ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Trials
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-14-2014, 07:28 AM   #16
motobene
Motoing for 43 years
 
Joined: Mar 2013
Location: Wichita Mountains SW Oklahoma
Oddometer: 1,049
Quote:
Originally Posted by prsdrat View Post
As one of, perhaps, 8 or 9 'observers' at the recent Trials de Espana here
in SoCal, I was not impressed with no-stop. I am afraid that
Trials here in the US will never be really popular, because here speed rules.
Absolutely true! Dust, speed, mayhem, chrome, noise, protruding plump tattoo'd body bulges find much resonance in humans. When it comes to speed, the mob likes to watch others risk death, and some of the participants themselves are adrenaline addicts for whom life must be on the edge. Some survive. Some don't. The mob doesn't really care. We 'modern' humans aren't that different than the Romans and their arenas.

Most people that attend speed events are just ordinary, good folks. Heck I even like popping in my ear plugs and spectating in a Harley pagan fest every now and then. Folks all duded up to look bad, but are just ordinary folks looking for a diversion. Perhaps FIM was onto something when they put the blow torch on riders butts? That 'frenetic pace' I described elsewhere may be more of what appeals to the majority? I don't like it, and if I had a choice, a vote, I'd vote no. But if that is all I had, I'd adapt. Whether or not a blow torch will fill in some insufficiency in the sociology of trials is truly debatable.

Trials will never, can never, be 'big. ' It runs a bit contrary to the majority. Those on the outside see murky, weird stuff going on in the inside. This hopefully healthy debate is about what is more exciting to spectators and more satisfying to riders? There is no one spectator or rider, so it's a hard debate.

Perhaps the debate itself is harmful? I think the majority experience debate itself as a negative. As bad juju.. a fart in the room. We don't need to be in fighting camps, and become intractable (think middle east). So what to do? Go along to get along? Say nothing? I'm not at that point yet, but ultimately it's just a tempest in a very small tea pot, and as long as I can ride trials I will.

Thinking positively, all we need to do is attract 0.00000237% of humanity and we'll think we're happening and huge!

motobene screwed with this post 04-14-2014 at 07:58 AM
motobene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2014, 09:40 AM   #17
IndyChizzle
Inspired by Trevor W
 
IndyChizzle's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Indianapolis, IN by Kessler and Michigan Rd.
Oddometer: 734
Quote:
Originally Posted by motobene View Post
Very well thought out and written!

Consider this perspective. There are already Glocks all over the place in the used modern or not-so modern bike market. Used prices have inflated with retail prices, but trials remains an overall low-cost sport with a low 'consumption rate' in machines and equipment, and fuel (unless you travel in an Ultimate Behemoth 43-1/2). One trusted old bike can serve well many years.

80% of my trials bikes have been used. When I look for used, I seek depreciated but not ridden a whole bunch. I improve that machine, then pass it on to others.
As a total newb to Trials, is there something that is common and cheap that would be a good place to start for folks? I was joking with one of my riding buddies that the hardest part to getting started in Trials is going to be learning all the new names (Sherco, Gasgas, etc.) without having an understanding of the quality or price associated with that choice. If there was such a thing as a used "modern" (not twin shock) trials bike that I could buy for $1500, that I knew I could keep running indefinitely, I'd be all set.

The perspective that trials is "low cost" reminds me of this discussion that breaks out fairly often on the gun range.

Q: What do I need to get started in USPSA? I want to shoot fast, like Rob Leatham...
A: Nothing much, just a 1911 by a good manufacturer ($1500-2000), some magazines ($35 x 8), hearing protection ($100), a range bag ($75), and a gunbelt ($150-300).

Q: Ugh. Can I just shoot my $400 Glock and use my carry holster instead? It's already paid for.
A: Yah, that's ok too, but you won't be as competitive.

Q: Sweet. If I like shooting my less-than-ideal gun, I'll think about taking the plunge for something more competition specific.

My point is that even if Trials is "low cost" as compared to some other hobbies, or to some folks' income, anything we can do to make an environment where the entry cost is even lower, will help get young people involved. If folks feel like they have to take the "$2000 plunge" just to give a sport a try, it's going to scare off all but the most certain of individuals. Without a buddy that can loan you gear and help you get started, trials seems like a pretty tall order for new people who just want to get their feet wet to see if they'll like the sport.
__________________
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." John Shedd
2013 Tiger 800 XC
Please register to be an organ donor at www.DonateLife.net . It only takes about 3 minutes!
IndyChizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2014, 10:14 AM   #18
motobene
Motoing for 43 years
 
Joined: Mar 2013
Location: Wichita Mountains SW Oklahoma
Oddometer: 1,049
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyChizzle View Post

...if Trials is "low cost" as compared to some other hobbies, or to some folks' income, anything we can do to make an environment where the entry cost is even lower, will help get young people involved. If folks feel like they have to take the "$2000 plunge" just to give a sport a try, it's going to scare off all but the most certain of individuals. Without a buddy that can loan you gear and help you get started, trials seems like a pretty tall order for new people who just want to get their feet wet to see if they'll like the sport.
Trials people are like vampires around new blood. If they think you are actually interested in trials, they'll come up with a time, place, and bike for you to experience, so you don't have to dive in and buy a new bike.

If they are smart about it, they'll be very careful with you and very strongly urge you to take it slow and easy. This is a hard-to-learn sport that rewards deeply if you get past some initial mental barriers. One is watching a skilled rider make something look so easy and smooth, then trying do the same and bam! You're down and wondering what the heck happened.

And once bit, you'll think , "Hey that nice used Beta, GasGas, Sherco, etc, is only $5,200!" Don't worry about any of them. They are all well designed and amazingly reliable. All parts available, if you ever need them.

What often happens is, once you are bit, that formerly so-precious stuff, like guns or refrigerator-size bikes will suddenly find themselves in neglect and eventually for sale. My riding buddy is a long-term gun guy and has some refrigerator bikes. He's about burned a hole in Craigslist and other venues. I've been surprised when he tells me what people will paid for guns these days. One or two of the arsenal for a modern trials bike? A no brainer And I see a lot of (sold) refrigerator bikes in your signature line!
motobene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2014, 08:14 PM   #19
2feetdown OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2014
Location: missouri
Oddometer: 92
I have heard this show stirred some intrest in trials in the 80's across the pond

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pja9Y7JIJBg
2feetdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2014, 09:19 PM   #20
lamotovita
Ageing Adventurer
 
lamotovita's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: WA/AZ, USA
Oddometer: 1,448
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2feetdown View Post
I have heard this show stirred some intrest in trials in the 80's across the pond

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pja9Y7JIJBg
That's interesting. It appears that, in those days of No Stop Trials, the riders were given credit for stopping on top of a platform.
__________________
Beaten paths are for beaten men.
lamotovita is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 07:53 AM   #21
motobene
Motoing for 43 years
 
Joined: Mar 2013
Location: Wichita Mountains SW Oklahoma
Oddometer: 1,049
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyChizzle View Post
If there was such a thing as a used "modern" (not twin shock) trials bike that I could buy for $1500, that I knew I could keep running indefinitely, I'd be all set.
BTW I'm going to post a very low hours Montesa 314R in the trials for sale thread for a fellow I know in Kansas. Great entry bike.

(Negriff moved it to Craigslist finds).

motobene screwed with this post 04-16-2014 at 02:03 PM
motobene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 01:36 PM   #22
B1
Carbon-based bipedal
 
B1's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Location: Arse-trailer
Oddometer: 3,190
trials is definitely big through europe and the UK so i assume the thread is more about bringing back the sport in the US? things are similar here in australia. it's very underground but our club is keen to make it more mainstream.

on a national level, "come and try trials" days are set up early in the year across the country. the main governing body for competition events provides free insurance for participating clubs. people can come along and watch and have a go on various trials bikes provided by anxious owners... apparently this gets quite a few people into the sport.

on a local level, our club gets a few riders to do some stunts at various community events through the year. it often plants the seed in kid's minds that just because it's slow doesn't mean trials isn't a huge challenge and thrill.

as mentioned earlier, there is a growing awareness that all the top extreme enduro riders are ex-trials champs and i know a lot of guys dabble with the idea of getting a trials bike to improve their dirt riding. we've started a cross training channel here to try and build on this interest and encourage guys to get into trials. a series of "how to..." vids are on the way.

it was mentioned trials can be seen as a bit of a murky mysterious form of two-wheeled sport. we've tried to demystify it to some extent with an "interested in trials?" section on our site that hopefully explains how to get into it. then a series of trials training vids here to work on.

we are dead keen to make trials a lot more popular down under, and definitely open to any other ideas...

Quote:
Originally Posted by devo2002 View Post
No umbrella girls
i take it you haven't seen the cheer leaders in the FIM world indoor trials videos?
B1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 06:00 PM   #23
IndyChizzle
Inspired by Trevor W
 
IndyChizzle's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Indianapolis, IN by Kessler and Michigan Rd.
Oddometer: 734
Quote:
Originally Posted by motobene View Post
BTW I'm going to post a very low hours Montesa 314R in the trials for sale thread for a fellow I know in Kansas. Great entry bike.
Thank you for the gesture! I put my supermoto on Craigslist here in Indy trolling for a local trials bike. Wish me luck.
__________________
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." John Shedd
2013 Tiger 800 XC
Please register to be an organ donor at www.DonateLife.net . It only takes about 3 minutes!
IndyChizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 07:12 PM   #24
Johno33772
Johnny Africa
 
Johno33772's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Location: St Petesburg, FL
Oddometer: 858
Trials...

Down here in Fl the #'s have dropped a bunch. I took a few years off to race & ride other MC disciplines. Last year I bought a used Sherco & started back up. A few of us sat back asked this same question...We started bringing our trials bikes out to every bike event we could ...in the past 6-8 months we have added another 6 riders to the local scene. We have the found that's it easier to bring the older Guys in that have more "disposable" income than the 20 year olds. If we can get Dad interested it sometimes will get the kids involved & Dad will buy another bike.
Today people want easy...we all know trials takes patience & practice which many riders don't have, probably why we so many Quads being purchased instead of 2 wheelers.
__________________
KTM 1190R / XR500 Street tracker project/ KTM 500XCW / KTM 300XCW / Sherco 2.9 / Honda ZA50,Ural Patrol
Johno33772 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 07:47 PM   #25
luckychucky
Beastly Adventurer
 
luckychucky's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: SE Missouri
Oddometer: 1,157
Hope there is a Hell

Quote:
Originally Posted by laser17 View Post
I wonder if the E-Bikes will help change the landscape of the sport - at least in suburban areas that restrict land use to the point where there's very few places to ride.

When I was A kid, we hopped on our bikes and were gone until sunset. Trails all over the place. Those same areas now are packed with houses and the few state parks and recreation areas don't allow motor vehicles, even trials bikes. Even a cheap heavy bike is no good if there's no place local to ride.
Today, every dead end road had keep out, no trespassing. Land grabbers.
luckychucky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 08:43 PM   #26
somethingnuw
Adventurer
 
Joined: Feb 2014
Location: Canada
Oddometer: 19
As an older newbee to the sport... i am interested in trials for something to do as a family. I love riding but MX isn't big up here (season too short) and I want something safer for my 3 boys. My wife rides and also wants something safer then a cr125... we like trail riding and going discovering as up here in Canada that's easy to do.

My point, Pacific Trials bike ass is what sold us into looking at the sport. Anything close to the city with nice trails is exclusive to them and trials bikes only! As the cities grew they grabbed a trail system used by bike for years. The mx bikes and their hair straight back riders where not looked on to well. You know, lifted trucks, loud music and illegal sweet smelling smoke? All bad for public image when mom and dads with kids wanna now use mx bike trails for hiking. So the gov't shut them out. BUT the trials bike ass, came in cleaned up the area and made it safe and fun for family to be there. Trials bike riders are a much friendlier often classier bunch....

My advise sell the sport to whomever cotrols your trail systems... keep being the helpful friendly bunch you are and watch the sport grow as most of us mx guys aren't that bad and we just like to ride and learn new skills...

someone should look at what the Pacific Trials Bike ass near Vancouver, BC has done... they are what's attracting me and my family of 5 to the sport. they have secured some very nice riding... best part is... no quads or guys doing 100mph to run your kids over and they are very well taken by the hiking public as they keep trails open and are the most important of all respectful

Mini electric trials bikes like OSET will also help... people should push these as safer then those 300lb blocks that crush kids call quads that some parents feel are safer for their 5 year olds then bikes... heck even our family doc bought one for his 4 year old instead of a bike...

on that note about to pull the trigger on two sherco 250 sy... 2001 any input would be great. Good shape but ridden, long range kits both bikes 4000k


oh sorry almost forgot... people always comment how quite trials bikes are as comparted to MX... great selling point to the gov't for urban sprawl
somethingnuw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 07:01 AM   #27
Gripsteruser
Service Monkey
 
Joined: Jul 2013
Location: N. Colo
Oddometer: 739
Some comments from an uninvolved bystander who wishes you well-

When I first got into motorcycling long ago (1979) I took out a library book about trials riding and started trying to apply it to the Honda XL185S that I had. I rode over construction site dirt piles and did tight turns in parking lots & such. Rode the streets to find these places. Made me a better rider. But not a Trials rider.

I'm a dual-sport kinda guy. Here are some things to think about which I consider to be barriers to my own entry into the sport -

1. Trials bikes are very specialized. They aren't street-legal so can't be ridden to the practice area. They require trailering. (I don't have space for trailer nor hitches to pull them and have no other reason for trailers.)

2. Trials bike doesn't serve as a trAil bike. Not likely to ride it all day long seeing the countryside. (Picture riding loops in the Colorado high country)
I like to sightsee. Dual sporters like the same. And I expect that even the harder-core dirt riders are the same. Covering ground is what we do.


3. US Public land managers want everyone to stay on the trAils. Veering out into the landscape to practice putting wheels all over a rockpile or set of logs would be considered destructive in the National Forests and would get you a ticket if caught and get the riding area closed if there were too many visible signs of wheel tracks. So - no practicing in public???

4. Private/club land is thus required to ride Trials style for fun and practice. Playgrounds are nice but aren't really the freedom activities that many of us want motorcycling to be.

These things add up to "restrictive" factors which simply make Trials riding a very cool curiosity for me. I'd like to do it and raise my skills but....


Riding obstacles on motorcycles that can be easily applied to other aspects of riding might help broaden the appeal. Equipment classes could level the playing field somewhat.

I like the Glock and IDPA/IPSC analogy. (I often outshot guys using raceguns while using my stock SA 1911 just because my equipment didn't fail.) Of course, just like in IDPA & IPSC there will ALWAYS be an equipment race.


I'm following this thread. I hope this helped a little bit.
__________________
1988 R100GS (since new)

Previous- XT350, CB900F, XL185S, GS425E
Gripsteruser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 08:42 AM   #28
lamotovita
Ageing Adventurer
 
lamotovita's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: WA/AZ, USA
Oddometer: 1,448
[QUOTE=Gripsteruser;23947512

Riding obstacles on motorcycles that can be easily applied to other aspects of riding might help broaden the appeal. Equipment classes could level the playing field somewhat.[/QUOTE]

Have you attended a club level Trials event?
Entry level Trials sections can be successfully ridden on a trail bike.
__________________
Beaten paths are for beaten men.
lamotovita is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 09:26 AM   #29
IndyChizzle
Inspired by Trevor W
 
IndyChizzle's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Indianapolis, IN by Kessler and Michigan Rd.
Oddometer: 734
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamotovita View Post
Have you attended a club level Trials event?
Entry level Trials sections can be successfully ridden on a trail bike.
Honest question here; what type of trail bike do you see most for this application?
__________________
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." John Shedd
2013 Tiger 800 XC
Please register to be an organ donor at www.DonateLife.net . It only takes about 3 minutes!
IndyChizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 01:12 PM   #30
lamotovita
Ageing Adventurer
 
lamotovita's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: WA/AZ, USA
Oddometer: 1,448
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyChizzle View Post
Honest question here; what type of trail bike do you see most for this application?
I see very few. Most riders seem to be as interested in owning a Trials bike as riding a Trial, in many cases more so.

Sadly the trailbike seems to be a disappearing breed, replaced by racer replicas.
Common bikes that work well are air cooled with conventional forks, this gives them good steering lock. Honda XRs work fine. Small dualsports can also work well, such as Kawasaki Super Sherpa and Yamaha XT250.


But even MX bikes can work, if that's what you trail ride.
__________________
Beaten paths are for beaten men.

lamotovita screwed with this post 04-16-2014 at 01:27 PM
lamotovita is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 10:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014