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Old 11-27-2013, 04:51 PM   #31
concours
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For the OP, FI, because he said he could "learn" about carbs. And the FI won't need any adjusting. Keeping the cost down means just RIDE THE EFFIN THING, and no mod/farkle fest. Me? Carb any day.
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Old 11-27-2013, 05:09 PM   #32
Dominic49
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Originally Posted by larryboy View Post
They use a trap door to measure air speed, they usually gum up to the point of not moving, then the bike won't do much more than idle.

I got 330,000 miles out of a set of carbs, damn engine wore out before the bank of four carbs.
Trap door would indicate airflow meter which is not speed density. Speed density is a method of fuel injection with the computer 'guesses' the airflow based upon parameters such as temperature, pressure, throttle position. Engine volumetric efficacy.
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Old 11-29-2013, 07:34 PM   #33
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Cars answered this question years ago. Hands down you are less likely to need ANYTHING with a fuel injected car. Carbs have a lot of ways of breaking, clogging, and leaking. Add two carbs and you get four times the problems. Fuel injection has been sorted out to the point where there just is no issue with reliability anymore. Points based ignitions went the way of the Dodo bird, and float bowls with jets are going to the same place.
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Old 11-30-2013, 04:22 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by carockwell View Post
Cars answered this question years ago. Hands down you are less likely to need ANYTHING with a fuel injected car. Carbs have a lot of ways of breaking, clogging, and leaking. Add two carbs and you get four times the problems. Fuel injection has been sorted out to the point where there just is no issue with reliability anymore. Points based ignitions went the way of the Dodo bird, and float bowls with jets are going to the same place.
OK, you sound right. tell me how to clean out the fuel injector, in my cabin in the woods. no, really.
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Old 11-30-2013, 06:00 AM   #35
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OK, you sound right. tell me how to clean out the fuel injector, in my cabin in the woods. no, really.
easy. Run good gas, don't let it sit for 6 months and you won't have to. I have never had to clean an injector and have plenty of FI vehicles. My FI husky thumper has sat for a few months. Two bumps of the starter and comes right to life. My carb'd 4 cyl jap bikes will almost kill a fresh battery trying to get them back after sitting 3 months.
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Old 11-30-2013, 06:18 AM   #36
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You need to pick something common so in 20 years or less when you need the rubber boot between head and fuel thing throttle plate of your choice, and then between that thing and the air box you can find one. They get hard, since you seldom remove FI not as big an issue. After they get hard, they crack

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Old 11-30-2013, 06:44 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by sailah View Post
easy. Run good gas, don't let it sit for 6 months and you won't have to. I have never had to clean an injector and have plenty of FI vehicles. My FI husky thumper has sat for a few months. Two bumps of the starter and comes right to life. My carb'd 4 cyl jap bikes will almost kill a fresh battery trying to get them back after sitting 3 months.
I'm familiar with the wonders of efi... but how will you clean it?
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Old 11-30-2013, 06:52 AM   #38
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I'm familiar with the wonders of efi... but how will you clean it?
That's my point. You don't have to.

I have never run anything in any of my FI bikes or cars. They continue to run despite my lack of attention.

So the proverbial happens and you get a bad injector. Order a new one or used on ebay and go pick it up at the post office. He lives at 7000' I can't imagine he is riding his bike all year round without another jeep or something. He mentioned that he's on a fixed income and remote. Well, injectors aren't that expensive, neither are motorcycles when you get down to it.

He also mentioned he isn't exactly a race mechanic and I doubt he's going to be drilling slides or modifying acc pumps so what's the point?

If you want to tinker around with carbs go buy an old CB750 and knock yourself out. If you want a bike that will start in all weather, doesn't require fuel maintenance, runs great at all elevations and is fairly foolporoof, get FI.

That's how I see it, you and and can dance around in circles all we want but that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. Life's not foolproof, shit happens, I'd prefer to have a bike that did 98% of what I want well, and for the rest there's ebay and Amazon.
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Old 11-30-2013, 06:59 AM   #39
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I'm familiar with the wonders of efi... but how will you clean it?
9v battery across the terminals. Spray carb cleaner up the nozzle to back flush any crap caught in the filter.

Hell you can carry a $10 injector rebuild kit and swap the filter and Pintle cap on the side of the road with a drywall screw if you so desire. But if you keep up with ongoing maintenance there is 0 reason for it to get to the point where you need to do that.


http://www.maxbimmer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127450
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Old 11-30-2013, 07:00 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Dominic49 View Post
9v battery across the terminals. Spray carb cleaner up the nozzle to back flush any crap caught in the filter.

Hell you can carry a $10 injector rebuild kit and swap the filter and Pintle cap on the side of the road with a drywall screw if you so desire. But if you keep up with ongoing maintenance there is 0 reason for it to get to the point where you need to do that.


http://www.maxbimmer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127450
see, that's how. thanks !
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Old 11-30-2013, 08:37 AM   #41
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Let me throw in my 2 cents worth . Been riding and wrenching for about 45 years , so lots of carb work . I can fix any carb issue if I need to , but don't want to have to . I bought my current main ride a few years ago and of course it is fuel injected . A 2008 DL VStrom 650 . From all the reading I did before and after buying it , it appears to be about as dependable as a hammer . I only have around 17,000 miles on it , so just getting broke in . Cold weather starting and riding at big elevation changes I no longer think about . Use clean gas and don't worry . Every time I let my 1983 V-45 Sabre sit , I always pray to the bike gods I won't have to remove and clean the carbs . FI = less stress and worry , in my opinion . If you can't stand leaving the stock exhaust on , you will need to change jets and tune a carb or re program the engine controller . I have found over the years , most of the time the factory engineers do a pretty good job of compromise . I do not know what kind of roads you will be traveling on , but so far my WeeStrom has handled more than I thought it could . Good luck and happy retirement !
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Old 11-30-2013, 10:33 AM   #42
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Some of you discuss FI as if it only consisted of injectors. If it was that simple my carbureted bike would have some.

Injectors are 1 part of a system, any one of the components can leave you stranded.

What makes the injectors impervious to crappy/old fuel? Like jets in a carb those injectors can get plugged with bad gas. Yes you can clean them, just like jets in a carb.

You need a fuel pump to make the necessary pressure to force fuel through the injectors. If single rail type, there is a controller, an electrical switch, that dictates how much pressure and for how long. It needs a computer (ecu) to generate and pass that message to the controller and on most bikes the ignition system. It needs a battery, as most systems operate on 12 volts. A malfunction in any one of them means your bike is dead.

Are they that reliable? mostly so, unless you own a BMW F800 or certain model KTM's.

Compare that to a carb. Most are gravity fuel fed. On older bikes the ignition component is separate from the fuel component. Got a dead battery, bump start it, the ignition runs off the stator.


Buy yourself a single cylinder, air cooled, carbureted bike, Japanese bike. If you are not going to ride it for a while at least turn the gas off at the petcock and run it till the engine dies.

Buy them when you can, they won't be here in 20 years.
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Old 11-30-2013, 11:03 AM   #43
Motomantra
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'01 ZX9 has 4 carbs

45 k. miles, 11 years. Other than a re-jet to relieve emissions created issues, & an occasional float bowl drain to inspect, no problems.
The biggest problem I've had is elevation, as it's jetted at sea level. My DL, on the other hand, always "carburates" normally.
Each have advantages.
This has turning into another oil thread.
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Old 11-30-2013, 11:43 AM   #44
k-moe
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" In starting conventional engines based on a carburetor system, the pistons were operated by cell motors or by kicks and the negative pressure and mechanical throttle actions sucked fuel out. In the electronically controlled fuel injection system, however, electric power is required to inject fuel for the start of engines. For small motorcycles like 50cc scooters, kick-starts are required in case of complete discharge of batteries after having been stoked for a long time. In the PGM-FI newly developed for 50cc scooters, engines will start with a small electric current created by kicking, which was difficult in the conventional FI system. Reliable engine starting was made possible by kicking even when the batteries have gone dead, by the development of a system to supply power generated by kicking in a fraction of a second to only the circuit required for starting and power saving fuel pumps.

PGM-FI unit

By kicking, the ACG will generate power. The little power generated will be supplied with priority to the circuit for ignition and fuel injection, shutting off circuits to batteries and lights. The time effective for the purpose is approximately 0.2 seconds, which is equivalent to about a stroke of suction, compression, explosion and exhaust, or to 2.5 times of crank rotation by kicking."

From: http://world.honda.com/motorcycle-te...pgm-fi/p3.html
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:53 AM   #45
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I'm currently in the process of rebuilding and adding a Holeshot stage 1 to my '05 Bandit. I have all 4 carbs on the workbench and it is a fairly simple process. However, getting the carbs out was tricky and getting them back in is gonna suck big time. There is just not much room to work between the airbox and the engine. If this bike was FI (like the new 1250 Bandits) it would be perfect for me.

The only bike I would buy that is carb'd is a thumper. I can deal with one carb.

If I was buying new I would go FI for sure. At your elevation, a FI bike will be much better.

BTW, I always buy bikes that I'm "gonna keep forever". A few years later I get that old wandering eye again.
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