ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-12-2013, 08:50 AM   #16
SloMo228
World Class Cheapass
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Location: SE Michigan
Oddometer: 1,624
Meh. The specs are almost as good as my '96 DR350, the only thing it has over that (nearly 20 year old) bike is a fairing that is apparently made out of crap plastic and a rear rack. The DR makes the same power, weighs less, and has a 6-speed transmission. How much are these things supposed to cost? You can get any number of 15+ year old dual sports that are better on paper and likely have better build quality.
__________________
--------------------------- Steve----------------------------------------
'93 GL1500 frankenbike basketcase in progress
'96 DR350SE
SloMo228 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 10:24 AM   #17
Carter Pewterschmidt
Beastly Adventurer
 
Carter Pewterschmidt's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2010
Location: Milwaukee
Oddometer: 1,028
All those Chinese products are more or less throw away. You can probably get a decent 5 to 6 years out of it, but it's garbage after that. They use cheap metals and poor castings, threads come out, stuff falls off, can't get parts.

The Chinese may match build quality with most of the market eventually, but it's going to be a while yet.
Carter Pewterschmidt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 12:16 PM   #18
rickypanecatyl
SE Asia adventure tours
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Oddometer: 1,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by RideFreak View Post
From their webpage;
"The following power test session unveils the true verification because we have very strict standards. Riders responsible for the test are two experienced former off-road athletes, who are experts of motorcycle travel after retirement and masters of motorcycles at the same time."

That makes all the difference, I was a little worried
That's awesome!!
rickypanecatyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 12:19 PM   #19
rickypanecatyl
SE Asia adventure tours
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Oddometer: 1,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by morerpmfred View Post
There is one here for sale on kijiji locally. A 2010 model. Out of my price range.
We should like take up a collection or somethin...
rickypanecatyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 12:22 PM   #20
steveWFL
Beastly Adventurer
 
steveWFL's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Tampa
Oddometer: 1,343
the Chinese will enter the market for real one day, and competition is a good thing
__________________
KTM EXC - in 530 flavor
'10 Concours14 with >85,000 miles and ticking'
'99 ZX9R Ninja - rolling retro style
'99 ZX9R - because I like the other one so much
'08 ZZR600 minty
steveWFL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 03:53 PM   #21
TNC
Candyass Camper
 
TNC's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Tejas
Oddometer: 4,588
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveWFL View Post
the Chinese will enter the market for real one day, and competition is a good thing
I recall the opinion about Japanese motorcycles and products being similar to what we're hearing here back in the day.
TNC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 04:08 PM   #22
shearboy2004
KIWIINUSA
 
shearboy2004's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Ft Collins ,Colorado
Oddometer: 4,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNC View Post
I recall the opinion about Japanese motorcycles and products being similar to what we're hearing here back in the day.
Exactly !
__________________
88 R100GS
75 Norton Commando Roadster
98 DR450
07 Sherco 450 called BLING.
07 Sherco 510 called Holy Shit .
shearboy2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 04:41 PM   #23
RideFreak
Green Chile Eater
 
RideFreak's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: County Lockup, NM
Oddometer: 5,590
No doubt they will get better but there's a fundamental difference in the current Chinese and the 1960s Japanese product development cycles.

The Japanese were guilty of copying designs and improving them, esp early on. They constantly strived for product excellence and quickly came up with designs that were advanced for the time and a source of pride for their engineers. They jumped right into racing and suffered many a defeat as they improved their products. In a span of 10 years they caught most of the existing manufacturers and were winning races in most MC disciplines. By that time designs were original and better than most other stuff out there.

The Chineese on the other hand have had more then ten years, barely enter any competition events if at all. They still utilize designs and castings purchased from the Japanese that have not been improved upon, I see new models coming out of china but most if not all use a poorly copied jap design. I don't see a product improvement, they still fail from poor castings, cheap parts and cost cutting. They have the technology and capability right now to significantly improve the bikes they sell but I don't see it happening. If they were serious they'd focus on quality rather then catchy designs that masks over the same cheap ($) product philosophy.
RideFreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 04:57 PM   #24
DPelletier
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2013
Oddometer: 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNC View Post
I recall the opinion about Japanese motorcycles and products being similar to what we're hearing here back in the day.
You must be pretty old; Japanese bikes have been top quality since the late '60's, early '70's. My first bike was a 1975 Honda Z50 and that bike was bulletproof....and they are still making it today as the CRF50.

Maybe one day the Chinese will catch up, but an analogy comparing current Chinese MC offerings to early Japanese bikes is fundamentally flawed.

I'd rather ride a 30 year old Honda/Kawi/Suzuki/Yamaha over ANY current Chinese bike. The difference in quality is palpable; like handcrafted hardwood furniture vs. particle board crap with simulated woodgrain tape like you get from a box store.

2 pennies,
Dave
DPelletier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 05:08 PM   #25
eakins
Butler Maps
 
eakins's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2002
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Oddometer: 17,660
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNC View Post
I recall the opinion about Japanese motorcycles and products being similar to what we're hearing here back in the day.
the difference is the Japanese changed their quality very quickly and stepped up to air-craft grade tolerance. they had a desire to create a better product year after year and studied how to accomplish that goal. the Chinese just want to knock of other designs and want to produce it as cheap as possible year after year. very different mfg mindset & the Chinese don't seem to give a damn about change for the better. only when foreign owned companies approach the Chinese to built at a certain quality do they. left on their own it's shit year after year. it's the Korean motorcycle mfg that everyone is watching. they have that same Japanese mentality. same thing happened in the car industry.
__________________
Butler Maps - motorcycle maps for riders by riders -
Alaska
AZ map COBDR AZBDR IDBDR South East map
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=598717
Butler Maps website:
http://www.butlermaps.com
eakins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 05:09 PM   #26
TNC
Candyass Camper
 
TNC's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Tejas
Oddometer: 4,588
Quote:
Originally Posted by RideFreak View Post
No doubt they will get better but there's a fundamental difference in the current Chinese and the 1960s Japanese product development cycles.

The Japanese were guilty of copying designs and improving them, esp early on. They constantly strived for product excellence and quickly came up with designs that were advanced for the time and a source of pride for their engineers. They jumped right into racing and suffered many a defeat as they improved their products. In a span of 10 years they caught most of the existing manufacturers and were winning races in most MC disciplines. By that time designs were original and better than most other stuff out there.

The Chineese on the other hand have had more then ten years, barely enter any competition events if at all. They still utilize designs and castings purchased from the Japanese that have not been improved upon, I see new models coming out of china but most if not all use a poorly copied jap design. I don't see a product improvement, they still fail from poor castings, cheap parts and cost cutting. They have the technology and capability right now to significantly improve the bikes they sell but I don't see it happening. If they were serious they'd focus on quality rather then catchy designs that masks over the same cheap ($) product philosophy.
Chris, I would agree with some of those aspects you mention about the difference. Japan was/is unlike most other oriental countries. Even those products in a depressed, post-WWII Japan were created and manufactured by a citizenry that had proven itself capable of some mighty fine machinery. And the Japanese were notorious for their pride in their work. Still, having sampled a good bit of Chinese product ranging from Harbor Freight to bicycle shops, I think it's clear that they're moving forward.
TNC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 05:41 PM   #27
Barterer
Adventurer
 
Barterer's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2010
Oddometer: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPelletier View Post
You must be pretty old; Japanese bikes have been top quality since the late '60's, early '70's. My first bike was a 1975 Honda Z50 and that bike was bulletproof....and they are still making it today as the CRF50.

Maybe one day the Chinese will catch up, but an analogy comparing current Chinese MC offerings to early Japanese bikes is fundamentally flawed.

I'd rather ride a 30 year old Honda/Kawi/Suzuki/Yamaha over ANY current Chinese bike. The difference in quality is palpable; like handcrafted hardwood furniture vs. particle board crap with simulated woodgrain tape like you get from a box store.

2 pennies,
Dave
You are right that Honda was ahead of the game, but I would not give the Japanese at large full credit for it. About that era, I had a Yamaha GT80 that was a total leaking/breaking POS compared to my friend's Z50. I was jealous watching him putt around while I was trying to fix a broke-off stud in the transmission. The 1978 GT80 was better than some of the junk out of China today for sure. But it did take a while for Yamaha to catch up. A slightly later Yamaha I had ('82 Maxim 400) was totally up to par. The trouble with the old Yamaha was not enough to put me off of them, fortunately.
__________________
Mysticism is a disease of the mind.

Barterer screwed with this post 11-12-2013 at 06:00 PM
Barterer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 06:11 PM   #28
STROMVADER
Beastly Adventurer
 
STROMVADER's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: Northern Illinois
Oddometer: 2,100
Look how far Kymco has come. They have made engines for BMW (450x 650x) in the past and are the official ATV/scooter of NHRA. Build quality has gotten a lot better. I had a bad experience with a Coolster pitbike. It was the biggest POS and broke every time I rode it. The chinese are only about profit and not quality at this point.
__________________
You only LIVE once. Make it COUNT.
F*CK CANCER
Godspeed Dad! RIP 1944-2010
STROMVADER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 06:20 PM   #29
bmwktmbill
Traveler
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Traveler
Oddometer: 4,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by STROMVADER View Post
Look how far Kymco has come. They have made engines for BMW (450x 650x) in the past and are the official ATV/scooter of NHRA. Build quality has gotten a lot better. I had a bad experience with a Coolster pitbike. It was the biggest POS and broke every time I rode it. The chinese are only about profit and not quality at this point.
Well really?

Their stuff is made for the second and third world where is has already won the battle.

All the cops in C. America are on Chinese mc's like that one.

When they break they get fixed,
Period.

Usually you see two cops on one bike with rifles, radios, ammo etc.

b
__________________
'02 KTM 640 Adventure-lowered
"On the road there are no special cases."
Cormack McCarthy-The Crossing

The faster it goes the faster it breaks.
And high performance=high maintenance.
Bill Shockley
bmwktmbill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 06:22 PM   #30
59DEN
Studly Adventurer
 
59DEN's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Albany, Western Australia
Oddometer: 759
CFMOTO have a very good reputation for quality at a good price, all they have to do is manufacture a mid capacity ADV bike.
59DEN is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 03:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014