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Old 11-24-2013, 04:41 AM   #46
Pantah
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I remember being so mad at American Honda and how they seemed to control the sport. I was glad when Ray Blank pulled the plug in the Honda factory team and subsequently retired. I liked the new rules he so fiercely resisted. I was full of hope. What a dope I was.

Looking back, the sport collapsed when Honda and the other factory haulers left the paddock. No Honda, no fans. Amazing to me a brand name would be so important. A brand and one world famous rider... Miggy.

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yeah, not long ago we would be looking forward to the December Daytona tire test, checking out the new ama grid.
Is there even a tire test anymore, yet alone an ama grid?? I'm glad for JB and all, but will Yamaha be racing against anyone? Lord I hope so, I hope the series bounces back from the oblivion it's in right now, and comes back to the world class series it used to be. In the 25+ years I've followed it, this is the scariest shape it's ever been in.
lotsa big talk about the british series, but shit, not long ago, the ama series was THE national series to be running, and all the others were a step behind. WTF????
haven't said it in a while, but fuck the ama and dmg. BASTARDS!!! they have killed the sport in this country. Please, somebody rescue it from these assholes!!!
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Old 11-24-2013, 05:26 AM   #47
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I remember being so mad at American Honda and how they seemed to control the sport. I was glad when Ray Blank pulled the plug in the Honda factory team and subsequently retired. I liked the new rules he so fiercely resisted. I was full of hope. What a dope I was.

Looking back, the sport collapsed when Honda and the other factory haulers left the paddock. No Honda, no fans. Amazing to me a brand name would be so important. A brand and one world famous rider... Miggy.
yeah, the downward spiral started when the rules changed and Honda pulled out. I've said it before, people want a show, they want the big transporters, they want famous riders, they want to feel part of something "big". It's a fact. There is close club racing all over this country, and they are usually attended by about a dozen fans each. HMMM, so when Edmonson decides to model ama pro roadracing after club racing, changing the rules and pushing out the manufacturers that brought the money, did anyone really think this was going to be a change in the right direction???? really, it was simply a matter of biting the hand that was feeding them. It also didn't help that the recession was beginning, but I don't believe that was the main cause of the failure, the series made it through hard times in the past, plenty of ways to cut back and still play the game. but this time, well, this might be for good. What I laugh at is the fact that the AMA seems content with the bang up job that dmg has been doing!! jebus man, in any other industry, they would have been fired years ago! We can only hope that someone with the money and the means comes along, sweeps up the debris, and builds a national series that the fans, riders, sponsors, etc, can be proud to be a part of, a series that once again will field world class riders to WSBK and MotoGP, a series that the world will actually take notice of, and will actually ATTRACT riders from other countries to race here. Im just glad I got to see it when it was at it's best, the late 80s- early 2000s was simply awesome to be a part of.
as for Miguel, I hated to see how his career ended. He did draw the fans, he was exciting to watch. sure, he was getting past his prime, but like a certain Italian in another series, he was a great character and no matter where he finished, people still enjoyed his presence in the sport. And then the sport shit on him.
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Old 11-24-2013, 06:02 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantah View Post
I remember being so mad at American Honda and how they seemed to control the sport. I was glad when Ray Blank pulled the plug in the Honda factory team and subsequently retired. I liked the new rules he so fiercely resisted. I was full of hope. What a dope I was.

Looking back, the sport collapsed when Honda and the other factory haulers left the paddock. No Honda, no fans. Amazing to me a brand name would be so important. A brand and one world famous rider... Miggy.
I felt the same way, and still think DMG could have salvaged it had they made a good effort.

NASCAR lost it's manufacturers in the late 1960's, which actually was a positive experience in the long run. Prior to that, the manufacturers had largely controlled the sport, and broken the rules at will with specialty cars, engines, etc. Whenever things didn't go their way, they'd threaten to pull out.......sounds familiar? Bill France finally took back control, and while it hurt for a few years, in the end he was able to crown himself dictator and determine the direction of the series.

What saved them then were two things: RJ Reynolds Tobacco money and promoting the drivers as "the show." It didn't hurt that they had larger than life drivers like Richard Petty, David Pearson, Cale Yarborough, Buddy Baker, and AJ, Mario and others coming over to compete in selected races.

Jim France is the son of big Bill, and I'm sure he has the ability to pull this off. If he does, the series will be in good shape in the long run. The issue is, I don't see a lot of effort being made to get things moving. Maybe there is behind the scenes, but it is not visible to any of us, nor the press. They need to get Red Bull, Monster, Jack Daniels, Bud, or some corporation with deep pockets to ink a long term deal. Then they need to play up the riders, have them make appearances, race fans on pocket bikes, whatever, to get them into the mainstream and make them human. It would help if they could attract WSBK or some MotoGP guys to a race or two. That all takes money, which comes from the sponsor.

I have no doubt that it takes a hell of a lot of work and money to pull it off, but that is a proven formula for success. The alternative is to limp it along until it can't. I'm pretty surprised that no one has started a competing series at this point, but maybe that is more indicative of the state of motorcycle racing in the
US.
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Old 11-24-2013, 08:27 AM   #49
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There were lots of problems with the pre-DMG AMA series, on the AMA side and with some of the manufacturers. But aside from sugar water makers, the only companies with any incentive to support motorcycle racing are the manufacturers and the aftermarket companies that cater to buyers of the manufacturers' products. Any business model that doesn't court their support is doomed. There are not enough motorcycle racing fans to entice the supposedly coveted outside-industry sponsors, so the NASCAR model won't work. It's not even working that well for NASCAR these days. The supposed road racing example--DMG's Grand Am--only survives because there are more rich guys willing to blow money on car racing then there are for motorcycle racing.

And all of the above doesn't take into account the cascade of idiocies that Roger Edmondson's reign inflicted on the series, knee-capping it just as the economy was imploding.

It's dead. It won't be revived until someone takes it from DMG and starts from scratch.
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Old 11-24-2013, 09:07 AM   #50
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I hear what you're saying Tim, but NASCAR in those days was a small, niche sport, much like motorcycle racing is today. They would get 10,000-20,000 for a regular race (Daytona was always bigger), and made it work with those numbers.

Many more people drive cars than ride bikes, but not every car driver is a race enthusiast. I'm not sure what the ratio of car drivers interested in racing is to bike riders interested in racing, but DMG probably has a good idea. Maybe economically it doesn't work, but in the 70's and 80's tobacco and beer companies sponsored a lot of bike racing. They had to see a return on investment there.

The series is looking especially grim, and I don't have a magic elixir for a cure. I just think a lot more work can be done by the sanctioning body to make it viable. Maybe it will still go down the terlit, but I'd rather see it go down for something other than lack of effort. The more I see of it the more it seems like a hobby of Jim France, and not being run like a stand alone business enterprise with a dedicated staff who are passionate about the state of the sport.

Roger Edmondson, enough said.
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Old 11-24-2013, 10:25 AM   #51
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I hear what you're saying Tim, but NASCAR in those days was a small, niche sport, much like motorcycle racing is today. They would get 10,000-20,000 for a regular race (Daytona was always bigger), and made it work with those numbers.

Many more people drive cars than ride bikes, but not every car driver is a race enthusiast. I'm not sure what the ratio of car drivers interested in racing is to bike riders interested in racing, but DMG probably has a good idea. Maybe economically it doesn't work, but in the 70's and 80's tobacco and beer companies sponsored a lot of bike racing. They had to see a return on investment there.
The research has been done. There are more registered bird watchers in the U.S. than motorcyclists, and the percentage of motorcyclists who are roadracing fans is small. Everybody drives a car, very few ride. I just don't see it ever being anything other than a small, niche sport, and the financial planning needs to recognize that and work with it, which means maximizing participation from those who have a stake in motorcycling, rather than marginalizing them in the (alleged) pursuit of Fortune 500's.

Tobacco and beer companies are yesterday's Red Bull and Monster, and are a special case. They have essentially no product budget and massive marketing needs, hence the huge spends on everything that moves. I'm not sure their ROI analysis is relevant to other companies.


Quote:
The series is looking especially grim, and I don't have a magic elixir for a cure. I just think a lot more work can be done by the sanctioning body to make it viable. Maybe it will still go down the terlit, but I'd rather see it go down for something other than lack of effort. The more I see of it the more it seems like a hobby of Jim France, and not being run like a stand alone business enterprise with a dedicated staff who are passionate about the state of the sport.
I'm pretty tired of hearing about Jim France, Motorcycle Fan. If it's a hobby, he needs to jump the fuck off, because it's a lot more than that to a lot of people. If it's a business, he better be grateful his pappy had some business sense . . .
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Old 11-24-2013, 05:05 PM   #52
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Great posts Harvey Mushman. Thanks!
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Old 11-25-2013, 05:44 AM   #53
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great posts harvey mushman. Thanks!
+1
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Old 11-27-2013, 08:41 AM   #54
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2 day format

Wonder if/how this format change will make things better??

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2013/Nov/131126mk.htm
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Old 11-27-2013, 08:48 AM   #55
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Who's running this thing? AMA or DMG?? WTF...!
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Old 11-27-2013, 09:51 AM   #56
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Wonder if/how this format change will make things better??

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2013/Nov/131126mk.htm
No friday practice (which is the unelaborated format change is) would theoretically lower costs somewhat for the teams/promoters.
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yooperbikemike screwed with this post 11-27-2013 at 09:57 AM
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Old 11-27-2013, 09:56 AM   #57
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No friday practice (which is the unelaborated format change is) would theoretically lower costs somewhat for the teams/promotors.
Editorial: Two-Day AMA Pro Road Race Events Will Save Money And Potentially Lead To Growth
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:24 PM   #58
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I think if Saturday amounted to two timed practice sessions of under 30 minutes with the grid set by fastest lap in any session, the small teams might save enough. They would only need four rears tires and 3 front tires for the whole weekend, instead of the 7 rears and 4 fronts I bought in 2011. Better yet, dump spec tires and let the tire companies compete for their share of the grid. My #1 son benefited from that formula a long time ago. He rode sticker tires pretty much every session. That's what it takes to find those tenths. Under the spec tire deal you buy every tire. True, they are US made Dunlop race tires and quite a bit cheaper than the British tires, but they are not as cheap as a contract allocation!

The hotel and related savings are material too. Even the smallest teams need a pit box manager and tuner and you pay for him by the race meet. Maybe the rest of the village could be volunteers, but you have to pay for their trip.

But to me the big thing is winning sponsors. There has to be some value to their investment. It seems like we are back to the dark ages in that way. Maybe it is time to just organize a meet and split the gate with the riders? Maybe it is time for a new series run by more grass roots people?
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:45 PM   #59
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Who's running this thing? AMA or DMG?? WTF...!
AMA sold many of its racing properties to the Daytona Motorsports Group in 2008. DMG retained the use of the AMA Pro Racing name, and that is about all the overlap they have.

The AMA is now concentrating on amateur racing, motorcyclist rights and motorcycle riding.

If you were just venting, please disregard.
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Old 11-27-2013, 03:09 PM   #60
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No, I was asking...thanks.
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