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Old 10-10-2012, 08:36 PM   #466
_cy_
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Originally Posted by mrt10x View Post
who cares if they made a deal.. they were all cheats.. the entire peloton was full of cheats.. the fact that they made deals doesnt mean the cheating didnt happen.
OK .. I'll go for that .. but it does mean ALL the testimony is possibly tainted. NO matter how much crap is dug out ... one lb or 1,000lbs it's still crap if it's tainted.

as a matter of fact, what I'm most insulted about is the waste of our tax payer $$$ being spent on crap that happen over 12 years ago in another country.

40 million dollars wasted by the justice department and no telling how many millions wasted by USADA trying to justify their existence. all over crap that happen 12 years ago by a retired athlete.

why didn't USADA raise an objection then? how is it anywhere close to fair to drag it up now 12+ years later ...after someone is retired? on top of using a different standard of evidence as proof where hard evidence is not needed .... someone tell me how is this fair to anyone?

who gives a f##K? now we are getting it all over the news....

_cy_ screwed with this post 10-10-2012 at 08:41 PM
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:39 PM   #467
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Of course they are going to make a deal for testimony. That is the way it works... Lance was running a Mafia like ship where if you didn't dope you were off the team. When you did dope you were coopted and your silence was delivered. Read the reasoned decision and then cry for lance. But by then I think you will think of lance as a pos, like sandusky who is just as delusional as lance. Those on the lance bandwagon will look delusional soon enough to the general public.

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Old 10-10-2012, 08:45 PM   #468
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Originally Posted by _cy_ View Post
.

why didn't USADA raise an objection then? ....
I don't think USADA was around then.

conversation on espn radio of Tygart, LA lawyer and two others.

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=8487101
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:53 AM   #469
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I would not call it cheating to allow a promising junior to ride with the seniors for training. Lemond did this all the time.


Gee, Greg has been pretty quiet lately, someone kidnap him?


Greg Lemond

Is he again the greatest US cyclist?

I wouldn't really call it cheating either, but does it say something about a culture of entitlement? Dad lobbying for special treatment?

I think it's interesting that Hincapie stopped doping when Armstrong initially retired in 06. After reading Tyler's (somewhat self serving) book, it looks like Armstrong was turning screws on everyone to get on his program.

Tyler also claims he was busted because LA turned him in.
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:02 AM   #470
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don't think any less of Hincapie for testifying. he probably was facing getting same treatment as Lance. which included possible jail time, losing all titles/winnings, etc, etc.

look at how Hincapie was allowed to finish season, then retire gracefully without interference before anything came out. Now let's see if Hincapie will lose all titles/winnings back 8 years or more like Lance?

normally ALL riders under sanctions are directed by USADA to UCI for immediate suspension. Have you seen that happen to ANY rider that testified against Lance?

Still think no threats and/or deals made by USADA to get those testimonies?

this reminds me of jailhouse snitches who testifies against someone who gets convicted for murder. then years later recants testimony and/or new DNA evidence exonerates convicted inmate on death row. this has happened over and over again....
I haven't heard anything about a claim on LA's winnings.

As for Hincapie, what titles? He won a tour stage and USA Pro Champs once or twice, outside of that I'm pretty sure he's only good for minor placings. Maybe he won a semi classic or two but who really cares or remembers? He's going to walk away with a global cycling brand, not a bad reward for a bunch of cheating and lying and breaking the law.

At least some riders testified without being subpoenaed. I wonder how the USADA threatened and coerced them?

Source on the jailhouse snitches? I haven't really heard of that.
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:29 AM   #471
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As for Hincapie, what titles? He won a tour stage and USA Pro Champs once or twice, outside of that I'm pretty sure he's only good for minor placings. Maybe he won a semi classic or two but who really cares or remembers? He's going to walk away with a global cycling brand, not a bad reward for a bunch of cheating and lying and breaking the law.

.
That tour stage win looked semi-ridiculous at the time but of course it all makes sense now. Hincapie had great longevity but without doping he'd have been very average.
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:53 AM   #472
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That tour stage win looked semi-ridiculous at the time but of course it all makes sense now. Hincapie had great longevity but without doping he'd have been very average.
I think if they were all not doping, everybody would have been average, the stars would have been the stars no matter what, but they would have had more ups and downs.

More bad stages (like Hinault in 86 Tour) more heroic attempts to make up time lost because they were down (Hinault, 86 Tour), and more daring attempts at victory at all costs, via daredevil descents and seemingly doomed breakaways.

I loved the way Lemond chased Chiapucci after Chiapucci attacked when Lemond got a flat while in yellow. 1990. Classic.
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:43 AM   #473
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What a classy guy. Anyone want their kid to admire LA?

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/...idation_256702
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:14 PM   #474
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Tilford's take...

Steve Tilford ... telling it like it is

http://stevetilford.com/

"
I say sorry. You guys are all rich. Very rich. Very rich compared to Americans and beyond extremely rich compared to the rest of the world. You get to walk away with all the money that you stole from friends of mine. You get to remember the life experiences that you experienced that others should have as their life experiences. You can’t give that back.
Now, all of a sudden, or maybe I should say, for some explained reason, 6 years ago, most of you decided to be moral. If you all are so moral, then maybe you should use those very morals and stop racing. You guys had your chances. You seemed to make the most of it. You have all the spoils. Just fade away and do something else. It seems like the right thing to do. "
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:00 PM   #475
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Steve Tilford ... telling it like it is

http://stevetilford.com/
Thank you for that. Excellent viewpoint from someone who got robbed by these heroes that finally manned up and admitted to doping.

I owe you a cold one should we ever meet up.
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Old 10-12-2012, 04:14 AM   #476
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Whole thing is a total clusterfuck. I am beyond angry and I'm not just so very sad that the sport I love is being torn apart - AGAIN !!

And for those that keep going on about Armstrong never having failed a test (which is incorrect by the way, he has failed a test but got it swept under the carpet), I wonder how many test admitted doper George Hincapie took over the years, none of which, to the best of my knowledge, he failed.
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Old 10-12-2012, 06:38 AM   #477
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Whole thing is a total clusterfuck. I am beyond angry and I'm not just so very sad that the sport I love is being torn apart - AGAIN !!

And for those that keep going on about Armstrong never having failed a test (which is incorrect by the way, he has failed a test but got it swept under the carpet), I wonder how many test admitted doper George Hincapie took over the years, none of which, to the best of my knowledge, he failed.
see for yourself ... 66 tests administered by USADA to George

http://www.usada.org/athlete-test-history

FWIW, Lance = 29 tests

Kristen Armstrong (the cyclist, not the ex) = 73
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Old 10-12-2012, 07:15 AM   #478
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see for yourself ... 66 tests administered by USADA to George

http://www.usada.org/athlete-test-history

FWIW, Lance = 29 tests

Kristen Armstrong (the cyclist, not the ex) = 73

Interesting note about Kristen Armstrong. I noticed a lack of female names in the USADA Reasoned Judgement - does this imply that the distaff peleton is clean?
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Old 10-12-2012, 07:23 AM   #479
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Interesting note about Kristen Armstrong. I noticed a lack of female names in the USADA Reasoned Judgement - does this imply that the distaff peleton is clean?
I dunno .... not real big money in women's racing, so maybe less inclination to be 'on the program'.

Recall the name Geneviève Jeanson (Canada), who was absolutely crushing everybody else a few years back...I think she got popped for EPO.

Anybody recall track rider Tammy Thomas (below)? Pretty sure she was 'on something' too...

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Shuffler screwed with this post 10-12-2012 at 07:31 AM
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:54 AM   #480
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