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Old 01-15-2014, 04:20 PM   #76
driller OP
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Progress..

Vic and I got out to the measured course to test the latest jetting on the BlowFly yesterday. Yet again, the acceleration times dropped but the original top speed is eluding us! Gradually working up in size on the main jet (started at 72/stock is 82) yields quicker acceleration. Max speed averaged only 55 and we are stumped as to why the loss. After I left for home, he reamed the jet out some more and the top speed did improve to 57mph.
Perhaps things are still too lean.
The roller weights we are running are 10.5 gms more than stock of 60gms. I was sure the increase in power would compensate for the higher roller weight.
Plans are to mark the variator faces to see how high the belt is riding.

Vic will post the latest numbers soon. An interesting note is the BlowFly is now running the course only about .25 sec slower than my GT200. So, as far as acceleration goes we are getting closer to the original goals.
A slight error in installing the diaphragm in the carb on the GT was recently found and was slowing the bike down. Now after being corrected, the Vespa has never ran better.
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Old 01-16-2014, 08:00 AM   #77
VanDiemenF2
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Excellent news, Mike.
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Old 01-16-2014, 03:41 PM   #78
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Has anyone here noticed that when I post test numbers it takes me a lot longer to get them up when the numbers are just so-so than when I can show good progress?
With that in mind, here are some more so-so numbers.
With that #72 jet reamed out, the time was 9.72 and 56 MPH top speed. Best time yet! Not much of a change since the 9.79 and 57.5 MPH with the #72 jet. This #72 jet does not have a tapered hole thru it so quite likely I didn't increase fuel flow much if at all. All I did was make the straight hole into a tapered one with the original size hole at the small end.
I did open the jet again to what would be about a 75 and retested. It was late so I didn't do the acceleration test, just a top end run which was up slightly to 57.5. The wind was calm on this run where it was a bit breezy on the previous run.
I'm now ready to try again when weather permits with the jet at about a #77. BTW, I'm getting pretty good at this jet cahnge thing. Got it done in 22 minutes this last time.
Now, if any one is still reading this, here are some really good #'s from Drillers GT200. Months ago when he first left the bike with me to fix a rough idle I tested it at 9.74 sec. Bad idle was caused by an intake air leak between the head and the manifold. During the fix, I unknowingly failed to get the carb diaphragm seated correctly. Tested at only 10.29 sec. I've scratched my head over this ever since. Driller has ridden the bike like this for over a thousand miles. We finally got the diaphragm problem fixed. On retesting we got down to 9.29 sec., over 1/2 sec better than when he bought the bike. Now the bike is a joy to ride. I love it when a plan comes together.
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Old 01-16-2014, 09:09 PM   #79
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Since I've tested the bike with and without the Evap system and found no change we've decided to remove it just to clean up the bike a little.
Here's a couple shots for before:




And after.




This is what came off. Foot is there only for size comparison.
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Old 01-16-2014, 09:23 PM   #80
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Sorry folks, I still haven't figured out how to reduce the size of my pictures. Tried but all I got was a white border on two sides.

I'm begining to wonder if maybe the small size of the intake is the reason we just can't seem to get past the 56-57 MPH barrier. Ok, I may have fat fingers but look at this, I can't even get my pinky finger into the intake. It actually measures about 7/10 th's of an inch. Much smaller than the carb throat. When I'm done with this stage of jetting, I'll see what happens without the intake tube. The incoming air has to make a 45* bend, then a 180* bend before doing a couple more turns just to get to the air filter. Sure looks choked to me.



Here's the little reamer I've been talking about that I use to take just a very tiny bit out of the jet at a time.
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Old 01-16-2014, 11:14 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Yellow Jacket View Post
The incoming air has to make a 45* bend, then a 180* bend before doing a couple more turns just to get to the air filter. Sure looks choked to me.

My X8 250ie has an air intake to the airbox that looks just like that, same size too I rekn.
I did notice a slight improvement in performance when I drilled a couple of 10mm holes in the airbox to help, but not all that much really, mainly just noise.
That sits on 120kph+ all day with that little tiny air tube.
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Old 01-17-2014, 09:00 AM   #82
Yellow Jacket
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Modnrod, that is something Driller and I talked about. If I can find some black plastic plugs for the holes I may still do that. I want to be able to go back to stock if it doesn't work or is too much noise.
Also, I've used a magic marker to put marks on the variator where the belt rides to make sure the belt goes all the way to the top. After my next top end run I'll check that.
BTW, how long does it take for you to get from west Oz to east Oz with the throttle pinned on that X8?

Yellow Jacket screwed with this post 01-17-2014 at 09:18 AM
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Old 01-17-2014, 07:44 PM   #83
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Took the BlowFly out today but too windy for any meaningful testing. Just ran it WFO a bit so I could check my marks on the variator. Here's a pix, doesn't look to me like the belt is going as high as it should, ie, not going all the way into the highest ratio. Anyone know anything about these things? Still new enough for me that I don't know how high the belt should go.

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Old 01-18-2014, 02:52 PM   #84
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BTW, how long does it take for you to get from west Oz to east Oz with the throttle pinned on that X8?
I spose it depends on how big the coffee cup is that's keeping me going! The bike will probably take 3 LONG days (I'm assuming 1200-1500km each), but dunno whether I would have got off and said "F&@k it!" before that!

Normally the front variator would have about 2mm-3mm of untouched pulley sheave left on the top on a standard OEM set up.
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Old 01-20-2014, 05:47 PM   #85
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Wake up everybody, I'm back and I finally have some positive results to report. Today was perfact weather for testing but it was also my wifes birthday so only got in two full tests.
With the main jet opened to about a 77-78, the bike ran 9.57 sec. but the top speed didn't improve at all, still only 56.5 MPH.
Second test with main at about an 80 I got 9.44 Sec. at the exact same top speed.
While on the phone to Driller I discovered I'ld forgot to plug in both the carb heater and the enrichener, bystart, as Piaggio calls it. Hooked up both and tested again, 9.39 Sec. Didn't do top speed.
So now we are a little over 1.1 Sec improvment in acceleration. Very positive gain especially considering no gain in top speed.
I'm to the point now where it's just not going to get any better unless I do something to increase air flow. Next step will be to remove the intake tube. This I'm sure will throw jetting way off again. No testing weather for about a week at least so everything is on hold for now.
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Old 01-20-2014, 05:54 PM   #86
brianwheelies
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Carb size of fly versus Vespa 200?

Also, gearing is probably taller on the 200 Vespa as well.
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Old 01-20-2014, 07:40 PM   #87
Yellow Jacket
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Not sure about carb size or gearing. Maybe Driller will check in for us and let us know. I do have the Fly service manual on disk and will look it up. Gearing should show on a parts list but tire size also is a factor in the gearing.
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Old 01-20-2014, 08:03 PM   #88
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Just checked, carb size is 26.5MM. Rear tire is a 120/70-12, nothing on the trans ratios.
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Old 01-22-2014, 03:47 PM   #89
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Too cold here to do much on the Fly except I have spend some time going over the shop manual. It's a bit hard to make sense of, something has been lost in the translation. However, I did find an answer to my question earlier about a "soft" rev limiter. At 9000 rpm's one spark out of 7 is dropped. That means one power stroke out of four does not fire. If the rev's continue higher to 9300 rpm's 2 out of 3 sparks are dropped.

Today UPS delivered a neat little self contained tach that I will try the next time I get out on the fly. Will be very interested to see just what kind of rpm's it is turning.

Also while studying the air filter assembly it came to me that I may have installed the filter incorrectly, resulting in a restriction to the incoming air. I'm hoping this is the case and that it will account for not gaining any top speed with all that has been done. We'll see as soon as we get better weather. Stay tuned.
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Old 01-22-2014, 03:58 PM   #90
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Ha ha. What have you been doing to this poor bike!?

Hope you get it running proper!
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