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Old 01-03-2014, 06:07 PM   #76
Motovista
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driller View Post
Thanks, George. The SAS filter foam was falling apart when we pulled the fan shroud off. We replaced it with some foam we had that is coarser than the OEM stuff. Just wondering if that is more free flowing would the backfire/pop be related. Or, could some of the broken down foam filter have gotten in the SAS and be partially blocking it? Did you get the rubber variator ring in for the GT200?

Cold, cold cold. No testing right now.
It's freezing here too. Yes, I did get the o-rings, and some exhaust gaskets. I'm not sure if I put them up yet or not. We're changing the look of the site, so I've been putting less on until it's done. This is the time of year when I can get my own work done, so I used one to put a CVT FR4 Variator and Malossi XK Belt in my GT. Even with this weather, I've managed to go through most of a tank of gas since the changeout, and I want to see if my mileage does improve from the variator. I switched out the Leo Vince for a PM Tuning pipe about a month ago, and that made a surprising amount of difference in performance, and after I put the new variator and belt on it, and it pulls solidly through the midrange and tops out about 4-5 mph faster. Also, maintains speed up the Ravenal better. I've got a friend with a couple of GTS 250s, and when the weather gets better, I want to see how the GT performs compared to a stock GTS.
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Old 01-08-2014, 03:02 PM   #77
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Mike,
Just got back from the Left Coast on Sunday. We took the scooters on the Versahaul to visit Carol's family over the Holidays. The RV park was 5.5 miles from her uncle's place in Long Beach and I was able to put 125 miles on the Fly 150 (with the Malossi 190 kit) over the last week. I alternated with my GTS300 everyday. The Fly modification is almost exactly what I wanted in that it keeps up with the GTS in traffic and at stop lights, etc. When I swapped bikes, the 30-45 MPH strength of the GTS is more apparent, but in take off they are close. The Fly has been flawless, mileage is down from 65 to 50MPG, but I have been pretty heavy on the throttle and riding all two up. The Hotel California was 70-79 F all week long. It was 6 F at work yesterday.

Jim
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Old 01-11-2014, 07:46 AM   #78
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Welcome back to the sunny South, Jim. Sounds like the Fly is "Just Right".
We are almost there. We have some jets to install and test if the weather breaks in our favor.
One question. Was the air intake left stock on your Fly?
Hoping to move towards the prize soon.
Cheers!
Mike
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Old 01-11-2014, 08:12 AM   #79
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Yes, the air intake is still stock. No riding today. RAIN!
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Old 01-13-2014, 04:34 PM   #80
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After another boondoggle, this one my own fault, I finally got a couple #72 main jets. These are after market and not made with the same degree of precision as OEM jets are. However they will work for my testing. Jet numbers run very close to the actual hole size in MM. So the stock #82 jet is only .004 larger hole size than the #72 I have now.
With no other changes since the last test, I got 9.79 sec. and 57.5 MPH. I didn't expect the bike to run that well with jetting that is 4 sizes smaller than stock.
Weather permitting, tomorrow I will open that jet up very slightly to maybe a #75 and do another set of tests.
I have a full set of jet reamers from my days a Ford Motor Co. These reamers have a very slight taper to them. The deeper you go with the reamer, the larger you make the jet. That is how I know that these after market jets are not as precise as OEM's are. These jets have a straight hole threw them, not tapered as are all OEM's. FoMoCo could control the size of their jets to within a couple .0001th's of an inch.
More tomorrow, I hope.
Just got off the phone with Driller. He's planning to ride his 200 Vespa to my house tomorrow. If so, we may have a side by side test run to report on.
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Old 01-15-2014, 03:20 PM   #81
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Progress..

Vic and I got out to the measured course to test the latest jetting on the BlowFly yesterday. Yet again, the acceleration times dropped but the original top speed is eluding us! Gradually working up in size on the main jet (started at 72/stock is 82) yields quicker acceleration. Max speed averaged only 55 and we are stumped as to why the loss. After I left for home, he reamed the jet out some more and the top speed did improve to 57mph.
Perhaps things are still too lean.
The roller weights we are running are 10.5 gms more than stock of 60gms. I was sure the increase in power would compensate for the higher roller weight.
Plans are to mark the variator faces to see how high the belt is riding.

Vic will post the latest numbers soon. An interesting note is the BlowFly is now running the course only about .25 sec slower than my GT200. So, as far as acceleration goes we are getting closer to the original goals.
A slight error in installing the diaphragm in the carb on the GT was recently found and was slowing the bike down. Now after being corrected, the Vespa has never ran better.
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Old 01-16-2014, 07:00 AM   #82
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Excellent news, Mike.
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Old 01-16-2014, 02:41 PM   #83
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Has anyone here noticed that when I post test numbers it takes me a lot longer to get them up when the numbers are just so-so than when I can show good progress?
With that in mind, here are some more so-so numbers.
With that #72 jet reamed out, the time was 9.72 and 56 MPH top speed. Best time yet! Not much of a change since the 9.79 and 57.5 MPH with the #72 jet. This #72 jet does not have a tapered hole thru it so quite likely I didn't increase fuel flow much if at all. All I did was make the straight hole into a tapered one with the original size hole at the small end.
I did open the jet again to what would be about a 75 and retested. It was late so I didn't do the acceleration test, just a top end run which was up slightly to 57.5. The wind was calm on this run where it was a bit breezy on the previous run.
I'm now ready to try again when weather permits with the jet at about a #77. BTW, I'm getting pretty good at this jet cahnge thing. Got it done in 22 minutes this last time.
Now, if any one is still reading this, here are some really good #'s from Drillers GT200. Months ago when he first left the bike with me to fix a rough idle I tested it at 9.74 sec. Bad idle was caused by an intake air leak between the head and the manifold. During the fix, I unknowingly failed to get the carb diaphragm seated correctly. Tested at only 10.29 sec. I've scratched my head over this ever since. Driller has ridden the bike like this for over a thousand miles. We finally got the diaphragm problem fixed. On retesting we got down to 9.29 sec., over 1/2 sec better than when he bought the bike. Now the bike is a joy to ride. I love it when a plan comes together.
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Old 01-16-2014, 08:09 PM   #84
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Since I've tested the bike with and without the Evap system and found no change we've decided to remove it just to clean up the bike a little.
Here's a couple shots for before:




And after.




This is what came off. Foot is there only for size comparison.
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Old 01-16-2014, 08:23 PM   #85
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Sorry folks, I still haven't figured out how to reduce the size of my pictures. Tried but all I got was a white border on two sides.

I'm begining to wonder if maybe the small size of the intake is the reason we just can't seem to get past the 56-57 MPH barrier. Ok, I may have fat fingers but look at this, I can't even get my pinky finger into the intake. It actually measures about 7/10 th's of an inch. Much smaller than the carb throat. When I'm done with this stage of jetting, I'll see what happens without the intake tube. The incoming air has to make a 45* bend, then a 180* bend before doing a couple more turns just to get to the air filter. Sure looks choked to me.



Here's the little reamer I've been talking about that I use to take just a very tiny bit out of the jet at a time.
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Old 01-16-2014, 10:14 PM   #86
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The incoming air has to make a 45* bend, then a 180* bend before doing a couple more turns just to get to the air filter. Sure looks choked to me.

My X8 250ie has an air intake to the airbox that looks just like that, same size too I rekn.
I did notice a slight improvement in performance when I drilled a couple of 10mm holes in the airbox to help, but not all that much really, mainly just noise.
That sits on 120kph+ all day with that little tiny air tube.
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Old 01-17-2014, 08:00 AM   #87
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Modnrod, that is something Driller and I talked about. If I can find some black plastic plugs for the holes I may still do that. I want to be able to go back to stock if it doesn't work or is too much noise.
Also, I've used a magic marker to put marks on the variator where the belt rides to make sure the belt goes all the way to the top. After my next top end run I'll check that.
BTW, how long does it take for you to get from west Oz to east Oz with the throttle pinned on that X8?

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Old 01-17-2014, 06:44 PM   #88
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Took the BlowFly out today but too windy for any meaningful testing. Just ran it WFO a bit so I could check my marks on the variator. Here's a pix, doesn't look to me like the belt is going as high as it should, ie, not going all the way into the highest ratio. Anyone know anything about these things? Still new enough for me that I don't know how high the belt should go.

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Old 01-18-2014, 01:52 PM   #89
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BTW, how long does it take for you to get from west Oz to east Oz with the throttle pinned on that X8?
I spose it depends on how big the coffee cup is that's keeping me going! The bike will probably take 3 LONG days (I'm assuming 1200-1500km each), but dunno whether I would have got off and said "F&@k it!" before that!

Normally the front variator would have about 2mm-3mm of untouched pulley sheave left on the top on a standard OEM set up.
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Old 01-20-2014, 04:47 PM   #90
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Wake up everybody, I'm back and I finally have some positive results to report. Today was perfact weather for testing but it was also my wifes birthday so only got in two full tests.
With the main jet opened to about a 77-78, the bike ran 9.57 sec. but the top speed didn't improve at all, still only 56.5 MPH.
Second test with main at about an 80 I got 9.44 Sec. at the exact same top speed.
While on the phone to Driller I discovered I'ld forgot to plug in both the carb heater and the enrichener, bystart, as Piaggio calls it. Hooked up both and tested again, 9.39 Sec. Didn't do top speed.
So now we are a little over 1.1 Sec improvment in acceleration. Very positive gain especially considering no gain in top speed.
I'm to the point now where it's just not going to get any better unless I do something to increase air flow. Next step will be to remove the intake tube. This I'm sure will throw jetting way off again. No testing weather for about a week at least so everything is on hold for now.
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