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Old 11-07-2013, 07:58 AM   #31
rocker59
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Originally Posted by deacon51 View Post
From what I hear, being a young urban biker in the US is being treated like a felony these days.

Yubbies suck.

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Old 11-08-2013, 10:55 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by concours View Post
I read this thread over at the Notrun board.. figured it could use some discussion/publicity in a BIGGER forum. This shit just sucks...

"Mate the world has gone mad, looks like I wont be able to enjoy a ride on my Norton with a few mates.

In an attempt to crack down on unlawful motorcycle gangs our state government (Queensland) are about to bring in new laws that will effectively brand all motorcycle riders as unlawful.

They intend to pull over law abiding riders and harass anyone that rides a motorcycle in a group of three or more.

Unless you do the following each and every time you go out for a ride.

"Motorcycle riders will now have to ring a police hotline number if they want to ride in groups of three or more in peace."

http://motorbikewriter.com/2013/10/31/m ... ikie-laws/"




http://www.accessnorton.com/new-laws...ad-t17745.html

Sounds like some seriously stupid people down there---and a police dept. that doesn't know how to deal with the gangs.

That call in system could be shut down very quickly simply by riders flooding it. Call in every ride no matter the number. Call in for rides and stay home. Repeat many times a day (gee, the bike would start and then it wouldn't...)call in for a ride one place and go else where. Call in in the middle of rides to make sure you're OK, etc. harassment cuts two ways.
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Old 11-10-2013, 12:29 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by concours View Post
I read this thread over at the Notrun board.. figured it could use some discussion/publicity in a BIGGER forum. This shit just sucks...

"Mate the world has gone mad, looks like I wont be able to enjoy a ride on my Norton with a few mates.

In an attempt to crack down on unlawful motorcycle gangs our state government (Queensland) are about to bring in new laws that will effectively brand all motorcycle riders as unlawful.

They intend to pull over law abiding riders and harass anyone that rides a motorcycle in a group of three or more.

Unless you do the following each and every time you go out for a ride.

"Motorcycle riders will now have to ring a police hotline number if they want to ride in groups of three or more in peace."

http://motorbikewriter.com/2013/10/31/m ... ikie-laws/"




http://www.accessnorton.com/new-laws...ad-t17745.html
People really need to read the legislation before carrying on with the 'sky is falling' hysteria.

https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/B...wAssDisB13.pdf

Forget the media whores that are flooding FB and blogs with their drivel ... read the Act and judge for yourselves whether it applies to non-OMG riders.
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Old 11-11-2013, 03:38 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Gonzoso View Post
Wow that's crazy, it must be rough having a tyrannical government that makes up such laws.

Who'd have thought a nation which completely disarmed its citizens would enact laws which further restrict their rights.

I'd think a nation which destroyed all its peoples firearms would now have a violence free existence, therefore needing no new laws.

Does this mean that taking all the legally owned firearms from the citizens doesn't stop all violent crime?
Haha, less than a page! Congrats.

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Old 11-13-2013, 02:20 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by dbuzz View Post
People really need to read the legislation before carrying on with the 'sky is falling' hysteria.

https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/Bills/54PDF/2013/VicLawAssDisB13.pdf

Forget the media whores that are flooding FB and blogs with their drivel ... read the Act and judge for yourselves whether it applies to non-OMG riders.
Holy crap, the sentence is 15 years no parole minimum, 25 years no parole if you are an "officer" of the "association" (defined as a coroporation, club, or "any other group of 3 or more persons by whatever name
called, whether associated formally or informally and whether the group is legal or illegal."

BTW an "office bearer" that would ge the extra 10 years is "a person who (whether by words or conduct, or in any other way) asserts, declares or advertises himself or herself to hold a position of authority of any kind within the association."

What makes you liable under the act? Simple - commission of a "declared offense". A list of those is included in the statute, mostly they are what we would call felonies, HOWEVER "dangerous operation of a vehicle" is also included. Don't know what "dangerous operation" means - maybe speeding XX over?

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Old 11-14-2013, 12:06 PM   #36
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I looked at the law some more - this really is a prosecutor's wet dream. If you commit a "declared offence" and there are two other people somehow involved you get the 15 or 25 year term. Furthermore, the list of "declared offences" can be expanded without limit by regulation, so over time more and more crimes will be included.
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Old 11-16-2013, 05:28 PM   #37
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Where I live, for decades, the Hells angles have been and still are, at the top of the food chain, when it comes to organised crime.
They are closely competing with other MC-gangs, that are at least just as dangerous.
I know that this is the case in other Euro countries as well.

Because these MC gangs are isolated groups, with strict rules about atmitance and loyalty and have a very organised structure, it is imposible for the police to get a grip on them.
Cities have tried to outlaw specific groups, but although the whole country knows the real story, there is just no legal evidence that they are a criminal organisation.
Individual members are often arrested, but there is not evidence that the club is behind it.

Last year several normal motorcycle events where cancelled, because there was a war going on between MC gangs and the risk of a confrontation was simply to high.
In the media, people keep their mouth closed, because there have been 2 primetime talkshow hosts who where beaten to a pulp, after critisizing the Hels Angles.
At the start of the next evenings broadcast, their face covered in bruises, they apoligised for what they had said about the HA. (no charges where ever made, case closed)
To be perfectly honest I'm not 100% sure that me posting this is smart.

Maybe it is just me, but I am not really happy with knowing that these incredibly dangerous criminal groups are running free in our society and are apparently unstoppable.
Especially if people on the road think I might be one of them.

Lets keep in mind who the people are, that are causing the need for these unfair regulations.
These are not rebels, (at least where I live) these are the most dangerous people you can run in to. (I hope I never do)

Maybe some of us secretly kind of like the idee that normal people think any MC rider might be a super dangerous criminal.
Maybe some of us enjoy looking a bit thougher than we really are.
In that case, this is simply the backlash.

I would expect a bit more anger and frustration towards these groups and a bit more understanding towards the people that are trying to stop them from fucking things up for the rest of us.

I'm sure that if you ride with a group of ADV buddies, no normal thinking Australian police officer is ever going to bother you.
And if they do, surely no court is ever going to jurge you.
With the people that drive around like they own the place, these same officers and courts will now be able to let them know that this is not the case.
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Old 11-16-2013, 07:30 PM   #38
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New Zealand has an Unlawful Assembly law http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/p...DLM328558.html

It became prominent in the early '70's when they tried to clamp down on motorcycle gangs - you couldn't ride in more than a group of 3. Maybe a few cops tried to enforce it, but none would attempt to pull over 30 bikes at a time by themselves. It was known about, but a fizzer in real life.
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Old 11-16-2013, 07:48 PM   #39
Plaka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin_404 View Post
Where I live, for decades, the Hells angles have been and still are, at the top of the food chain, when it comes to organised crime.
They are closely competing with other MC-gangs, that are at least just as dangerous.
I know that this is the case in other Euro countries as well.

Because these MC gangs are isolated groups, with strict rules about atmitance and loyalty and have a very organised structure, it is imposible for the police to get a grip on them.
Cities have tried to outlaw specific groups, but although the whole country knows the real story, there is just no legal evidence that they are a criminal organisation.
Individual members are often arrested, but there is not evidence that the club is behind it.

Last year several normal motorcycle events where cancelled, because there was a war going on between MC gangs and the risk of a confrontation was simply to high.
In the media, people keep their mouth closed, because there have been 2 primetime talkshow hosts who where beaten to a pulp, after critisizing the Hels Angles.
At the start of the next evenings broadcast, their face covered in bruises, they apoligised for what they had said about the HA. (no charges where ever made, case closed)
To be perfectly honest I'm not 100% sure that me posting this is smart.

Maybe it is just me, but I am not really happy with knowing that these incredibly dangerous criminal groups are running free in our society and are apparently unstoppable.
Especially if people on the road think I might be one of them.

Lets keep in mind who the people are, that are causing the need for these unfair regulations.
These are not rebels, (at least where I live) these are the most dangerous people you can run in to. (I hope I never do)

Maybe some of us secretly kind of like the idee that normal people think any MC rider might be a super dangerous criminal.
Maybe some of us enjoy looking a bit thougher than we really are.
In that case, this is simply the backlash.

I would expect a bit more anger and frustration towards these groups and a bit more understanding towards the people that are trying to stop them from fucking things up for the rest of us.

I'm sure that if you ride with a group of ADV buddies, no normal thinking Australian police officer is ever going to bother you.
And if they do, surely no court is ever going to jurge you.
With the people that drive around like they own the place, these same officers and courts will now be able to let them know that this is not the case.
Don't worry man, it's spelled "Angels". You talkin' about somebody else...

Seems Those Aussie legislators are trying something like the American RICO act. The Angels are actually at the bottom of the feeding chain when it comes to organized crime. But they are organized crime nevertheless. The Mafia is at the top--these days vying with various drug cartels, etc. The RICO act along with dedicated task forces was very effective in dismembering the Mafia. Read up on some of that history.

RICO is also being used against the Angels, with good effect. Two quick links:

http://www.fbi.gov/columbia/press-re...ico-indictment

http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2013/03/032013-char-hells-angels-members-convicted-of-racketeering-conspiracy-for-their-dealings-with-drugs-guns-armed-robbery-and-money-laundering.html



If you read over how the investigations were conducted, it wasn't necessary to infiltrate. They set them up from the outside, used surveillance, etc. It works.

The screening the Angels give a potential member is nothing like what the government does to issue security clearances. But governments are successfully planting moles in each others organizations all the time. It takes a decade or more. Two slow. Working from the outside the investigation I cited took two years. Not bad.


I mentioned that various enforcement moves could be defeated by flooding. These guys aren't dumb (totally). They know it. They also don't want to stuff prisons with people doing long time on bullshit charges. it costs money to put people in prison and maintain them. A lot of money. The object is to take out the gangs. So you get selective about your enforcement.

Best move? Lots of high viz gear. It'll get you de-profiled in an instant.
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Old 11-16-2013, 07:59 PM   #40
k-moe
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Originally Posted by Plaka View Post
The Angels are actually at the bottom of the feeding chain when it comes to organized crime. But they are organized crime nevertheless. Congress is at the top-
Fixed it.
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Old 11-17-2013, 01:17 AM   #41
Martin_404
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"where I live" is not the USA
Maybe that explains why I misspelled "Angels" :)
I'm pretty sure I'm right about their ranking in my country.
In the US the Angels might be concidered a bad joke, but I can asure you that MC gangs in Europe are serious bussines.
Our law enforcement here is not completely incompedent, but it remains very difficult to proof that these gangs do not hang-out together, just because they like riding bikes, but are in fact only concerned with things like abductions, extortion, human traficing and high level drug dealing. (in short: spreading misery)

I understand that in Australia this ranking wil be different, but I'm sure that people do not go through the huge difficulty of making a new law, just because some guys in leather jackets stole a handfull of candy at a gas station.

Criminal MC gangs in general are hiding their activities behind the cover of being a group of friends that simply like to ride MC's
(just like other criminals groups pretent they just like playing golf, but at least they do not terrorise the streets with large groups of golf cars)
What I'm saying is that we, as a comunity, should be more outraged at them, instead of downplaying the problem.

(I wear High-viz on my daily comute, and I agree that it is more difficult to convince people that they still really should not fuck with me.)

Martin_404 screwed with this post 11-17-2013 at 03:16 AM
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Old 11-17-2013, 06:39 PM   #42
Mat
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Yeah, in Scandinavia they are not just a bunch of pirates, but pirates with explosives:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Nordic_Biker_War

Hereabouts they are happy with just shooting an Outlaw's bike

Just shows that there seem to be large local differences amongst them.
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Old 11-17-2013, 07:25 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat View Post
Yeah, in Scandinavia they are not just a bunch of pirates, but pirates with explosives:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Nordic_Biker_War

Hereabouts they are happy with just shooting an Outlaw's bike

Just shows that there seem to be large local differences amongst them.

That was almost 20 years ago.
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Old 11-17-2013, 07:32 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concours View Post
I read this thread over at the Notrun board.. figured it could use some discussion/publicity in a BIGGER forum. This shit just sucks...

"Mate the world has gone mad, looks like I wont be able to enjoy a ride on my Norton with a few mates.

In an attempt to crack down on unlawful motorcycle gangs our state government (Queensland) are about to bring in new laws that will effectively brand all motorcycle riders as unlawful.

They intend to pull over law abiding riders and harass anyone that rides a motorcycle in a group of three or more.

Unless you do the following each and every time you go out for a ride.

"Motorcycle riders will now have to ring a police hotline number if they want to ride in groups of three or more in peace."

http://motorbikewriter.com/2013/10/31/m ... ikie-laws/"




http://www.accessnorton.com/new-laws...ad-t17745.html
OR... the law could simply target gangs and motorcyclists breaking the law. That is the dumbest shit I've heard in a long time.
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Old 11-18-2013, 06:21 AM   #45
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Yeah and.... that's not what it says. Stringently enforced, it could be a true pain in the butt for three or four people out riding to have fun.

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