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Old 11-01-2013, 06:21 AM   #16
Montague
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I never had considered going to the DS but now that I have put on sidecar on my ST1300 I am seriously thinking about it.

Of course, the 3 wheel hack is a different beast than when it was a two wheel bike and the advantages of a car tire start to make sense in that application, especially when the extra wear the rear tire gets with the weight and dynamics involved.

I probably would not do it on a normal motorcycle.
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Old 11-01-2013, 07:53 AM   #17
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bike with side car = definitely a car tire, this only makes sense.
just mind the rim thing. riding the tire of the rim in a corner, and side cars can take a corner fast, would not be nice.
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Old 11-01-2013, 10:11 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtDuster View Post
You guys on the Darkside, do you run the tire at lower pressure (I don't know, something like 22-24 psi maybe?) to allow more flex when cornering?
I experimented with pressures from as high as 45 to as low as 20, and settled on 35-36, higher pressures is much more stable but requires more countersteer effort both to initiate and continue thru the turn, low pressure there is enuf flex ya can't tell the difference from a bike tire but subject to more wobble to almost tank slapper proportions in the wake of a large truck, in the end, 35-36 is my best compromise for a General Altimax Arctic 205/50-17 on my V-strom 1000

my initial venture to the darkside was intended to be a winter only experiment that was successful beyond my wildest expectation, a bike tire doesn't even come close when riding on snow & ice.

my intent was to remove the tire in spring, but my dealer that mounted the tire sez "hey Randy, were not swapping that tire back and forth twice a year for ya" while mounting it was easy, it had a very slow leak at the bead so they had to break it down to put some bead seal on and it was a bear to break down

without a spare rear wheel, I've ran that tire for the past 3 years (35,000+ miles) while is still has another 10k-15k of legal tread depth, imho its not enuf for winter use, so I will be replacing it before winter, And I just picked up a spare rear wheel with an almost new Battlewing on it for next spring

aside from winter, I can take it or leave it, yes, its nice that a $110 tire has save me $1500 in tire budget over the past 3 years. Rear braking power is almost equal to that of the front, the bike handles slightly "cruiserish" is the best way to describe it. Low parking lot speed and off road (real off road) sucks, you can feel it lift the rear in turns at speeds below 15mph and the wide footprint throws you off balance when a stone or uneven surface is near the edge of tire

mud and snow traction is unbelievable, as I said, I bike tire isn't even close, the car tire is 1000% better

new

35k

probably the more even wearing tire I've ever had
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randyo screwed with this post 11-01-2013 at 10:17 AM
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Old 11-01-2013, 10:14 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtDuster View Post
You guys on the Darkside, do you run the tire at lower pressure (I don't know, something like 22-24 psi maybe?) to allow more flex and over heating and delaminating when cornering?
Fixed.
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Old 11-01-2013, 10:18 AM   #20
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Just like a stopped clock. Dumbsiding isn't ALWAYS wrong.

This:
Quote:
Originally Posted by air-cooled View Post
bike with side car = definitely a car tire, this only makes sense.
This:
Quote:
Originally Posted by randyo View Post
mud and snow traction is unbelievable, as I said, A bike tire isn't even close, the car tire is 1000% better
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Old 11-01-2013, 10:23 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randyo View Post
I experimented with pressures from as high as 45 to as low as 20, and settled on 35-36, higher pressures is much more stable but requires more countersteer effort both to initiate and continue thru the turn, low pressure there is enuf flex ya can't tell the difference from a bike tire but subject to more wobble to almost tank slapper proportions in the wake of a large truck, in the end, 35-36 is my best compromise for a General Altimax Arctic 205/50-17 on my V-strom 1000

*SNIP*
I've found 33 PSI to be the sweet spot with the Potenza G 019 Grid on the FJR. You have to play around, but most darksiders wind up between 30-35.

And Randy, I think I recall reading your thread on your CT install on the Strom. That must have been a bitch squeezing that tire onto that rim
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Old 11-01-2013, 10:28 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
Fixed.
I'm in no way a darkside proponent so my question was only from pure curiosity.

That being said, I don't think that running a car tire 8 psi lower than the "standard" value on a 500-600lbs bike would cause overheating.
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Old 11-01-2013, 10:34 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtDuster View Post
You guys on the Darkside, do you run the tire at lower pressure (I don't know, something like 22-24 psi maybe?) to allow more flex and over heating and delaminating when cornering?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
Fixed.
I think not, the CT is weight rated at 1433 lbs load vs 716 lbs for the MC tire

when I ride 2up with cargo, I'm actually overloaded on the bike tire and barely 50% of the rated capacity with a CT
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Old 11-01-2013, 10:42 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinP View Post
I've found 33 PSI to be the sweet spot with the Potenza G 019 Grid on the FJR. You have to play around, but most darksiders wind up between 30-35.

And Randy, I think I recall reading your thread on your CT install on the Strom. That must have been a bitch squeezing that tire onto that rim
my dealer put it on for me, with tire machine, no problem getting it on, breaking the bead to get it off, I think will be another story

clears chain by about 3/32 of an inch, with worn loose chain in hard leaning right handers I've heard it rub, but never with new properly adjusted chain

I do look forward though now that I have a spare rear wheel to switch back to MC tire after winter, but for an Alaska trip that will be 17k or so for me, I will prolly run darkside
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Old 11-01-2013, 10:43 AM   #25
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Randyo, I ventured to the darkside purely as an experiment as well.




I had read about the darkside and every time the subject comes up, you get two very different sides. There's the people that have tried it and love it and then there's the people that condemn it as the worst possible thing in the world to do. They won't try it and insult anyone who has the gall to put a car tire on a motorcycle.

Personally, I thought it would handle like ass. I really thought it was a bad idea. But, then why are there so many people in favor of it? Out of all my research, I only ever found one person that tried it and decided it wasn't for him.

So, being of a scientific mind and experimental nature, I decided that when my MC tire wore out, I'd try it. I picked up a nail in the road about 3 months ago and decided it was time.

I mounted a car tire to my bike, and went out on a test ride with the intentions of creating my own opinion and of being the informed voice to tell all those darksiders how bad of an idea it was. I could test it myself and prove to them how much the handling was negatively affected. I was will to risk $70 on a tire for an informed opinion knowing full well that I would likely take it right back off and pony up the $200 for a "real" tire.

I failed. I couldn't prove the darksiders wrong. The handling was by and large unchanged. Really, there was no real difference that I could feel. I've been riding motorcycles for 30 years. I've had this one for the last 6 years and know it well. There really was nothing to get used to. The bike handles like a bike.

The only real differences were all good ones. Riding on gravel, for some reason, was drastically improved. I can't explain it, but it feels so much more secure. My bike used to feel sketchy on gravel roads, but now I'm perfectly comfortable at 60 mph and it's alot of fun powersliding around corners.


Traction on the rear tire is greatly increased - in all situations. I expected straight line acceleration and braking to be better - and it is. But, even hard acceleration out of the corners is better. I used to be able to break the back end loose and step it out a little. But, it stays planted now. Which is even more impressive considering that the tire is a little smaller in diameter, so the bike is geared lower. If the traction were the same, it'd be even easier to break the tire loose.

I really don't see any reason to go back to a motorcycle tire on the back of my cruiser. My lean angle is limited by hard parts way before it is limited by the tire - even with me hanging way off to the inside.



I know Dakez prides himself on coining the term "dumbsider". And if that's a point of pride for him, he can relish in it. Personally, I think it's about the laziest way to insult someone. Though, I feel the same way about those who think it's clever to use words like Redumblican or Obummer. I guess some people never get past 5th grade levels when it comes to insults.

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Old 11-01-2013, 10:51 AM   #26
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Looks like a good day to go fer a ride eh!


more than 6 or 7 inches of snow and the belly pan starts to hang up so have to shovel a path thru the snowplow windrow



it was snowing about 4-6" per hour
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Old 11-01-2013, 10:57 AM   #27
gravityisnotmyfriend
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I've never tried my big bike in snow. I've got my KTM for that sorta riding. I may have to try it out this winter now that I have the darkside rear on.

FWIW, I've found that 35 PSI feels best on my bike.
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Old 11-01-2013, 11:20 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinP View Post
Well, I'm guilty.



People don't realize is that with a car tire you always have more rubber on the road than a m/c tire.

Only when the M/C is vertical.
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Old 11-01-2013, 11:30 AM   #29
gravityisnotmyfriend
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Only when the M/C is vertical.
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Common misconception. Even when leaned, the car tire has more contact patch that a MC tire.
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Old 11-01-2013, 11:44 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gravityisnotmyfriend View Post

I know Dakez prides himself on coining the term "dumbsider". And if that's a point of pride for him, he can relish in it. Personally, I think it's about the laziest way to insult someone. Though, I feel the same way about those who think it's clever to use word like Redumblican or Obummer. I guess some people never get past 5th grade levels when it comes to insults.
I've found the people most outspoken against it have never tried it. I tried it on the Busa first, didn't like it so I took it off. I made an INFORMED decision it wasn't right for that bike (too damned heavy). I thought it would be better on the FJR, so I tried it again, and i was right, I loved it on the FJR. I made an INFORMED decision to keep it on that bike.
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