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Old 01-25-2014, 12:45 PM   #16
MotoTex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kommando View Post
I'm glad you mentioned the road being clean and decent tires. I've had a front knobby let go on the pavement, and I didn't feel like I was even pushing it that hard. I was able to save it, but I can definitely see how a bike possibly wouldn't make a turn if traction let go or hard parts dragged.
Which reminds me of my younger and wilder days. I used to have a lot of friends who were Harley enthusiasts. They were more fun to hang around with than the other riders.

Anyway, this was back in the late 80's, and after tossing back a few beers we were off to the local small-town festival. We pulled out of the drive and onto the two-lane highway headed uphill into town. In my infinite wisdom I thought it was a good time to show off by executing a couple of sweeping deep turns while maintaining my lane. The K75C I rode then was perfectly capable of going from dragging the left peg to dragging the right peg and do all of this within a lane's width.

I forgot to factor in that the tires had only had about thirty seconds of "warming" at this point.

I dove left, towards the centerline, then heaved heavily as I was want to do in order to execute this particular maneuver and, as all the forces of physics were focused on the front tire contact patch, it let go. Let's say for argument sake that business picked up for me about then. The effects of the beers were lost in a rush of adrenalin and I found myself saving the washout by bringing the bike upright in the wrong lane as oncoming traffic crested the hill.

It all worked out, I avoided the washout on a cold tire, and I believe that I inconvenienced the oncoming car a little as I made my way back into my lane, but still completely impressed my HD buddies with this epic save. (very embarrassing for me)

Most of what I took away was the reminder that has forever stuck in my mind to make absolutely sure the tires are warm before going all Blue Angels on the pavement, and, to be ever wary of the tight spots a little six-pack courage can get you into.

The bike just wouldn't make the turn, almost. Fortunately for both of us there was enough muscle memory from experience to prevent it being much worse.

Moral to the story: Despite all the things that were playing against me, what saved my ass was practice.

Practice counter-steering often. Make emergency swerves something you do for fun often enough that they are automatic responses when you need them. Oh, and take into consideration all of the conditions that play a part, tires, pavement, state of mind, and all things that might affect the outcome. In the long run having the practiced abilities in the tool belt will offer more benefit than simply understanding what to do and having practiced it once during a Rider Course years ago.

One way I do this is on an open road with no traffic I'll thread the needle slaloming in the space between each painted stripe. This can only be done at highway speed with quite a bit of force applied to the handlebars, and it is safer as it doesn't require high lean angles. It is a convincer for those who think they don't believe in countersteering. You cannot do this with body lean, never touching paint for half a mile of weaving.
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MotoTex screwed with this post 01-25-2014 at 01:26 PM
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Old 01-25-2014, 02:51 PM   #17
Kommando
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Originally Posted by andykeck View Post
I would also suspect that this rider had a problem with his outside arm fighting what his inside arm is doing. I don't know if it's a psychological thing or simply natural muscle tension, but my riding got so much better when I started to concentrate on keeping my outside arm 'loose' while turning. It was like getting an all-new, much sportier bike when I learned that trick.
'You want to improve even more, trying PULLING with your outside arm while pushing with your inside arm.
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Old 01-25-2014, 03:34 PM   #18
Bar None
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Originally Posted by PirateJohn View Post
Yup. I found that I could switch between countersteering and "conventional" riding pretty easily, but at the end of a long trip on a bike with relatively narrow handlebars my arms and shoulders would be dead tired. Much easier to countersteer a big GS BMW than a K1100RS or a K100RS, which originally had some seriously narrow bars fitted.
Piratejohn,
What is this "conventional" riding that you speak of? Are you saying that you don't need to counter steer a two wheel motorcycle?
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Old 01-25-2014, 04:50 PM   #19
scootrboi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
Which reminds me of my younger and wilder days. I used to have a lot of friends who were Harley enthusiasts. They were more fun to hang around with than the other riders.

Anyway, this was back in the late 80's, and after tossing back a few beers we were off to the local small-town festival. We pulled out of the drive and onto the two-lane highway headed uphill into town. In my infinite wisdom I thought it was a good time to show off by executing a couple of sweeping deep turns while maintaining my lane. The K75C I rode then was perfectly capable of going from dragging the left peg to dragging the right peg and do all of this within a lane's width.

I forgot to factor in that the tires had only had about thirty seconds of "warming" at this point.

I dove left, towards the centerline, then heaved heavily as I was want to do in order to execute this particular maneuver and, as all the forces of physics were focused on the front tire contact patch, it let go. Let's say for argument sake that business picked up for me about then. The effects of the beers were lost in a rush of adrenalin and I found myself saving the washout by bringing the bike upright in the wrong lane as oncoming traffic crested the hill.

It all worked out, I avoided the washout on a cold tire, and I believe that I inconvenienced the oncoming car a little as I made my way back into my lane, but still completely impressed my HD buddies with this epic save. (very embarrassing for me)

Most of what I took away was the reminder that has forever stuck in my mind to make absolutely sure the tires are warm before going all Blue Angels on the pavement, and, to be ever wary of the tight spots a little six-pack courage can get you into.

The bike just wouldn't make the turn, almost. Fortunately for both of us there was enough muscle memory from experience to prevent it being much worse.

Moral to the story: Despite all the things that were playing against me, what saved my ass was practice.

Practice counter-steering often. Make emergency swerves something you do for fun often enough that they are automatic responses when you need them. Oh, and take into consideration all of the conditions that play a part, tires, pavement, state of mind, and all things that might affect the outcome. In the long run having the practiced abilities in the tool belt will offer more benefit than simply understanding what to do and having practiced it once during a Rider Course years ago.

One way I do this is on an open road with no traffic I'll thread the needle slaloming in the space between each painted stripe. This can only be done at highway speed with quite a bit of force applied to the handlebars, and it is safer as it doesn't require high lean angles. It is a convincer for those who think they don't believe in countersteering. You cannot do this with body lean, never touching paint for half a mile of weaving.
Yeah. I want to be just like you.
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Old 01-25-2014, 04:59 PM   #20
Solarbronco
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Man, every freakinbody should be required to ride single track trails on Dirtbikes before getting on a heavy street bike. When you can ride standing up on a six inch wide trail next to a cliff and powerslide corners without even thinking about it, you are then ready for a so called adventure bike and only having to worry about staying upright in a big wide road lane. Oh, and cars.
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Old 01-25-2014, 05:01 PM   #21
joexr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solarbronco View Post
Man, every freakinbody should be required to ride single track trails on Dirtbikes before getting on a heavy street bike. When you can ride standing up on a six inch wide trail next to a cliff and powerslide corners without even thinking about it, you are then ready for a so called adventure bike and only having to worry about staying upright in a big wide road lane. Oh, and cars.
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Old 01-25-2014, 05:08 PM   #22
troops
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Suspension setup

I can relate my experience, (the bike just wouldn't turn.) Being a new rider ,2 years I'm probably still learning a lot of things you more experienced guys take for granted. I recently upgraded from a DR650 to VFR1200x. The thing I noticed most with the big bike is how much that little dial that adjusts rear preload affects cornering. Before I dialed in the suspension to my needs the force required initiate a turn was huge, and it often took me by surprize coming into a tighter than usual corner. It just felt like the bike wouldn't turn,but I was just to scared to be more forcefull with the steering. I wonder if his panniers were loaded at the time?
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Old 01-25-2014, 05:22 PM   #23
MotoTex
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Originally Posted by scootrboi View Post
Yeah. I want to be just like you.
Neither do I want to be like that, now. This is why I had to dig back a quarter century to find such a story. Perhaps you always lived the straight and narrow in your youth, or just like to paint it as if you did. Me, not so much. I survived just the same and don't mind sharing if it helps someone by doing so. Well, not you, of course.
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Old 01-25-2014, 05:31 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by scootrboi View Post
Yeah. I want to be just like you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
Neither do I want to be like that, now. This is why I had to dig back a quarter century to find such a story. Perhaps you always lived the straight and narrow in your youth, or just like to paint it as if you did. Me, not so much. I survived just the same and don't mind sharing if it helps someone by doing so. Well, not you, of course.
I hear scooter gangs are rampant in England .:ymca
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Old 01-25-2014, 05:47 PM   #25
baloneyskin daddy
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Originally Posted by Tim McKittrick View Post
I concur- on our track the first turn at the end of the back straight can be entered at about 130 mph- it's a left flick followed by a right and you scrub speed as you enter but don't brake. Do it correctly and you are set up for the next left. It takes all of my strength to muscle my Honda RS250 through those turns at pace, and that's a machine that only weighs 250 pounds. I apply enough countersteering force that the handgrips (renthal soft) wear out each season as do the palms of my gloves.
Cmon , Really, a pair of grips and the palms of your gloves in one session on a RS 250!I have friends that roadraced and used the same gloves for an entire season of racing.
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Old 01-25-2014, 05:49 PM   #26
henshao
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If the bike would have made the turn, then I wouldn't have had to lay 'er down.
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Old 01-25-2014, 05:55 PM   #27
joexr
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Originally Posted by baloneyskin daddy View Post
Cmon , Really, a pair of grips and the palms of your gloves in one session on a RS 250!I have friends that roadraced and used the same gloves for an entire season of racing.
He said SEASON.
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Old 01-25-2014, 05:59 PM   #28
scootrboi
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Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
Neither do I want to be like that, now. This is why I had to dig back a quarter century to find such a story. Perhaps you always lived the straight and narrow in your youth, or just like to paint it as if you did. Me, not so much. I survived just the same and don't mind sharing if it helps someone by doing so. Well, not you, of course.
You gave us a good story. And a good moral. I was just thinking of a different one (moral), and it struck me funny. You are right, a conscious knowledge and familiarity with countersteering is precious when a quick response is needed.
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Old 01-25-2014, 06:16 PM   #29
baloneyskin daddy
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He said SEASON.
I'm an idiot, I could have sworn it said session.
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Old 01-25-2014, 09:28 PM   #30
troops
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Originally Posted by baloneyskin daddy View Post
I'm an idiot, I could have sworn it said session.
The first time I read it I thought it said "session" too.
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