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Old 12-06-2013, 01:26 PM   #61
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That's a pretty sweet looking stand there 4Play, and it seems easy enough to fabricate. I'll have to keep that in mind for the day that I decide to build a bike from scratch.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron650 View Post
First, I want to say that Versys is looking awesome! I would totally buy that.
But I have a few concerns-

[*]The front wheel looks way unsupported. Maybe it's strong enough, and likely it's stronger than the stock Versys wheel, but a spoke wheel would seem to be much stronger and more repairable.
I don't know if you're right or wrong, but I will say that I'm not worried about the DL1000 front wheel, even if it's a cast wheel as opposed to a spoked wheel. This wheel has been tried and tested for thousands of miles by many people in all kinds of terrains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron650 View Post
[*]Running one caliper seems dodgy, especially the 2-pot pin-slide on the Versys. I would not want half the braking power, especially with a bike loaded for touring.
Well I guess that comes down to a matter of opinion. Does going from a dual disc set up to a single disc set up minimize your braking power? Of course, but what I also know for a fact that someone that I know personally has run this set up for thousands of miles without any stopping issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron650 View Post
[*]Those self-rounding caliper bolts are trash, that's before chasing the threads. I replaced them and I've got an apparently redundant caliper!
Um, not really sure what you're trying to say, other than the stock OEM caliper bolts are poor quality to begin with, and that chasing the threads farther down the bolt weakens the bolt even more. I'll have to defer to your expertise, as I don't have any engineering background with which to either confirm or deny this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron650 View Post
[*]The R1 shock has always seemed a dubious proposition. It's undersprung for the Versys, then once you get it re-sprung it's underdamped for the spring. Combine that with the bushings and the gas cartridge issues and I truly wonder why people bother with it.
So what is your alternative?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron650 View Post
[*]It now looks like a dirtbike, but it was never designed as a dirtbike. Maybe that's ok for you, but people seem to love the idea of an ADVersys so much that they forget the under the plastics it's just a price-point Ninja.
Ok, so what's your point? That it's still just a Versys/Ninja? Ok, I've never made any claims that it's anything but. Actually, I love the fact that it's still just a Versys/Ninja.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron650 View Post
I say all that with love, I have over 40k on my '09 and it's been a great bike for me. But when I started missing my Baja Bike I bought a used DR650. Good luck with the project, I'm definitely coming back to see how it's going!
Thanks, and I hope you enjoy the rest of the build.
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Old 12-06-2013, 05:10 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Baron650 View Post
I say all that with love


I'd hate to see what you would say in malice.

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Old 12-07-2013, 05:05 AM   #63
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Hey XCR, you guys are making the conversion look really easy and quick. Nice work. Did you chrome? the spacers to make them more durable or for looks?

JDrocks always states that his bikes are gravel runners and has proven them to hold up to many gravel miles. I wonder who has pushed a conversion bike the furthest as far as harsh terrain. Knowing some of the terrain available to 4play, it might be him. (the crash bars you sold me are still on 4play's bike, BTW)

He might comment on how the stuff holds up on "baja" type tracks. His wheels and brakes are different from yours but he has the r1 shock and probably knows damping feel etc.

I think Sailah probably rides fast, too but I'm not sure how dirty his bike is yet.
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Old 12-07-2013, 05:09 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron650 View Post
First, I want to say that Versys is looking awesome! I would totally buy that.
But I have a few concerns-
  • The front wheel looks way unsupported. Maybe it's strong enough, and likely it's stronger than the stock Versys wheel, but a spoke wheel would seem to be much stronger and more repairable.
  • Running one caliper seems dodgy, especially the 2-pot pin-slide on the Versys. I would not want half the braking power, especially with a bike loaded for touring.
  • Those self-rounding caliper bolts are trash, that's before chasing the threads. I replaced them and I've got an apparently redundant caliper!
  • The R1 shock has always seemed a dubious proposition. It's undersprung for the Versys, then once you get it re-sprung it's underdamped for the spring. Combine that with the bushings and the gas cartridge issues and I truly wonder why people bother with it.
  • It now looks like a dirtbike, but it was never designed as a dirtbike. Maybe that's ok for you, but people seem to love the idea of an ADVersys so much that they forget the under the plastics it's just a price-point Ninja.
I say all that with love, I have over 40k on my '09 and it's been a great bike for me. But when I started missing my Baja Bike I bought a used DR650. Good luck with the project, I'm definitely coming back to see how it's going!
He had a KLR so he will be alright with shitty brakes
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eddie bolted screwed with this post 12-07-2013 at 05:15 AM
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Old 12-07-2013, 07:09 AM   #65
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I hang my head in shame at how fast you did that build. I miss one day of updates and you are already on a test ride!! That's awesome. It's great having a friend with machine tools or learning the skills yourself.

I remember the first time I was trying to fit YZ forks in some weird triple clamps or maybe it was KTM forks in YZ triple clamps. Either way I remember "machining" a bushing on my drill press by holding it and scalloping out a larger bushing using a 1" S&D drill bit. I shudder at how far I have come in terms of making small parts. I think having a lathe was the biggest turning point.

Regarding some of the questions about braking etc from another poster...

I also have a 2 pot caliper on my bike. And although mine is lighter I'm guessing, they are probably comparable. I think an easy upgrade is to get a 320mm rotor and a caliper relocating bracket. Or since you have a friend with machine tools, you could adapt a sportbike 300ish mm rotor and then fit a 4 piston caliper from a Ducati or something. Either will dramatically improve your braking without adding much weight. My setup is a 320mm rotor with a Braking radial master cylinder and a Braking caliper. That setup is 1 finger stoppie type power and very easy to modulate. I would also think about losing the other rotor if you are not going to use it and save the unsprung weight.

I haven't ridden the R1 shock so I can't comment but I have to think that it must be able to be revalved if so required. Even my KTM shocked bike needs to get revalved as I'm blowing right through the valving using all the stroke of the swingarm I am running. I would guess, just as the OP did, that any other shock alternative that is going to fit in the factory envelope is either going to require some serious coin for a custom, and I mean totally custom, shock or massive fabrication efforts to stuff a longer travel version which might require a complete rebuild. That's the way I went and I don't recommend it. Took forever and complicated things tremendously. It's awesome to have 300mm of travel in the rear but it took a huge amount of work.

I also agree with the OP that I love these are cheap ninjas. It might be a cheap bike but the powerplant is stupid reliable. It's also very easy to fix, parts are everywhere. Hell if you grenade a motor, unlikely, there are 20 on eBay. Try that on a KTM 990. I've been very impressed with the Ninja engine and I think it matches what the ADVersys Rat Ninja type bikes are trying to achieve.

It's great to see a build where the bike is wheeled in the garage on Friday and rolls out on Monday ready to rip with most of the hard work done in short order. Sorry didn't mean to hijack the thread
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Old 12-07-2013, 07:12 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dentvet View Post
I think Sailah probably rides fast, too but I'm not sure how dirty his bike is yet.
I've hit 90-100 on dirt roads in WV. Handles like a big-ass dirt bike. I've also followed guys offroad on quad type trails, they were on 450s and I did just fine. I can usually catch them back in the straights. when the going get real tough it starts showing its weight. But, once you get back out on the blacktop and the roads starts to get curvy....
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Old 12-07-2013, 08:03 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron650 View Post
First, I want to say that Versys is looking awesome! I would totally buy that.
But I have a few concerns-
  • The front wheel looks way unsupported. Maybe it's strong enough, and likely it's stronger than the stock Versys wheel, but a spoke wheel would seem to be much stronger and more repairable.
  • Running one caliper seems dodgy, especially the 2-pot pin-slide on the Versys. I would not want half the braking power, especially with a bike loaded for touring.
  • Those self-rounding caliper bolts are trash, that's before chasing the threads. I replaced them and I've got an apparently redundant caliper!
  • The R1 shock has always seemed a dubious proposition. It's undersprung for the Versys, then once you get it re-sprung it's underdamped for the spring. Combine that with the bushings and the gas cartridge issues and I truly wonder why people bother with it.
  • It now looks like a dirtbike, but it was never designed as a dirtbike. Maybe that's ok for you, but people seem to love the idea of an ADVersys so much that they forget the under the plastics it's just a price-point Ninja.
I say all that with love, I have over 40k on my '09 and it's been a great bike for me. But when I started missing my Baja Bike I bought a used DR650. Good luck with the project, I'm definitely coming back to see how it's going!
All motorcycles are a compromise in one area or another. What those of us that build these are doing is taking advantage of an excellent engine/gearbox & shifting the compromises closer to our needs.

Front wheel, never heard of ANYONE having an non collision issue although Dave gave me a head start with a spoked 21".

As far as a single disc, the 320mm rotor on mine is the same as the 100hp KTM 950SE comes with stock & I don't hear anyone complain about those? Mine stops well, no it's not a dual disc street bike setup again compromise, but it works very well.

R1 shock, I don't think I've ever owned a dual sport bike that I didn't have re sprung & re valved. Mine was re valved by Pete Russel of Nost & works better than a stock KTM Adventure which is arguably the best offroad capable Adventure bike you can buy. My total cost including spring & modified valving was $220. That's why people fool with it. Perfect? No, perfect would have a larger piston & more cooling area.

I've ridden with DR650's, 950KTM SE's & Adventures, XR650R's. L's & KTM690's. The bottomless low speed sand was the only place I lusted after one of the singles. High speed sand, no worries. One ride in particular myself & a DR slabbed it back to Phx from Benson. I can run 85mph all day comfortably, his DR was hating life, again compromise...
These are never going to be dirtbikes, but they do make very capable offroad Adventure bikes vs a stock Versys being compromised for cost & compromised for street use.






components.


My compromise is a two up capable street bike that can explore the endless trails of AZ without hurting itself or me, I do have a real dirt bike for the really tight nasty stuff. I like the bike well enough to be considering building a KLRsys style frame specifically for my
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4play screwed with this post 12-07-2013 at 05:06 PM
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Old 12-07-2013, 06:25 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dentvet View Post
Hey XCR, you guys are making the conversion look really easy and quick. Nice work. Did you chrome? the spacers to make them more durable or for looks?

JDrocks always states that his bikes are gravel runners and has proven them to hold up to many gravel miles. I wonder who has pushed a conversion bike the furthest as far as harsh terrain. Knowing some of the terrain available to 4play, it might be him. (the crash bars you sold me are still on 4play's bike, BTW)

He might comment on how the stuff holds up on "baja" type tracks. His wheels and brakes are different from yours but he has the r1 shock and probably knows damping feel etc.

I think Sailah probably rides fast, too but I'm not sure how dirty his bike is yet.
Heya! I'm able to make the conversion look easy to do all the hard work and fantastic write ups of JDrocks. What you don't see if the hours I spent between September and now reading through his build thread, sending him multiple PMs back & forth, and spending hours on the internet trying to find the parts I needed used. The actual work is really easy when you know what you're doing and you've got all the parts handy. And like I said before, having good friends who are experienced in machining & wrenching in general also helps a lot too!

Glad to hear those crash bars went to good use. When I decided to get another Versys, I was kicking myself in the butt a little for having sold those, but I was lucky enough that the Versys I picked up had a set of crash bars that came with it. I did run with the idea of trying to fab up a skid plate myself, but quickly decided that for the money & quality, you just can't beat the SW-Motech skid plate.

Got all the parts from plating back in, as well as the front axle, so we got the bike back together today. Update will follow shortly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sailah View Post
I hang my head in shame at how fast you did that build. I miss one day of updates and you are already on a test ride!! That's awesome. It's great having a friend with machine tools or learning the skills yourself.

I remember the first time I was trying to fit YZ forks in some weird triple clamps or maybe it was KTM forks in YZ triple clamps. Either way I remember "machining" a bushing on my drill press by holding it and scalloping out a larger bushing using a 1" S&D drill bit. I shudder at how far I have come in terms of making small parts. I think having a lathe was the biggest turning point.

Regarding some of the questions about braking etc from another poster...

I also have a 2 pot caliper on my bike. And although mine is lighter I'm guessing, they are probably comparable. I think an easy upgrade is to get a 320mm rotor and a caliper relocating bracket. Or since you have a friend with machine tools, you could adapt a sportbike 300ish mm rotor and then fit a 4 piston caliper from a Ducati or something. Either will dramatically improve your braking without adding much weight. My setup is a 320mm rotor with a Braking radial master cylinder and a Braking caliper. That setup is 1 finger stoppie type power and very easy to modulate. I would also think about losing the other rotor if you are not going to use it and save the unsprung weight.

I haven't ridden the R1 shock so I can't comment but I have to think that it must be able to be revalved if so required. Even my KTM shocked bike needs to get revalved as I'm blowing right through the valving using all the stroke of the swingarm I am running. I would guess, just as the OP did, that any other shock alternative that is going to fit in the factory envelope is either going to require some serious coin for a custom, and I mean totally custom, shock or massive fabrication efforts to stuff a longer travel version which might require a complete rebuild. That's the way I went and I don't recommend it. Took forever and complicated things tremendously. It's awesome to have 300mm of travel in the rear but it took a huge amount of work.

I also agree with the OP that I love these are cheap ninjas. It might be a cheap bike but the powerplant is stupid reliable. It's also very easy to fix, parts are everywhere. Hell if you grenade a motor, unlikely, there are 20 on eBay. Try that on a KTM 990. I've been very impressed with the Ninja engine and I think it matches what the ADVersys Rat Ninja type bikes are trying to achieve.

It's great to see a build where the bike is wheeled in the garage on Friday and rolls out on Monday ready to rip with most of the hard work done in short order. Sorry didn't mean to hijack the thread

Welcome to the the thread, and thanks for your comments on insights; especially in light of the fact that you have a similar machine and therefor has first hand knowledge of what the bike can handle.

Both you and Dave now have suggested that I not keep the whole rotor on the side of the wheel without the caliper. I'll have to give that some more thought. I hate the idea of cutting up a perfectly good rotor. What I may have to do instead is start to keep an eye our for a cheap rotor that I wouldn't feel bad about cutting up. Anyone got an old rotor laying around with the right bolt pattern?

With more and more of us creating these hybrid bikes, well have to put together a Franken-Bike weekend camp out and ride!


Quote:
Originally Posted by 4play View Post
All motorcycles are a compromise in one area or another. What those of us that build these are doing is taking advantage of an excellent engine/gearbox & shifting the compromises closer to our needs.

Front wheel, never heard of ANYONE having an non collision issue although Dave gave me a head start with a spoked 21".

As far as a single disc, the 320mm rotor on mine is the same as the 100hp KTM 950SE comes with stock & I don't hear anyone complain about those? Mine stops well, no it's not a dual disc street bike setup again compromise, but it works very well.

R1 shock, I don't think I've ever owned a dual sport bike that I didn't have re sprung & re valved. Mine was re valved by Pete Russel of Nost & works better than a stock KTM Adventure which is arguably the best offroad capable Adventure bike you can buy. My total cost including spring & modified valving was $220. That's why people fool with it. Perfect? No, perfect would have a larger piston & more cooling area.

I've ridden with DR650's, 950KTM SE's & Adventures, XR650R's. L's & KTM690's. The bottomless low speed sand was the only place I lusted after one of the singles. High speed sand, no worries. One ride in particular myself & a DR slabbed it back to Phx from Benson. I can run 85mph all day comfortably, his DR was hating life, again compromise...
These are never going to be dirtbikes, but they do make very capable offroad Adventure bikes vs a stock Versys being compromised for cost & compromised for street use.






components.


My compromise is a two up capable street bike that can explore the endless trails of AZ without hurting itself or me, I do have a real dirt bike for the really tight nasty stuff. I like the bike well enough to be considering building a KLRsys style frame specifically for my
Amen brother, couldn't have said it any better.

Looks like you're having a blast out west with yours!
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Old 12-07-2013, 06:40 PM   #69
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UPDATE

So, like I said up above, parts came back from plating.



They were plated with some kind of Zinc plating. Looks good, and should hold up well.

Next step was to take the axle that now had the threads machined farther down the shaft...



And mock it up with the front wheel in place to see where we wanted to cut it, and location for the cotter pin hole. With that done, we place the axle on the mill to drill out the hole for the cotter pin.



Step one after locating the axle was to drill a small divot in the axle using a hardened/cabide bit. A regular drill bit can easily flex and/or walk on you. This bit would not only locate the hole (kinda like a center punch), but also provide a small chamfer for the cotter pin hole. Once the hole was located, we then drill through the axle with a #17 bit (as seen in the picture above), flipped the axle over and chamfered the other end of the hole.

Next step, mount the axle in the lathe to cut it off to length, and chamfer the end of the axle.



Locked & loaded, and ready to cut!



Cutting. (Clarence makes all this look just way too easy! I don't know how I would achieve such a nice job without his help.)



Then end result, once everything is put back together.



We also bolted on the extended kick stand. Only thing I need for it is a new spring. The stock Versys kick stand spring is too long and doesn't hold up the KLR kick stand. New spring ought to be in next week, but in the mean time and bungee cord will work! After all, this bike is now sporting KLR parts! Sorry my KLR brethren, I just couldn't help it! All kidding aside, that kick stand is killer!

With the kick stand put on, it was time to load the bike onto the trailer and take it back home.

Next up....figuring out what to use for a front fender, and fabricating a mount for it. I'll be going a similar route to JDrocks in the sense that I've got a DRZ fork brace coming to me (should be here next week), and I'll mount a low front fender from it. I may also put a beak on the bike, but I'll wait and see what the bike looks like with the fender first. And once the fender is mounted, it will be time for a REAL TEST RIDE! Hopefully some time around the Christmas holiday!
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Old 12-08-2013, 05:21 AM   #70
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Regarding the wheel and rotor, why can't you machine up a cap with the (EDIT) 5 bolt holes instead of cutting up a rotor?

If you know the bolt circle diameter it's pretty simple on a mill with a dro. Or I can cut you one on the waterjet.
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Old 12-08-2013, 06:03 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailah View Post
Regarding the wheel and rotor, why can't you machine up a cap with the six bolt holes instead of cutting up a rotor?
^ This. And if you make it from a piece of aluminum you'll probably be reducing un-sprung weight even more.
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Old 12-09-2013, 02:09 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4play View Post
vs a stock Versys
oh no you dit-ent?
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Old 12-10-2013, 09:41 AM   #73
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Single Brake Caliper

With the comments about the suspected inadequacy of a single brake caliper, I am really glad you did not share my suggestion that we just go Easy Rider style and dispense with the front brake entirely. A single caliper is not so bad until you really have to panic stop a fully loaded KLR while tailgating a DRZ trying to do what the GPS wants. Clarence can attest to that
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Old 12-10-2013, 11:12 AM   #74
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I'll add my two cents. The braking power of a single caliper will be moot when the traction of a dirt oriented tire will be the real cause of slower stopping.

On with the great build thread.

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Old 12-13-2013, 06:31 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailah View Post
Regarding the wheel and rotor, why can't you machine up a cap with the (EDIT) 5 bolt holes instead of cutting up a rotor?

If you know the bolt circle diameter it's pretty simple on a mill with a dro. Or I can cut you one on the waterjet.
You know, it's funny you say this. I've been thinking about this exact same thing for the last couple of days!

However, the word waterjet never came up in my brain storming! I may have to beg/borrow/plead for access to that machine. If nothing else, I'd love to see one in action in person one day.

Yes, I'm a tool geek!


Quote:
Originally Posted by DougZ73 View Post
I'll add my two cents. The braking power of a single caliper will be moot when the traction of a dirt oriented tire will be the real cause of slower stopping.

On with the great build thread.

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Another valid point.

Also, while I enjoy riding in a spirited manner from time to time, I think of myself as a more conservative rider. This combined with the fact that this bike is not a true crotch rocket such as some of the other bikes out there, I think that the single front brake (with a rotor that is bigger than the stock Versys rotors) will be sufficient FOR ME!
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