ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Gear > The Garage
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-12-2014, 12:53 PM   #16
troidus
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Oddometer: 13,354
Make sure your lug nuts aren't over-torqued.
troidus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2014, 01:19 PM   #17
gmiguy
You rode a what to where?
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Western NC
Oddometer: 1,226
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelJM1 View Post
Ive had nothing but problems with my subie brakes. OEM ones sharted to shudder, got new replacement ones (i forgot what brand but they were'nt exactly cheap) and good pads that make a lot of goddamn dust. 1000 miles later, the shudder began again. Cut the OEM rotors problem solved... for 1000 miles.

I'm so goddamn tired of shitty quality parts.
Are you sure it's a parts issue?

Is the specific make/model known for warping rotors? If not, repeat failures across multiple quality parts from different vendors is a good indicator of something being wrong with the system or application.
gmiguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2014, 08:24 PM   #18
Motornoggin
Two-Bit Throttle Bum
 
Motornoggin's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Lightning Bugs, High Plains Chapter
Oddometer: 20,996
Quote:
Originally Posted by concours View Post
Never said they WEREN'T Chinese, the "premium" just a small step up the garbage ladder, quality wise. That was/is my point, HARD for the repair shop to source any quality parts. The Meyle rotors I get for the veedub are German made, great quality/longevity. (3 MKIV's, 500,000 220,000 and 190,000 miles.)
That was my point as well. Regardless of advertising hype, it's difficult to get any consumable parts these days that aren't made in China. Even the "premium" versions often aren't all that good. Depending on the vehicle, there may be no choice at all, no matter what you're prepared to spend.

In the mean time, there are steps that can help mitigate the issues associated with "warped" rotors and bad pads.
__________________
O.K. Joke's over. You can bring back the constitution now. Please.

My Wyoming has an East infection.

http://motornoggin.smugmug.com
Motornoggin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2014, 08:59 PM   #19
P B G
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Greater Chicago
Oddometer: 10,001
Things to be aware of -

Ceramic vs Semi-metallic

Ceramics make less dust - tend to have less stopping force - lower noise.

Semi-metallic tend to have lowest overall service cost for a pad.

I've had OK luck with rotors from NAPA - but I like textar brake pads over NAPA. Again talking a home mechanic brake job on a daily driver.


I do actually currently have a set of NAPA ceramics on my car - for dust issues - and due to the fact that my NAPA guy owed me a set of pads on warranty.
P B G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2014, 12:59 AM   #20
SteelJM1
Undercover KTM rider
 
SteelJM1's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Tucson
Oddometer: 1,638
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmiguy View Post
Are you sure it's a parts issue?

Is the specific make/model known for warping rotors? If not, repeat failures across multiple quality parts from different vendors is a good indicator of something being wrong with the system or application.
Im unaware of front brake problems with this model. I always use a torque wrench and make sude my caliper slides are greased and moving freely. I also clean the hell out of the rotors with brake cleaner to remove the storage oil. I dont know what else to do, aside from ordering a different brand next time. Perhaps ill try bendix parts.

Sent from my Tandy 1000 mobile using DOS
SteelJM1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2014, 10:24 AM   #21
ohgood
Beastly Adventurer
 
ohgood's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: alabama
Oddometer: 2,510
Quote:
Originally Posted by concours View Post
Glad you asked... The cosmoline will begin to wear off... unevenly. Then the pads will be doing the slide-grab-slide-grab, unevenly. The "grab" portions of the rotor will heat, while the "slide" portions will not... thus begins the madness.
i'm not saying you're wrong, but


it seems very odd that RUST will wipe right off with one or two applications driving around the block but cosmoline will not ?

i've had axle grease on my rotors before from a wheel bearing change (accidents happen) that i didn't realize. it actually made it's way all the way around the rotor, filled all the holes evenly, and only made the brakes less usable. after i realized that mistake, a pressure washer (to blast out the holes) and then brake cleaner was the fix. i can't imagine a car's rotors, with so much more material, would warp from a thin coat of cosmoline.

but, i'm wrong

a lot
__________________
scrolling through the words to get to the pictures is cool, but i'm really just here for the tracks and waypoints... post some ok ?
ohgood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2014, 12:39 PM   #22
jachard
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: NYC, CT
Oddometer: 603
Are you guys bedding in your rotors/pads correctly? Many times a symptom of "warping" is just bad brake pad material transfer to the new rotors. New rotor/pad procedure should be as follows:

Installation:
1. Rotor surfaces should be THOROUGHLY cleaned prior to install.
2. Hub mating surface should be cleaned with a wire wheel prior to install.
3. Wheel lug nuts should be properly torqued, using a torque wrench, not an air gun.

Bed In on the Road:
1. Perform 3 runs from ~30MPH to 10MPH with each run gradually increasing brake pressure.
2. Repeat above procedure using 60MPH down to 20MPH.
3. Drive around after so as to allow the brake components to cool back down.

I've followed this procedure and never had any issues on all of my vehicles( race cars, bikes, trucks etc.)

Cheers, James
__________________
2005 640e
2012 R1200GS Rallye
1993 Porsche 964 RS

http://octaneworks.wordpress.com/
jachard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2014, 02:40 PM   #23
Matt fe2o3 OP
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2011
Oddometer: 559
Well as an update to my 4Runner, the replacement rotors seem spot on. A few days or driving around and they fell exactly like they should be.

I was also surprised that the rotors "warped" in such little time due to the coating left on?, certainly as another poster pointed out that to the point of hitting the guards did not add up.

I did look at the rotors that came off and there did seem to be some dark areas on the right rotor, but nothing that indicated "oh wow".

So whatever was done, it has been undone and the brakes seem fine. Perhaps he put the pads in backwards.... or one dropped down put of position. Somewhere here on ADV there is a picture of exactly that (backwards).... Good grief.

Anyway I guess I chalk one up to the "I dunno God" and keep monitoring.
Matt fe2o3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2014, 08:01 PM   #24
concours
WFO for 41 years
 
concours's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Kensington, NH USA
Oddometer: 5,371
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohgood View Post
i'm not saying you're wrong, but


it seems very odd that RUST will wipe right off with one or two applications driving around the block but cosmoline will not ?

i've had axle grease on my rotors before from a wheel bearing change (accidents happen) that i didn't realize. it actually made it's way all the way around the rotor, filled all the holes evenly, and only made the brakes less usable. after i realized that mistake, a pressure washer (to blast out the holes) and then brake cleaner was the fix. i can't imagine a car's rotors, with so much more material, would warp from a thin coat of cosmoline.

but, i'm wrong

a lot
Come North to the rust belt... where we replace rotors TWICE as frequently as the sunny South. The Iron oxide, which is much harder than any of the host materials destroys rotors. The creeping rust causes "thunder" (noise/vibration/pulsation) without EVER having an overheating event, etc.
So, yes, the light dusting of rust from a rain polishes right off... but it doesn't stop there.
__________________
Too much is just barely enough.....
concours is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2014, 08:04 PM   #25
concours
WFO for 41 years
 
concours's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Kensington, NH USA
Oddometer: 5,371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motornoggin View Post
That was my point as well. Regardless of advertising hype, it's difficult to get any consumable parts these days that aren't made in China. Even the "premium" versions often aren't all that good. Depending on the vehicle, there may be no choice at all, no matter what you're prepared to spend.

In the mean time, there are steps that can help mitigate the issues associated with "warped" rotors and bad pads.

NAPA calls it "premium" to differentiate between the horrid shit price leader meant to compete with AutoDrone $20 rotors, or so my local Napa store manager explained. I'm not a big NAPA fan, but reference them due to widespread availability/familiarity.
__________________
Too much is just barely enough.....
concours is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2014, 08:23 PM   #26
gmiguy
You rode a what to where?
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Western NC
Oddometer: 1,226
From a friend who has 10+ years experience with the fundamental design, failure analysis, and testing of automotive disc brakes:

"The rotor metallurgy and dimensional control on el-cheapo rotors is fine for daily drivers. Rotor warping on a street-driven vehicle is almost certainly not a parts-quality issue. Proper lug torque and bed-in is essential."

I know that he and his similarly experienced co-workers all run cheap Chinese rotors on their street cars, and treat upgraded street car rotors as little more than a punchline.
gmiguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2014, 03:51 AM   #27
ohgood
Beastly Adventurer
 
ohgood's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: alabama
Oddometer: 2,510
Quote:
Originally Posted by concours View Post
Come North to the rust belt... where we replace rotors TWICE as frequently as the sunny South. The Iron oxide, which is much harder than any of the host materials destroys rotors. The creeping rust causes "thunder" (noise/vibration/pulsation) without EVER having an overheating event, etc.
So, yes, the light dusting of rust from a rain polishes right off... but it doesn't stop there.
I'll trust your rust is a more frequent replacement if worn rotors, but how does it warp them ?

and the cosmoline bit ?
__________________
scrolling through the words to get to the pictures is cool, but i'm really just here for the tracks and waypoints... post some ok ?
ohgood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2014, 09:45 AM   #28
concours
WFO for 41 years
 
concours's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Kensington, NH USA
Oddometer: 5,371
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohgood View Post
I'll trust your rust is a more frequent replacement if worn rotors, but how does it warp them ?

and the cosmoline bit ?
It's uneven, and the friction coefficient is less than the iron, so the slip/grab scenario again, resulting in uneven heating/wear. This is hard core rust, well adhered, not just the light orange dusting from rain. It's black, usually worse on the back (tin shield) side. If a car is short tripped in the winter, it's not uncommon to have to shatcan rotors 2yo, with 10K miles.
__________________
Too much is just barely enough.....
concours is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2014, 10:18 AM   #29
H96669
A proud pragmatist.
 
H96669's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Hiding off Hwy 6, B.C.
Oddometer: 4,504
Lets see....GM POS rotors, failed from corrosion at less than 10,000 miles?? I am up to my third pair of fronts and I should do the rear soon.

The first time I went to the GM dealer and they turned them/installed new pads. Under some sort of warranty/good faith from them they don't usually cover corrosion issues.

In any case they wouldn't install new rotors. They warped shortly after, I couldnt fix it myself from lack of time and not wanting to do that outside in the winter so I kept driving in the salt.

Less than 10,000 miles later they looked like that, good old "Pig Iron".



I am trying something with the new pair of cheap chinese I just installed, may or may not extend their life. I'll know for sure in a year or so.
__________________
Have tools, will travel!
H96669 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2014, 03:50 PM   #30
concours
WFO for 41 years
 
concours's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Kensington, NH USA
Oddometer: 5,371
Quote:
Originally Posted by H96669 View Post
Lets see....GM POS rotors, failed from corrosion at less than 10,000 miles?? I am up to my third pair of fronts and I should do the rear soon.

The first time I went to the GM dealer and they turned them/installed new pads. Under some sort of warranty/good faith from them they don't usually cover corrosion issues.

In any case they wouldn't install new rotors. They warped shortly after, I couldnt fix it myself from lack of time and not wanting to do that outside in the winter so I kept driving in the salt.

Less than 10,000 miles later they looked like that, good old "Pig Iron".



I am trying something with the new pair of cheap chinese I just installed, may or may not extend their life. I'll know for sure in a year or so.
Thanks for posting the images of crusty rotors... hard to imagine for those not in the salt belt.
__________________
Too much is just barely enough.....
concours is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 02:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014