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Old 08-24-2012, 09:03 PM   #316
assquatch20
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Worst case scenario, it wouldn't be the first false idol that did some good, in practice and in spirit. I mean, can we consider that?
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Old 08-24-2012, 09:56 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by Chisenhallw View Post
He's a Flyers fan, 'nuff said. Just smile, nod and keep on moving until you can't hear any longer. The last player in the NHL to don a helmet ,under extreme duress, was a Flyer. It goes with the territory. FWIW, they actually can be dropped on their heads without causing further damage or injury. Don't feel insulted, that may actually have been a compliment.

BTW, if you are old enough, LeMond was the first American to bring sunlight to cycling in the US. Had he not taken a scattergun to the back, he may have been a bigger influence. Big if. However, his back stabbing has caused me to lose my enamor of him.

So we are to believe that Hinault won his five on pure unadulterated talent. Shoe shines, haircuts, and butt wipes aside; Lance Armstrong could not have won his seven without being a doper? Without a positive test, nonetheless? Just because we think he mighta, coulda, shoulda?

The tour is won in one of the most physical, mental and persevering chess matches possible. It is full of danger, obstacles man-made or natural and potential miscalculations. So even if you did dope, that would not be enough to win in and of itself.

Who is next Kenny Roberts, Wayne Rainey, Eddie Lawson, Mario Andretti, Richard Petty? Who would we like to demonize next to further some scumbag lawyers sense of duty? I am sure you could find some after the fact revelation to suggest they all cheated. What they did was out-think (or surround themselves with those who could) the rest and then outperform them. Hmmmmmm, is that cheating or competition?
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Old 08-24-2012, 10:06 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by shrineclown View Post

Who is next Kenny Roberts, Wayne Rainey, Eddie Lawson, Mario Andretti, Richard Petty? Who would we like to demonize next to further some scumbag lawyers sense of duty? I am sure you could find some after the fact revelation to suggest they all cheated. What they did was out-think (or surround themselves with those who could) the rest and then outperform them. Hmmmmmm, is that cheating or competition?
I was actually wondering about this a few days ago, since I like the idea of racing but know nothing about it. Are there any regulations in motorsports?
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Old 08-24-2012, 10:27 PM   #319
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Originally Posted by BobbySands View Post
alright Fred. Don't forget your US Postal Service togs and LiveStrong bracelet.

Do [you] have Lance Armstrong signature model aerobars on that thing?


I'm sorry, but that's actually pretty good!

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Old 08-25-2012, 12:20 AM   #320
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You know what, the rest of the world and I am fine with that. I adored LeMond and I screamed for Boyer before him and Irishman Sean Kelly and Australian Phil Anderson. Bob Roll, etc. in between.

Lance couldn't polish King Kelly's shoes. He turned a wonderful racing season of one day classics and major tours and Criteriums into a one-race circus with a lot of 'training' races.

Het Volk, win Pair-Tours, Liege-Bastogne-Liege or the Vuelta or Amstel Gold?

Lance ever win Ghent-Wevelgem? No. George Hincapie did, though. Eddy Merckx did 3 times. So did Sean Kelly. So did Freddy Maetens.

How about the Amstel Gold. Merckx won twice, Jan Raas won five time, 4 in a row. Lets not forget about Freddy Maertens.

Lance did win Fleche Wallone, the race that Merckx also won twice.

But Lance isn't fit to wipe Hinault's bottom, either.

There are loads of fantastic racers from other parts of the world and some very good Americans without the attitude and hubris of Armstrong, who, in 10 years time, will be only a footnote with an asterik.
None of which has a thing to do with whether there is sufficient evidence to take away his titles. You're just prattling on. I think your last sentence fairly well sums up your position: you don't like his attitude and hubris, which means he was doping.
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Old 08-25-2012, 03:03 AM   #321
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Originally Posted by RTLover View Post
None of which has a thing to do with whether there is sufficient evidence to take away his titles. You're just prattling on. I think your last sentence fairly well sums up your position: you don't like his attitude and hubris, which means he was doping.
1. please read thread before commenting. Start with post #202 and pay particular attention to the last paragraph.
i'll help: http://advrider.com/forums/showpost....&postcount=202

2. keep reading until you hit post
read the article or withhold any further comment http://advrider.com/forums/showpost....&postcount=312

3. realise that I meant what I said in that post but you've missed the seminal parts I posted earlier.

4. apology accepted.
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Old 08-25-2012, 03:11 AM   #322
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Originally Posted by shrineclown View Post
He's a Flyers fan, 'nuff said. Just smile, nod and keep on moving until you can't hear any longer. The last player in the NHL to don a helmet ,under extreme duress, was a Flyer. It goes with the territory. FWIW, they actually can be dropped on their heads without causing further damage or injury. Don't feel insulted, that may actually have been a compliment.

BTW, if you are old enough, LeMond was the first American to bring sunlight to cycling in the US. Had he not taken a scattergun to the back, he may have been a bigger influence. Big if. However, his back stabbing has caused me to lose my enamor of him.

So we are to believe that Hinault won his five on pure unadulterated talent. Shoe shines, haircuts, and butt wipes aside; Lance Armstrong could not have won his seven without being a doper? Without a positive test, nonetheless? Just because we think he mighta, coulda, shoulda?

The tour is won in one of the most physical, mental and persevering chess matches possible. It is full of danger, obstacles man-made or natural and potential miscalculations. So even if you did dope, that would not be enough to win in and of itself.

Who is next Kenny Roberts, Wayne Rainey, Eddie Lawson, Mario Andretti, Richard Petty? Who would we like to demonize next to further some scumbag lawyers sense of duty? I am sure you could find some after the fact revelation to suggest they all cheated. What they did was out-think (or surround themselves with those who could) the rest and then outperform them. Hmmmmmm, is that cheating or competition?
See post 202 as well.

in 1984 I spent the summer riding by myself, looking at a poster of Lemond in a white World Championship jersey riding a Gitane.
You?

Funny you should mention it because inbetween pints last night we all agreed that were Lance more like Greg (humble, speaking the language, racing all the races instead of only the Tour, etc etc) this witch hunt probably would not have happened.)

P.S. this has everything to do with cycling-- which has been ravaged by doping-- and sweet fuck-all to do with NASCAR and why you'd try to draw some connexion escapes me.
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Old 08-25-2012, 03:13 AM   #323
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I'm sorry, but that's actually pretty good!


Just a little piss taking. We're all friends here.
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Old 08-25-2012, 04:13 AM   #324
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Originally Posted by BobbySands View Post
Article above. Read it. Unless you believe, like Paul, that every drug testing body on every continent were set out to strip Lance of his titles.
What is the statute of limitations that USADA has imposed upon itself?
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Old 08-25-2012, 04:37 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by BobbySands View Post
1. please read thread before commenting. Start with post #202 and pay particular attention to the last paragraph.
i'll help: http://advrider.com/forums/showpost....&postcount=202

2. keep reading until you hit post
read the article or withhold any further comment http://advrider.com/forums/showpost....&postcount=312

3. realise that I meant what I said in that post but you've missed the seminal parts I posted earlier.

4. apology accepted.
Then there is always the other side of the story.

In October 2005, in response to calls from the International Olympic Committee and the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) for an independent investigation, the UCI appointed Dutch lawyer Emile Vrijman to investigate the handling of urine tests by the French national anti-doping laboratory, LNDD. Vrijman was head of the Dutch anti-doping agency for ten years; since then he has worked as a defense attorney defending high-profile athletes against doping charges.[101] Vrijman's report cleared Armstrong because of improper handling and testing.[102][103] The report said tests on urine samples were conducted improperly and fell so short of scientific standards that it was "completely irresponsible" to suggest they "constitute evidence of anything."[104] The recommendation of the commission's report was no disciplinary action against any rider on the basis of LNDD research. It also called upon the WADA and LNDD to submit themselves to an investigation by an outside independent authority.[105] The WADA rejected these conclusions stating "The Vrijman report is so lacking in professionalism and objectivity that it borders on farcical."[106] The IOC Ethics Commission subsequently censured Dick Pound, the President of WADA and a member of the IOC, for his statements in the media that suggested wrongdoing by Armstrong.
In April 2009, Dr. Michael Ashenden said that "the LNDD absolutely had no way of knowing athlete identity from the sample they're given. They have a number on them, but that's never linked to an athlete's name. The only group that had both the number and the athlete's name is the federation, in this case it was the UCI." He added "There was only two conceivable ways that synthetic EPO could've gotten into those samples. One, is that Lance Armstrong used EPO during the '99 Tour. The other way it could've got in the urine was if, as Lance Armstrong seems to believe, the laboratory spiked those samples. Now, that's an extraordinary claim, and there's never ever been any evidence the laboratory has ever spiked an athlete's sample, even during the Cold War, where you would've thought there was a real political motive to frame an athlete from a different country. There's never been any suggestion that it happened."[107]
Dr. Michael Ashenden's statements are at odds with the findings of the Vrijman report. "According to Mr. Ressiot, the manner in which the LNDD had structured the results table of its report i.e. listing the sequence of each of the batches, as well as the exact number of urine samples per batch, in the same (chronological) order as the stages of the 1999 Tour de France they were collected at was already sufficient to allow him to determine the exact stage these urine samples referred to and subsequently the identity of the riders who were tested at that stage." The Vrijman report also says "Le Monde of July 21 and 23, 1999 reveal that the press knew the contents of original doping forms of the 1999 Tour de France".[
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Old 08-25-2012, 05:33 AM   #326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbySands View Post
1. please read thread before commenting. Start with post #202 and pay particular attention to the last paragraph.
i'll help: http://advrider.com/forums/showpost....&postcount=202

2. keep reading until you hit post
read the article or withhold any further comment http://advrider.com/forums/showpost....&postcount=312

3. realise that I meant what I said in that post but you've missed the seminal parts I posted earlier.

4. apology accepted.
I've read them all.

My response to you was that you're blasting him because so-and-so racer did thus-and-so. What does that have to do with the charges of doping? 'Lance's only claim to fame is the Tour.' If this is material to the issue of his ALLEGED doping you're going to have to tell me why and how. For all your narrative, there is still no unequivocal proof. Look for an apology elsewhere. I stand by my comments and my position that guilt doesn't flow naturally from refusing to respond. It's up to a trier of the fact to find objective evidence, with or without the person charged.
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Old 08-25-2012, 06:12 AM   #327
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You know what, the rest of the world and I am fine with that.

- in 10 years time, will be only a footnote with an asterik.
You expose a pretty deep bias there sport.

I wasn't implying that it is important to anyone else that cycling in America isn't obscure- I was saying that the guy opened your sport to a much larger audience. Much larger audiences generally help sports move along, no?

As far as LA being a footnote in 10 years...

mmmmmmmmm......no. That is silly.

For some reason there is little worse than a cycle snob......
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Old 08-25-2012, 06:16 AM   #328
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You expose a pretty deep bias there sport.

I wasn't implying that it is important to anyone else that cycling in America isn't obscure- I was saying that the guy opened your sport to a much larger audience. Much larger audiences generally help sports move along, no?

As far as LA being a footnote in 10 years...

mmmmmmmmm......no. That is silly.

For some reason there is little worse than a cycle snob......

That's inarguable.
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Old 08-25-2012, 06:19 AM   #329
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What is the statute of limitations that USADA has imposed upon itself?
8 years, unless you are trying to hang Lance Armstrong.
If so you can go back as far as you need to.
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Old 08-25-2012, 09:21 AM   #330
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Since i have a Lance tattoo, will i be banned too?
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