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Old 03-29-2014, 10:49 PM   #1
Wandering Dane OP
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Challenge with Power Commander Install on Tiger 800

I’ve been searching a couple of forums without finding any posts on installation of a Power Commander V on a Triumph Tiger 800.

Regardless, I’m in the process of installing a PC V and a PC AutoTune on my 2012 Tiger Roadie with ABS and now while nearly complete, I’ve run into a baffling problem that I hope the collective may be able to help me solve.

The AutoTune needs a switched power supply; I connected its leads to the leads for the heated grips plug; cut the plug off and connected the wires with a simple connector.

Now the problem: the fuel gauge does not indicate and the ‘check engine’ light is lit.

Connecting an automotive diagnostic instrument only yielded one possible answer: a problem with the O2 sensor heater. The original oxygen sensor is not used with the AutoTune, instead the AutoTune comes with a wide-band oxygen sensor to connect to the AutoTune and a plug for the OEM lead in the wiring harness, see photo below:



What I discovered was that the shunts in this plug were not installed correctly, therefore the make-shift shunts made of safety wire. So just to check, I plugged in the OEM oxygen sensor but the problem remains.

Digging further into the wiring diagram and checking for power, it appears that the problem may be the pink/black wire (identified as KB in the wiring diagram) that connects not only the fuel level sensor to the ECU but also the fall detection switch, the air intake temperature sensor, the throttle potentiometer, the MAP sensor and gear position sensor. However, the engine runs just fine and the gear position indicator works correctly, with or without the OEM O2 sensor plugged in.

Perhaps this KB wire carries CanBus signals as it does not appear to be a power lead?

All the fuses have been checked repeatedly and all work.

I am utterly baffled. Any suggestions?
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Old 03-30-2014, 05:53 PM   #2
Rubberlegs
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you could take off all of the after market "crap"-- sorry, and see if the bike runs normally.
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Old 03-30-2014, 07:59 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Rubberlegs View Post
you could take off all of the after market "crap"-- sorry, and see if the bike runs normally.
The bike runs fine, great even, just some issues that appear to be CanBUS related. Working on an update...
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Old 04-01-2014, 03:51 PM   #4
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Is the PC v made specifically for the 800? I presume it is so can't you contact the maker?

BTW if it works tell us I may want one on my XC...
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Old 04-01-2014, 04:12 PM   #5
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Canbus means BMW. What the Power Commander does, is dial in more fuel to what the stock ECU is recommending. It requires either a lot of time on a Dyno or Auto Tune that recommends more or less fueling based on your riding habit.

There is another way to skin a cat, available only to HD and BMW's. It is called AF-Xied. It is a spoofer for the oxygen sensor. You dial in a AFR and it changes the signal from the oxygen sensor to the ECU that causes it to believe a richer mixture is actually stoich (14.7afr). If your ECU is smart enough, it will adapt this reading in closed loop to other readings in open loop.

They work and are cheaper. If Night Rider thinks there is a market for Triumph, I am sure they will adapt them to other bikes.
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Old 04-01-2014, 09:07 PM   #6
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RAM1000 and itsatdm,

Thanks for your replies.

The particular Power Commander V is made for the Tiger 800. The Autotune, on the other hand, is a more generic version, but didn't present much difficulty to install, mainly just to cut an 18 mm thread in the O2 bung for the wide-band O2 sensor.

itsatdm is correct, there are several companies that manufacture plug-ins that trick the ECU to enrichen the fuel mixture, Motorcycle Consumer News (US) had a recent story about two of these products. And certainly, a plug-in is a much more economical method to richen the fuel mixture than with a Power Commander and an Autotune, although those products do offer a great degree of adjustability.

I had a quite lengthy e-mail correspondence with a European company that has developed plug-ins for Yamahas, BMWs, Triumph Tiger 1050 and is getting ready to release several new products, including for Ducatis. The challenge for this company sounds quite trivial but appears to be serious, namely that the actual hardware, the plugs, are difficult to source. The software, apparently, is relatively simple.

A service rep at DynoJet, the manufacturer of Power Commander, responded very promptly to my e-mail inquiry and was quite helpful. In trying to determine conductivity of the O2 plug insert, as described in my original post, I had failed to consider that the shunts were actually resistors, which changes everything. Upon re-checking, I measured resistance exactly to the values that the service rep stated.

I'm out of town on business and won't be able to work on the bike until the weekend, will get back with any news then.
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:16 PM   #7
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Does the Power Commander do something different than the free TuneECU software does? http://www.tuneecu.com/
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:37 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by shaner1100gs View Post
does the power commander do something different than the free tuneecu software does? http://www.tuneecu.com/
+1
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:54 PM   #9
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I wouldn't buy anything that had a warning like that The answer is yes. One remaps the existing ECU the other piggy backs on the ECU adding or deleting fuel that the stock ECU maps recommend.

I assume the Triumph map is pretty sophisticated, the fuel ratio is probably based on a lot of sensors for the immediate conditions which can change at the crack of the throttle. If typical, it does not have 1 map that fits all conditions. It has a grid of maps, it selects from to match conditions. You would have to remap all of them.
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Old 04-04-2014, 06:41 AM   #10
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I agree, why not just use the OEM Triumph Tune for Arrow Slip ons? You do know that a PC will void the warranty?
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Old 04-04-2014, 10:18 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by shaner1100gs View Post
Does the Power Commander do something different than the free TuneECU software does? http://www.tuneecu.com/
The power commander on its own no, but the autotune yes, and it is worth every penny.
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Old 04-05-2014, 09:09 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Solohobo View Post
I agree, why not just use the OEM Triumph Tune for Arrow Slip ons? You do know that a PC will void the warranty?
The 'Arrow map' adds a great deal of richness over a wide range of RPMs and throttle openings, too much in my opinion. The forums - this and others - have numerous posts of significant decreases in mileage with the Arrow map without corresponding benefits in performance.
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Old 04-05-2014, 05:06 PM   #13
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Update: On the Road Again

Update re the original post: tech support at DynoJet, manufacturer of the Power Commander, was swift and accurate to my inquiry for assistance. Turns out what I thought were shunts (the yellow wires in the OP) in the O2 plug are resistors. When checking resistance, I hadn't considered their high resistance and had set the range on my multi tester at too low range.

So I assembled the bike, filled the fuel tank and went for a ride. The fuel gauge responded within a short distance of the gas station. All is good now, actually much better than good. The bike is running great and it was worth the time and expense to install the Power Commander and the Autotune.

The engine has noticeably more torque at low RPMs and no longer pops in the exhaust on decel. One minor irritant with this bike has always been the difficulty in a smooth take-off from a dead stop, a normal take-off in traffic for example. It's been just a little tricky to achieve the right combination of throttle and clutch engagement. All that is gone now, hard to believe but starting in 2nd gear now is easier than starting in first gear used to be! Low end torque in each gear is improved, no drama rolling along in 6th at 2,000 RPM (about 30 MPH) and smoothly and strongly accelerating. Yes, I'm a happy camper.

However, the stronger bottom end torque and wider power band now makes the close ratio gearbox seem even more inappropriate for this machine and overall, the bike feels under-geared. If things continue as indicated for the first 60 miles of riding, I will drop several teeth off the rear sprocket to reduce highway RPMs and maybe increase milage a bit.
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:28 PM   #14
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WD,

Can you comment on fuel mileage, pre and post PC? One reason I haven't gone with the Arrow tune, is the drop in fuel economy, on what is in my opinion an already spirited bike. I like my 45+ mpg and would consider a PC if the mpg remained similar +/- 1-2 mpg, not the 4-5 I have heard reported due to the arrow tune.

Thanks.
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Old 04-06-2014, 08:30 PM   #15
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WD,

Can you comment on fuel mileage, pre and post PC? One reason I haven't gone with the Arrow tune, is the drop in fuel economy, on what is in my opinion an already spirited bike. I like my 45+ mpg and would consider a PC if the mpg remained similar +/- 1-2 mpg, not the 4-5 I have heard reported due to the arrow tune.

Thanks.
I'll be glad to comment on fuel mileage but in order to give an accurate report, I'll need to accumulate more than the 110 miles that I've covered so far. However, based on the on-board indicator, I am cautiously optimistic that mileage has not decreased. More later...
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