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Old 04-10-2014, 05:57 PM   #16
2feetdown OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSchrauber View Post
I'am following trials since 1979 all in all the stop was latly abused in modern trials as a stop with one foot down was rated with only one point. Trials was esthablished in 1909 as a trial to keep the feet up while going through rough terrain. While riding through the section footing means a penelty (1 - 3) as not to finish (5) or even not to try (10 points), these are the main rules and should not be changed.

The intention and also the accentuation of the dynamic's is completly OK.

It looks very cheap when a rider instead of doing a close turn, try to hop around the corner or try to correct a wrong chosen track by hopping around.

My main criticism of the stop and hop is the possibility of the correction of incorrectly selected tracks, that's what brakes down real trial in the true sense.
I think it was about 1940 when they started penalties for putting your foot down. Next we will be going back to 1909 rules and just ride around and if you finish your a winner and make the sport super easy so grandma can ride.

Lets see trials is suffering especially in the youth ranks and lets take the spectacular out of it use rules that grandpa had with his triumph back 50 years ago that will draw them in.

I too respect vintage people but the day a threw my leg over a 97 montesa the thought of owning a ty or a bultaco forever left me. If there was a vintage event nearby and i had vintage bike and no one to ride modern trials with me i would give it a go but i damn sure wouldnt change the rules and say we need to hop like the modern boys do.

Regulations are not the answer, I can remember 10 years ago the solution to producing a world rider from usa was makem them all ride 125s untill 18 because stupid European laws cant distinguish between a crotch rocket and a trials bike. We could have took some of the money we spend on our bikes and gear and rvs and kicked in a few bucks to help some kid who wasnt too lazy to practice and maybe we would have accomplished something. But then again the deck is stacked against us the FIM makes it about impossible for a usa round so let them do there non stop for a year or two or three until they come to there senses and we will ride American trials and our champions can preform the difficult task of stopping hopping and setting up and we can both have world champions and if one of there guys want to come over here and travel and pay he can be World Champions of non Probationary trials.
I like that word Prohibition we tried it in the twentys and learned are lesson not to impose our ideas on others. We tried non stop before and imposed ideas and here we go again.
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Old 04-10-2014, 06:16 PM   #17
motobene
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Yikes... another level of ambiguity.

I have described no stop as 'pause prohibition', but neither are really accurate. A pause is a stop is a stop of course... (Mr. Ed can make a song of it). The riders are pausing all over the place, and thus stopping. Early last year I saw Raga get 5'd for what those guys were doing all over in the British Championship round.

So it's evolved more accurately to 'bit too much pause prohibition.' Since it's frenetic and happening fast, I'd not want to be the judge.

What'll end up happening, because few people want a big scene, is that unless the pause is really pronounced, they'll let it go. But how much is really pronounced? And it still makes for Frenetic higher-level trials.
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Old 04-10-2014, 06:16 PM   #18
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Rules change all the time. I can understand lobbying for what you think is best, but if they change they change. When the National Enduro rules changed a couple of years ago, some people thought it was the end of the world.

Argue for your point, but are you really going to stop if the rules go back?
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Old 04-10-2014, 06:38 PM   #19
2feetdown OP
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Originally Posted by Rockcat View Post
Rules change all the time. I can understand lobbying for what you think is best, but if they change they change. When the National Enduro rules changed a couple of years ago, some people thought it was the end of the world.

Argue for your point, but are you really going to stop if the rules go back?
If you poll riders here and abroad i think you will find 1/3 prefer no stop 2/3 prefer stopping yet the FIM dictates and the minority wins maybe i can get past that

Limiting skills and practicing that been going on for 20 or more years and just throwing them out the door maybe I can get past that.

Driving 300 miles and losing because some checker(s) gives a clean to a local club rider because he paused and gives a 5 to the guy who drove 300 miles because he stopped (maybe he just made a mistake no way of telling) might be the incentive to stay home and ride enjoying being where everybody gets along and has a good time guess we will see what happens or maybe we wont if we just stick to what works. If no stop works why did it go away so quickly when they tried it before? Could one reason be impossible to score?

2feetdown screwed with this post 04-10-2014 at 06:55 PM
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Old 04-10-2014, 07:08 PM   #20
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Hate to tell you guys, when I scored the world round last year it worked. They have many other rules included besides no-stop. Have you even noticed the indoor rule changes. I know what they are and that`s getting very close to no-stop also. So who here is paying attention.
The very best world round I ever attended was in 1990 Globe AZ. No pussy all day dabs there. Those men could hop them heavy ass bikes all day long without a dab.
Now if you want to try a trials that is cut and dry without any bull try a gate trials. We just tried our first last weekend. It was a blast since we rode in groups. You have to clean a section to get points. High score wins. We just did six sections. The winner had 163 points. We had thirty riders. I think low score(Last) had like 5 points. Our highest point section had 14 pts available. Just think one dab you just lost out on a possible 14 pts. Very tough mentally. I did not take a dab that day!
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Old 04-10-2014, 07:42 PM   #21
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Making judgment calls for no-stop is no different from making judgment calls for stop-allowed. Riding no-stop requires some additional skills that will be a challenge to learn and some may not be up to the challenge. However, the big advantage to no-stop is doing away with time limits in the sections. It keeps things moving along--less time waiting at sections. This will become increasingly more important as our numbers grow when we go to no-stop.
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Old 04-10-2014, 08:48 PM   #22
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I believe this will rip whats left of the sport apart. New sports will most likely emerge from the pile of smoldering stubbornness and anger. So maybe no stop WILL have a dynamic effect after-all.
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Old 04-10-2014, 09:20 PM   #23
jonnyc21
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Sounding more and more like there is going to be a rift with new factions playing it out to see where things end up to me.

Maybe I need to hold out on that new bike for a bit longer and maybe I can get an almost new one for a song when things get all messed up and people dump there bikes and the sport because of the mess...
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Old 04-10-2014, 09:20 PM   #24
LowPSI
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The 44th El Trial de Espana ran the non stop rules this past weekend. 50+ riders. 2 days of fun and competition. No Protests. No Zombies.

How many of you have actually tried it?
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Old 04-10-2014, 09:37 PM   #25
jonnyc21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowPSI View Post
The 44th El Trial de Espana ran the non stop rules this past weekend. 50+ riders. 2 days of fun and competition. No Protests. No Zombies.

How many of you have actually tried it?
I haven't tried it in competition but I did do my best in a few sections at the trials practice aria we have here and I didn't find it nearly as inspiring as with stop.

With that I will re-quote motobene...

Quote:
Originally Posted by motobene View Post
...The riders are pausing all over the place, and thus stopping. Early last year I saw Raga get 5'd for what those guys were doing all over in the British Championship round.
When you see Raga get a 5, then argue about it, for what the British Championship round competitors where doing and they like Toni don't get the 5 its just to impartial... (Yes I know Ragas stop was longer, but not much and to me still a pause)

I know people have there option and I am fine with it, but this is my 2 cents and I am sticking with it...
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Old 04-11-2014, 03:12 AM   #26
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There were already so many try out's in the past to allow a stop:
- stop once,
- stop for three seconds,

it did not work ...

Then in the last years it appeared again now even worse as a stop with a feet down was counted only as one dap.

I stated it already and it was interesting that about this statement I haven't heard any claims yet:

The main task is still to find the right route. The obstacle is just one obstacle of many in a section.

One interesting point to mention is that as the FIM states that the bike manufactures want the no stop regulation too and I haven't read any information of the bike manufacturer that they deny this statement !!!

Your turn
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Old 04-11-2014, 03:23 AM   #27
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Yes - Honda wants it. But try to Find a statement from the others supporting this claim. (your turn) The others will not publicly go against the FIM as they did agree that sales were down - I dont believe it went any further than that, but the politicians turn it into something it wasnt. Typical politics. BTW: The riders DID say they were against it and reprimanded for it.

50 riders at the TDeE is not a super great turnout and huge victory for No stop. There were no arguments or problems because it was scored as a stop allowed event! its total BS to then turn around and claim ns works. The videos of cody clearly show him stopping, but no points given. Thats a great reason NOT to have rules like this - they are very inconsistent from checker to checker, event to event.

laser17 screwed with this post 04-11-2014 at 05:08 AM
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Old 04-11-2014, 05:29 AM   #28
jonnyc21
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Yes - Honda wants it. But try to Find a statement from the others supporting this claim. (your turn) The others will not publicly go against the FIM as they did agree that sales were down - I dont believe it went any further than that, but the politicians turn it into something it wasnt. Typical politics. BTW: The riders DID say they were against it and reprimanded for it.

50 riders at the TDeE is not a super great turnout and huge victory for No stop. There were no arguments or problems because it was scored as a stop allowed event! its total BS to then turn around and claim ns works. The videos of cody clearly show him stopping, but no points given. Thats a great reason NOT to have rules like this - they are very inconsistent from checker to checker, event to event.
+1
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Old 04-11-2014, 06:30 AM   #29
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Heres a video of Cody (on facebook) riding Stop allowed in the supposedly no stop ETdE. How many times does he come to a stop? Nobody can agree on a number, but most agree its more then 0 times. Hell - he even backs up! WTF people!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...type=2&theater


Its not cool to claim this as a great no-stop event when its not scored that way. Lots of money on the line and observers just didnt want to throw the 5. That's fine but not consistent OR how the rules are written. Again - a big reason this can not be endorsed by riders or clubs who want to keep things simple for the checkers. (Im in favor of making them simpler if ANYTHING)

Just look at all the negative comments regarding No Stop on this thread. I dont see NS passing a rider vote in the USA.
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Old 04-11-2014, 06:33 AM   #30
motobene
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Originally Posted by laser17 View Post
Heres a video of Cody (on facebook) riding Stop allowed in the supposedly no stop ETdE. How many times does he come to a stop? Nobody can agree on a number, but most agree its more then 0 times. Hell - he even backs up! WTF people!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...type=2&theater


Its not cool to claim this as a great no-stop event when its not scored that way. Lots of money on the line and observers just didnt want to throw the 5. That's fine but not consistent OR how the rules are written. Again - a big reason this can not be endorsed by riders or clubs who want to keep things simple for the checkers. (Im in favor of making them simpler if ANYTHING)

Just look at all the negative comments regarding stop allowed on this thread. I dont see NS passing a rider vote in the USA.
Well that's one way to protest the rule... just ignore it and go with what works!
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