better to focus on the primary features that core riders actually use, and skip the more gadgety features which appeal to riders on the fringe.

- Instead of getting all the functionality from a single garment, a lot of riders are separating the abrasion layer (i.e. a moto jacket without built-in armor), the waterproof layer (a waterproof jacket/liner worn either under/over the abrasion layer), and the impact layer (a pressure suit or body armor). There are a bunch of advrider threads on this. Reminds me of the layering systems in other outdoor sports.

- This is such a big project that it seems like the only approach is to dive in and just be confident that we’ll come up with something cool in the end. We’ll try that and see how it goes.

There was also some riding to be had this week, despite the weather.





Our first sponsor?

Sideoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2013, 01:40 PM   #94
MadM
Dreamer
 
MadM's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: Slovenia
Oddometer: 210
Following closely. I really like the Molle webbing idea. That duffel looks enormous, maybe something smaller for a single rider traveling light?
__________________
'08 Honda XL125V Varadero
'05 Kawasaki KLE 500
My Blog
MadM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2013, 02:11 PM   #95
LoJack
Beastly Adventurer
 
LoJack's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: B.G., yo!
Oddometer: 1,396
Very cool. Been following with interest.

I want that sticker!
LoJack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2013, 02:46 PM   #96
Sideoff OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Sideoff's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Hood River, OR
Oddometer: 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadM View Post
Following closely. I really like the Molle webbing idea. That duffel looks enormous, maybe something smaller for a single rider traveling light?
Dang you're right, it does look big. We haven't measured the liters yet we've been so focused on the design.

Up/downsizing is relatively easy. What do you think is an ideal size?

Ultimately we might need to do two sizes, probably not a one-size-fits-all type of item. Id does compress/expand well, but you can only go so far with that.
Sideoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2013, 02:47 PM   #97
Sideoff OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Sideoff's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Hood River, OR
Oddometer: 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoJack View Post
Very cool. Been following with interest.

I want that sticker!
Pm me you address and I'll put one in the mail. A friend of ours made them. I have a few extras.
Sideoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2013, 03:30 PM   #98
01001010 01000011
AKA-JC
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Oddometer: 321
Stickers, is there a line?
01001010 01000011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2013, 04:07 PM   #99
LoJack
Beastly Adventurer
 
LoJack's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: B.G., yo!
Oddometer: 1,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideoff View Post
Pm me you address and I'll put one in the mail. A friend of ours made them. I have a few extras.
Done! Thank you
LoJack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2013, 01:24 AM   #100
Three Dawg
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Three Dawg's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: The Highlands of Scotland
Oddometer: 486
Quote:
What do you think is an ideal size?
That duffel looks like a good 60 litres to me. I have a 40L Wolfman which is a handy size I find.
Three Dawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2013, 01:57 AM   #101
HaChayalBoded
Brooklyn Bored
 
HaChayalBoded's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: BRC \ NYC
Oddometer: 7,341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideoff View Post
What do you think is an ideal size?
Personally I must have something at least 24" wide by 12" deep. Height can be anywhere from 12"-15"

Most of the backpacking type of sleeping bags and pads are roughly 12" long (at least the dozen or so different items I have).

It just helps make packing easier.

Of the 20 or more MC tailbags, duffels, saddlebgas, tankbags, e.t.c. I own. For long trips my rear seat duffel of choice has always been the Cabelas boundary waters duffel. 24x12x12 rectangular.

rectangular instead of round gives you roughly a 35% increase in volume compared to the same length and width\height of a round duffel. Plus it makes packing much much easier. Also, it's doesn't roll away on ya.
HaChayalBoded is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2013, 07:29 AM   #102
btao
Pwned
 
Joined: Jul 2013
Location: Not far enough...
Oddometer: 965
Cool, great progress!

A duffel to me should just fit a tent, roll mat, and two sizes that can fit a sleeping bag inside and outside. A specific molle attachable sleeping bag waterproof sack would be great. I have a high tech bag that gets tiny, and a rectangular Coleman flannel one for warmer weather and is twice the size.... Go figure.

My only big complaint for many jackets if you do apparel is waterproof pockets for: registration and insurance, wallet, phone and a long pocket inside for a map. IMO, every pocket should be waterproof even if the jacket isn't.

sent from my portable multipurpose communicator
__________________
"you opened your mind so far, your brains fell out"
_________________________
Current: '13 Tiger 800 XC, '09 Subi WRX, '11 405hp Sti (wifey's) Past: '74 Honda CB 360, '81 Yamaha 650 Special II, '01 Bandit 1200S, '07 Bandit 1250S
btao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2013, 08:24 AM   #103
Sideoff OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Sideoff's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Hood River, OR
Oddometer: 446
This duffle proto is 24" long, 14" wide, and 8.5" tall. +/- 1/2" for bulge. The roll top ends make it look a little bigger.

I think we're ultimately going to need two sizes of duffles. We talked to a bunch of riders before starting and it's seems like everyone does things differently in terms of where they pack clothes versus tents/food etc. Some people put clothes in the rear duffle and camping supplies on the side, some do the opposite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaChayalBoded View Post
Personally I must have something at least 24" wide by 12" deep. Height can be anywhere from 12"-15"

Most of the backpacking type of sleeping bags and pads are roughly 12" long (at least the dozen or so different items I have).

It just helps make packing easier.

Of the 20 or more MC tailbags, duffels, saddlebgas, tankbags, e.t.c. I own. For long trips my rear seat duffel of choice has always been the Cabelas boundary waters duffel. 24x12x12 rectangular.

rectangular instead of round gives you roughly a 35% increase in volume compared to the same length and width\height of a round duffel. Plus it makes packing much much easier. Also, it's doesn't roll away on ya.
Sideoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2013, 08:30 AM   #104
Sideoff OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Sideoff's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Hood River, OR
Oddometer: 446
Based on the measurements and this online calculator:

http://mathcentral.uregina.ca/volume_calculator

I came up with 46 liters. It could expand to approx. 55 with the dual roll tops. I'm looking at it in front of me right now and I think it looks like a good size for an extended trip, but too big for just a weekend. I think we need a smaller one too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Dawg View Post
That duffel looks like a good 60 litres to me. I have a 40L Wolfman which is a handy size I find.
Sideoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2013, 08:33 AM   #105
Sideoff OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Sideoff's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Hood River, OR
Oddometer: 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoJack View Post
Done! Thank you
Sticker sent. If anyone else wants one just PM me your address. Talked to my buddy and he said he has a bunch, I'll get some more next week. So they may not get sent out until next week.
Sideoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 07:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014