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Old 02-01-2006, 09:16 PM   #76
BMWzenrider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockt
Hey Karl, thanks for the info. Is that a rubber mount I see for the rec./reg.? If not, I wonder if that would be a good idea.
The mount is a 6mm "Rod Coupler Nut" Basically just a really really thick 6mm nut to replace the one holding the battery box to the stock rubber mount.
Down at the bottom is a 1" diameter clamp with a small angle bracket. The only thing that shows once the side cover is back on is the rubber covered clamp strap just below the cover.

I don't think that rubber mounting the Regulator/Rectifier is needed at all. It is all solid-state and fully potted.

The Coupler nut is the second generation mounting concept in that area, if you can't find a metric Coupler Nut you can just put an extra bend in a second 1-1/2" angle bracket to make a Z-bracket like this....
(if you have the old battery mounts with two short threads, it would be better to buy a new one with one long threaded side to give more grip length.)
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Old 02-01-2006, 09:24 PM   #77
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BTW - Here is what I was talking about for tapping into power at the coils on dual-coil models.

The red wire runs back to the Rectifier/Regulator, and as you can see there is actually a blank male terminal on the coil where the Green w/Blue stripe wire attaches.
Nice handy access to switched power!

(the hardware cloth over the air intake horns is to keep critters from nesting in my air cleaner...)
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Old 02-02-2006, 07:46 AM   #78
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Thumb Mice's!

Good idea on the hardware cloth. I once found a ton of dry dog food stashed in my air cleaner housing on one of my bikes.
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Old 02-02-2006, 10:29 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHoof
Good idea on the hardware cloth. I once found a ton of dry dog food stashed in my air cleaner housing on one of my bikes.
Mine was stuffed with wadded paper toweling and the buggers had started chewing on the filter element to make more nesting material!

On top of the cleaner housing you can see my first pass at a power distribution panel for all the extra lights and everything else on the bike...
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Old 02-02-2006, 10:32 AM   #80
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Just another view showing how you pinch the material together in the middle and hold it all on with some zip-ties...

(So, how does one embed photos in the text like the others seem to be able to do? I know... newbee question... )
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Old 02-02-2006, 10:38 AM   #81
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The best thing to get mice away from your bike when you store it is to stuff all the orifices with washing machine dryer sheet, the smelly things that supposedly make your laundry smell well. Mice seem to hate it. I tried it for 2 years on my RT and it worked just fine.
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Old 02-02-2006, 07:32 PM   #82
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STORE?!?!? Sorry... that is a foreign concept to me. Even up here in Wisconsin I am a full-time "Rounder". I ride all year, any weather, any temp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malindi
The best thing to get mice away from your bike when you store it is to stuff all the orifices with washing machine dryer sheet,
That is why I needed the extra power of the EnDuraLast charging system. {Like how I segued back to the topic of this thread...}

I run extra lights on the rig, as well as electrics for the cooler rides. (Below 20-degrees F I need to turn on the heated grips) The new girlfriend has also stolen my 'lectric vest and plugs in when she rides with me.

We went out today for lunch. Was a very nice day, all the way up near 40 degrees!
Was running three 55watt headlamps, have a 20watt halogen bulb in the running lamp position, two 5watt taillights, instrument lights, eyebrow light on the RT, etc. So besides the current loads of running the engine I had at least 200watts of lighting running.

When she had the vest switched off the dash voltmeter was showing 13.5 volts @ 3250 rpm.
With the vest on (~45watts) it dropped to 12.7 volts @ 3500 rpm.

Not bad...
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Old 02-02-2006, 10:58 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWzenrider
STORE?!?!? Sorry... that is a foreign concept to me. Even up here in Wisconsin I am a full-time "Rounder". I ride all year, any weather, any temp.

%%% It might not be a foreign concept when you pay around $1,000 in liability insurance on a bike. I had another bike insured at the time, and a car. I figured $2,500 in insurance for vehicles was enough for one peron.



That is why I needed the extra power of the EnDuraLast charging system. {Like how I segued back to the topic of this thread...}

I run extra lights on the rig, as well as electrics for the cooler rides. (Below 20-degrees F I need to turn on the heated grips) The new girlfriend has also stolen my 'lectric vest and plugs in when she rides with me.

We went out today for lunch. Was a very nice day, all the way up near 40 degrees!
Was running three 55watt headlamps, have a 20watt halogen bulb in the running lamp position, two 5watt taillights, instrument lights, eyebrow light on the RT, etc. So besides the current loads of running the engine I had at least 200watts of lighting running.

When she had the vest switched off the dash voltmeter was showing 13.5 volts @ 3250 rpm.
With the vest on (~45watts) it dropped to 12.7 volts @ 3500 rpm.

Not bad...
Glad it works well. Any idea on the mileage you put on that setup the last while?
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Old 02-08-2006, 12:09 AM   #84
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I just removed my Enduralast from my RT and will move it to the G/S this weekend most likely. No noticeable wear on anything. Someone mentioned wires could discolor on high-output coil setups, but I found no visible evidence of that.
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Old 02-23-2006, 11:48 AM   #85
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Update: I just moved the stuff over to the G/S. See link: http://tinyurl.com/bncde for links to small AND full-size pics

Or below:

Feb 23, 2006

Trip preparations have kept me from playing any further with the setup above until yesterday. I received a spare rectifier from John at Eurmoto 3 weeks ago. Argh ... it was tax time, but I found a break yesterday and spent copious amounts of time wiring things up. The pics below link to the unadulterated full-size ones, but they are around 2MB each, so you are warned.



As you can see above, the install is complete. You are looking at the left of the bike (R80G/S). A few things still need to be taken care of, such as shrink tubing over a few connectors and protective cable sheathing, both of which I ran out of towards the end of the day. I opted to cut off all the connectors to the rectifiers and replace them with SAE 10 gauge two-prong plugs, as seen in the lower left of the picture, although this one is auxiliary power for an air compressor/electric vest. Maybe overkill, but this allowed me to configure the spare rectifier the same way, so that in case I needed it, it would be much simpler to replace.

The backing plate was measured to fit the battery and sits inside the battery tray at the bottom. At the back, I have 2 counter-sunk screws to avoid contact with the battery case and for security I added 2 strips of bicycle inner tube as vibration buffer. Again overkill as the battery case is rubber mounted. The battery straps hold the battery in place just fine and there's a tad more tension due to the plate, but not much. The fender is the closest thing to the rectifier, but there's about 3 mm of room in between. A perfect spot for the rectifier.

Here's a second view from the left side:



Here's a view from the top. The red wire is an extra ground. I attached a ground cable (4 gauge) to the tranny as well.



And a view of the battery negative.

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Old 02-25-2006, 11:19 AM   #86
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Kevin,
Looks like an excellent installation on the Rectifier/Regulator! The plate will also provide additional heat sink for the unit. It looks like the rubber provides a slight air gap between the plate and the battery, which is good, because heat can kill a battery, you don’t want the battery being your heat sink!

However, it looks like you use open crimped butt splices to attach your quick disconnect plugs. For your adventure I might recommend at least fill them with dielectric grease and seal them against moisture. Too late to put heat shrink tubing on at this point, what I would recommend if you leave the butt connectors on is getting some silicone fusion tape. When stretched and wrapped over a wire it actually fuses together sealing out water, and preventing it from unwrapping. Regular electrical tape WILL eventually let go as the adhesive ages…

What I would REALLY recommend is going to the Posi-Lock connectors as shown in the current version of the instructions. You can get fully immersion tested waterproof versions if you are really anal, but the standard ones are more than adequate for splashproof and minor dunks. They hold the wire tightly and will not loosen under vibrations, do not have the stress riser cracking problem that can occur with soldered joints, and are completely reusable so that you can swap components in the field and still have the same great mechanical/electrical connection properties.
I carry around a spool of wire and a small selection of sizes with me in my tool kit for repairs (usually helping others at rallies and such). They work great!
http://www.posi-lock.com/index.html


I see from your photos the 4-gauge wire you are talking about and see it connects to the same transmission bolt as the stock battery ground strap, where is the other end connected?

All of the positive current that is flowing thru the red wires to the battery is also flowing thru the case of the rec/reg to ground. That is why the rec/reg ground wire needs to be at least as heavy as the charging wire. If that 4-gauge is another rec/reg ground, it is probably WAY overkill, but won’t hurt a thing. If you are looking for an additional ground for your battery, I would not use the same bolt as the stock strap. I would find a goodly sized bolt on the frame, clean the paint off of the frame where the ring terminal contacts, and bolt it up there. You want clean shiny metal pressed against clean shiny metal. The mechanical pressure will keep corrosion out, but it is still good to coat with dielectric grease to block out all water. The bolt threads cannot be relied upon to provide adequate electrical connection.

My $.05 worth (inflation, ya know…)

Karl Kugler
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Old 02-26-2006, 01:23 AM   #87
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Kevin,
Looks like an excellent installation on the Rectifier/Regulator! The plate will also provide additional heat sink for the unit. It looks like the rubber provides a slight air gap between the plate and the battery, which is good, because heat can kill a battery, you don’t want the battery being your heat sink!

$$$ Karl, yes, that is true. However, I'll be riding in a lot of hot weather (100 and up), so I doubt the rectifier I going to contribute much to the battery heat. As it is, I've yet to feel any temperature difference between the rectifier and the frame of the bike. I don't run extra load on it, so maybe the rectifier does not have to work as hard. My interest is primarily getting the reliability of the stock solution replaced with something MUCH better.

However, it looks like you use open crimped butt splices to attach your quick disconnect plugs. For your adventure I might recommend at least fill them with dielectric grease and seal them against moisture. Too late to put heat shrink tubing on at this point, what I would recommend if you leave the butt connectors on is getting some silicone fusion tape. When stretched and wrapped over a wire it actually fuses together sealing out water, and preventing it from unwrapping. Regular electrical tape WILL eventually let go as the adhesive ages…

$$$ I know the last few pieces didn't get the right treatment. I ran out of supplies. However, at the end of the day, I wanted it done. I have restocked and am going to rewire some sections and tape them shut. Everything else got the crimp/dieletric/heat shrink treatment.

What I would REALLY recommend is going to the Posi-Lock connectors as shown in the current version of the instructions. You can get fully immersion tested waterproof versions if you are really anal, but the standard ones are more than adequate for splashproof and minor dunks. They hold the wire tightly and will not loosen under vibrations, do not have the stress riser cracking problem that can occur with soldered joints, and are completely reusable so that you can swap components in the field and still have the same great mechanical/electrical connection properties.

$$$ The latter is a good point. However, as with the regular BMW wire harness, nothing is soldered, only crimped. I know people have opinions both ways (crimp versus solder), but if a 30 year old BMW harness keeps working without fail, I think the crimp-camp has the last word. As well, I've used 2-prong SAE connectors for a lot of things (including on boats) and have yet to loose connectivity through one. I'm sure the Posi-Lock connectors are better yet.

I carry around a spool of wire and a small selection of sizes with me in my tool kit for repairs (usually helping others at rallies and such). They work great! http://www.posi-lock.com/index.html

I see from your photos the 4-gauge wire you are talking about and see it connects to the same transmission bolt as the stock battery ground strap, where is the other end connected?

$$$ To the left connection point on the rectifier. Barely noticable from the shot taken from above.

All of the positive current that is flowing thru the red wires to the battery is also flowing thru the case of the rec/reg to ground. That is why the rec/reg ground wire needs to be at least as heavy as the charging wire. If that 4-gauge is another rec/reg ground, it is probably WAY overkill, but won’t hurt a thing.

$$$ Well ... When I installed this thing in the RT, John told me to get a car-sized ground cable, so I did... :-) If it's overkill, then I'll wire up something else less T-Rex sized.

If you are looking for an additional ground for your battery, I would not use the same bolt as the stock strap. I would find a goodly sized bolt on the frame, clean the paint off of the frame where the ring terminal contacts, and bolt it up there. You want clean shiny metal pressed against clean shiny metal. The mechanical pressure will keep corrosion out, but it is still good to coat with dielectric grease to block out all water. The bolt threads cannot be relied upon to provide adequate electrical connection.

$$$ Ok. I might move it, but then again, I might just go with double the positive wiring to the battery and feed it directly to negative.

$$$ I just returned from a 400 mile trip. First big ride after the install. This time the volt meter is wired directly to the battery with a dedicated postive and negative. Voltage reads 14.1-14.2 at all times after about 1300 RPM. High beam does not make a difference. I have yet to hook up a vest etc. On the RT I got 13.9, but there the voltmeter was not a direct feed and that battery (Oddessy) is also 7-8 years old, so that might make a difference too.

Thanks for the input,
Kevin
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Old 02-27-2006, 11:16 AM   #88
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Kevin,
I believe that you are correct about the rec/reg heat dissipation being directly proportional to the load on the system if I understand the operation of the unit. And I agree that for a true adventure tour the solid-state unit should be more trouble free than the diode board soaking in the heat in the front of the engine. Not to mention getting rid of the brushes, and the rotor windings.

Glad to hear that you had already planned to seal up those splices. I think you may have misunderstood some of the second bit tho. I was not advocating soldering. In fact, one of the nice things about the Posi-Lock connectors is that the joints are NOT soldered, so do not have the stress riser cracking problem of some soldered joints. The Posi-Lock connectors created a “threaded crimp” if you will. One that you can open and close to reuse the connectors. Or retorque periodically by hand to ensure that the connections are still tight… The barrel of the connector also helps support the insulation of the wire near the joint to further reduce problems of flexural weakening of the wire at the joint.

And while the SAE connectors are nice for stuff that you open and close more frequently, like accessories, I really think you should reconsider using them for the relatively permanent connections to the rec/reg unit. Think about the total number of joints created using SAE plugs spliced onto another wire. Two crimps at each butt splice, one inside of each molded plug, and one at the interface of the pin & barrel when the plug is connected. We are talking about 7 potential failure locations! The Posi-Lock connector is easily removable without tools and reusable, and only has 2 interfaces to connect each wire together. And those interfaces are pressed together under pressure as well or better than any crimp. And the nylon barrel will handle a lot more heat/amps than the rubber SAE plugs if you have a transient spike in the circuit.

All this is of course just my personal opinion, backed by a few on the road failures over the years of various types of connections – including one melted SAE connector…


The 4-gauge as a ground strap for the rectifier regulator is definitely overkill, but as long as the wire does not put any physical stress/strain on anything, more conductivity is always better… ;) And I would leave it attached to the frame/engine grounding point, not direct to the battery.

I personally try to limit the number of wires that connect directly at the battery for a couple of reasons. One is that adding extra wires to the battery terminals increases the forces on the terminals as the battery vibrates. No matter how well strapped down it is, it will jiggle in there, and adding mass to the terminals is increasing the forces they see, and the potential for case cracking, etc… Second is that I always disconnect at the battery negative terminal itself to ensure complete separation of the battery, and because that transmission bolt is known to be stripped out very easily from repeated removals/torquings. And extra wires is again, extra electrical joints that have to be maintained every time you disconnect. I only have two lugs at the negative post. Dedicated ground leads to the transmission bolt that is a through-bolt behind the right carburetor (that bolt and nut can be replaced if you strip it), and the second going to the frame at the coil mount on the backbone (dual coil model). Grounding to both the frame and engine directly ensures good ground for all harnesses.

Same goes on the positive post. I only have two leads over there, one is the stock harness lug, the second is a short lead to my accessory power distribution panel. Everything else gets positive power off the panel rather than directly from the battery. I even lengthened the harness for the BMW accessory plug that came stock on my bike so that it is no longer connected directly to the battery terminals. My charging wire connects to the main post on the power distribution panel as well, to prevent having to deal with it if the battery is disconnected/removed. Make it as permanent as possible, and make sure it has a healthy coating of dielectric grease! You can see my power distribution panel on top of my air cleaner housing.

Glad to hear it is working so well for you! I have been running on-the-road output tests with mine. Talked the girlfriend into riding in the hack with the voltmeter, ammeter, and a clipboard…
I can definitely load up (or even overload) the system with all the extra driving/fog/sidecar lights and the girlfriend’s dogged insistence on using the heated vest just because it is below 30 degrees out…
If I turn on all of my headlight/driving/fog lights I am pulling 245 watts just for white light to the front!!!
And if that damned cage driver even TRIES to claim they didn’t see me coming…..

Overall, I think you did a great job with your installation. It is just my personal preference that makes me lean towards removing the SAE plugs in favor of the Posi-Locks, but as always, YMMV…

Karl
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Old 04-06-2006, 12:38 AM   #89
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Karl et al,

Just a quick update ... I did some more shielding and covered all the wiring, got rid of the 4 gauge negative and am running 2X10 gauge, so I think I'm covered off. I talked to a number of people as to the failure of SAE plugs and I can't seem to find anyone who thinks it's an issue. As I said earlier, they seem to last for years on boats, a much harsher environment. As well, the number of failure points I think is not so much an issue. Remember that I am running parallel circuits. One SAE plug only serves one original wire, so both poles are the "same". If one pole fails, there is one left to conduct current. Also, if you advocate periodic checking/tightening of the Posi-Locks, then I have to wonder why they are so much better ....

All in all, I put more miles on the bike and all seems well. The voltmeter is there and it shows 14.2 most times. The direct wiring to the battery versus what I had on the RT saved 0.1 or 0.2 volts on the readout. Same reading now at the battery proper.

The bike's sleeping at the airport today ... ready for a crate to be built tomorrow and off it goes. I leave Sunday, so I'll be out of touch for a while...

Kevin
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Old 04-06-2006, 05:59 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malindi
The bike's sleeping at the airport today ... ready for a crate to be built tomorrow and off it goes. I leave Sunday, so I'll be out of touch for a while...
Kevin
You have fun, Kevin! Look us up if you're passing through Melbourne, Australia ...

-----sharks
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