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Old 11-26-2013, 01:49 PM   #16
driller OP
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I lose track of things...

Oh, I lost count somewhere...sometimes I get confused.

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2005 Vespa GT200
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2006 Fly 150 "BlowFly 200"
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Old 11-26-2013, 05:18 PM   #17
Yellow Jacket
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Here's a shot of the exhaust on the bike. Whether or not it helps performance remains to be see. I like the looks of it, that anodized, CNC'ed alumimun bracket looks neat. That pigtail in the exhaust pipe may actually be of some good. It's been my experiance on bikes that cannot be held in one gear, like a CVT, a long headpipe helps low end power.
High of about 42* and steady rain all day so still no testing. Tomorrow will be worse and Thu. is tied up with turkey day. Fri. will be cold but dry so might get in some testing then.


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Old 11-26-2013, 06:04 PM   #18
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Another one...

Here is another project like this one...
http://modernvespa.com/forum/post1740736#1740736
I do like that pipe!
How about some sound?
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...type=2&theater
His results are right in line with where we want to go with our tinkering.
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Why did I wait so long to do this?
Now "Certified Scooter Trash"
2005 Vespa GT200
2011 PCX 125
2006 Fly 150 "BlowFly 200"

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Old 11-27-2013, 04:51 PM   #19
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Hi Driller,

It's me DucatiSS (ADV sign in rules said no bike brands). Thanks for the link. You and Yellow Jacket are doing great work. I was going to do the install myself, but the wife wanted her Fly back today so we could bring it with us to Pensacola. She has known me for thirty years and was justifiably concerned that it wouldn't be ready if I was doing the work. The guys at the shop had a blast with the scoot. They said no one ever does much to these and were very impressed. They also noted that the 2006 Marino Blue scooters were the last Piaggios made in Italy and they like the build quality better than the Chinese ones from 2007-2012. This looks like a great site, thanks again. I didn't get a hold of the mechanic that did the jetting, but I know it is richer. I let you know when we get the exact numbers.
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Old 11-29-2013, 08:06 AM   #20
Yellow Jacket
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Should get up to 51* here today, good enough for me to get out on the Fly and test the new exhaust. Stay tuned.
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Old 11-29-2013, 06:44 PM   #21
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Hey, I've got some numbers!!.
With the pipe installed and no other changes, the times at my top secret test facility dropped to 9.975 sec. an improvement of just over .25 sec. Two way top speed by GPS and a windless day was 58 MPH, again an improvement of 2.5 MPH.
It occurred to me that say you were going to be in a big money drag race and needed all the edge possible, would it help to drop rear tire air pressure way down, effectively lowering gearing slightly? Sorry to say, that didn't work. With 10# in the tire, I actually lost a little ET. Lower tire pressure also means more rolling resistance. In this case, resistance won out.
The exhaust did result in some weight loss. I forgot to weigh it before installing but will do that when Driller and I install the big bore kit. The difference is probably no more that 5 pounds.
Weather permitting, my next step is to install all 9.5 gram rollers and do the testing.
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Old 11-29-2013, 07:07 PM   #22
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Progress

Thanks, Vic!
Malossi Multivar +PM pipe= .53 sec net improvement. Looks like we are on track.
For comparison, that is faster than my stock GT200 as it is presently running.
__________________
Why did I wait so long to do this?
Now "Certified Scooter Trash"
2005 Vespa GT200
2011 PCX 125
2006 Fly 150 "BlowFly 200"

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Old 11-29-2013, 10:27 PM   #23
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This is 0-100kph times only. Due to the speedo error (measured and checked against police roadside radar boards) of 3 or 4%, it would give a 0-60mph time fairly accurately, and I measured it all numerous times to get a reasonable average.

Just for an example only of what it's possible if you are stoooopid enough to really screw with the CVT set-up!

Piaggio X8 250ie stock...........13.8secs.
Variator, rollers, drive sheave mods for ramp angles, clearanced case slightly (only 2mm total) fr more ratio on belt, all the usual clutch springs, torsion springs, etc............9.7secs.



Oh, until 4 days ago when it exploded and sent billet alloy pieces bloody everywhere! HAHA!



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Old 11-30-2013, 08:49 AM   #24
Yellow Jacket
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WHAT!!! That doesn't look good. What exactly let go, I can't tell in the picture and do you know why that happened?
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Old 11-30-2013, 02:23 PM   #25
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Yikes!

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Old 11-30-2013, 03:02 PM   #26
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The variator let go at full pelt, I'm amazed it didn't take out the cases too, quite astounding really.

My own fault for overloading the thing way past where I should have, oops!

I haven't broken something that well for years.
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Old 11-30-2013, 04:06 PM   #27
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Okay, makes sense to me now, I see the rollers there on the floor. You did say you installed an after market variator among other things. So the variator just wasn't up to the task? I'm pretty much a greenhorn when it comes to CVT's and would like to gain as much info as I can, especially if I can do it at someone else's expense.

BTW ModnRod, I took a look at your monster dragtimes. That is a killer 60' time for a short wheelbase sportbike. I raced a 600 Ninja for 3 years that was stock but lowered to just over 2" under the belly pan. Can't remember what my best 60' was but I think you have me beat. I did run a best of 10.71 @ just shy of 130MPH.

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Old 11-30-2013, 06:32 PM   #28
MODNROD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Jacket View Post
. So the variator just wasn't up to the task? I'm pretty much a greenhorn when it comes to CVT's and would like to gain as much info as I can, especially if I can do it at someone else's expense.

The variator was fine, it was due mainly to the twit modifying things he didn't understand! HAHA! Part of the fun though.

Just VERY VERY generally for variators though.........

Malossi work great, excellent accel, but you may (may, perhaps, possibly) lose a bit of top speed, and they can sometimes be hard on rollers..
Polini work great, and I have heard back from a Vespa GTS owner of having done 23000km on them, so also last like OEM it seems.
J Costa is buttery smooth, and overall for everything is excellent, but they're expensive and need more regular maintenance (cleaning around weights) more than the others.
Dr Pulley sliders in an OEM variator have 85%-90% of the performance of the above, but last almost forever (twice as long as std rollers), are cheap as chips, and no maintenance.

I wish someone could have told me that when I started playing with these things a couple of years ago, but I doubt it would have stopped me blowing something up!

Oh yeah, and to get the little things to JUMP, start looking at clutch springs........think launch revs to sorta cross-over from bikes.



Re the 60ft time......
That little Monster was an evil little bitch of a thing to get out of the hole, it must have taken me nearly a whole season to get that happening with any regularity. That was my best, but eventually I could get 1.75/1.76 regularly. I'd climbed off an old Zed 810 inline with a 4" arm and a skinny 140 rear, so for 10 years or more I'd been dialling up 5000 and clutch-dumping run after run. Now all of a sudden I had 81ft/lb@7000 (Dyno rwhp) from a tweaked 996 twin, a big sticky 180 and a short arm to deal with!
Bloody good fun though!

Anyway, get that scooter happening! None of this "but it's cold" crap! HAHA!
Have fun man.
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Old 12-01-2013, 12:12 PM   #29
Yellow Jacket
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I just don't know about you guys that drag race Ducati's. In nearly 50 years of 2 wheeled drag racing I think I could count on two hands all the Ducati's I've see on the strip.
As for the Fly, next step is to put all 9.5 gr. rollers in and see how that does. Looks like we may have some weather this week that will be to my likeing. Stay tuned.
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Old 12-02-2013, 04:10 PM   #30
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Numbers are in!! No changes other than all 6 roller are now 9.5 gr. instead of the 3 9.5 gr. and 3 14 gr. rollers. Guess what, no change. Weather was perfect for testing, no wind and about 55*. Both the acceleration and top speed tests were so close to the last set of tests that I would say the results are within the margin of error for my highly scientific stop watch method. Bike did seem to rev a bit higher at light load cruising speeds. It would seem that there is a point where lighter rollers cease to have much effect on off line acceleration. The combination of 9.5 and 14 gr. rollers that Malossi recommends in their instructions is a very good setup.
Driller, I did take the front wheel off, broke the bead on one side, sprayed it with tire mounting goop and reinflated. Bead pop out at very low pressure, less than 15 pounds. Inflated to 34#. Seems to have a little less runout and does not blur my vision at 50 per quite as much as it did before.
Next step will be the big bore top end. Think I will go back to the 9.5-14 gr. roller combo too.
As for the cold weather, well, I do have to do the testing without gloves to work the buttons on the stop watch.
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