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Old 04-20-2014, 03:18 AM   #16
AMAC1680
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Originally Posted by 6speed View Post
Hey LH 747, Tortise mentioned to me that Lance is coming out with some new models. One is the Lance Cabo available as a 150. It has the look of the Yamaha Zuma/BeeWee and the specs are the same as the PCH just different tires and front fairing, FWIW.

You can find them on carolinafunmachines.com

6

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I was thinking about the hooligan but am leaning to the Cabo.



I have two SYM/Lance products that have been rock solid. I don't need the top end so the 150 would do the job for less bucks.

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Old 04-20-2014, 09:21 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by AMAC1680 View Post
I was thinking about the hooligan but am leaning to the Cabo.



I have two SYM/Lance products that have been rock solid. I don't need the top end so the 150 would do the job for less bucks.

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Pretty nice looking scooter. With the Cabo 150's lighter weight I doubt it will run much slower then the Hooligan 170i in the real world. Its carbureted but also $1100 cheaper.

The Hooligan is growing more out of favor every day :-(

I looked at the specs for the Zuma 125. On paper the Hooligan 170i and the Zuma 125 are practically identical except for weight and power output. Still I should reserve final judgement until its seen in person. Most scooters have similar specs on paper but in person they are all very different.

Did a lot of thinking last night. I was giving serious thought of just trading the PCX125, Super 8 150 and the Agility 125 straight across for the 2015 PCX 150 and being done with it.
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Old 04-20-2014, 10:08 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by AMAC1680 View Post
I was thinking about the hooligan but am leaning to the Cabo.



I have two SYM/Lance products that have been rock solid. I don't need the top end so the 150 would do the job for less bucks.

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That is sharp and what the Hooligan should have been. Instead they got rid of its cool digital dash of the X-Hot and added the ugly and cheap nacelle and gauges.
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Old 04-22-2014, 09:36 PM   #19
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Found this write up tonight on the motor scooter guide website.

http://motorscooterguide.net/Genuine...ligan-170.html

Reading this makes it sound a little more like it should. They also claim 15HP output witch is more like it and a 2 gallon tank witch will actually give you some touring ability over a 1.6 gallon tank.

Still need to see this in the flesh and test ride it but I am gaining some confidence it might end up being a cool scoot.
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Old 04-23-2014, 06:17 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by longhaul747 View Post
Found this write up tonight on the motor scooter guide website.

http://motorscooterguide.net/Genuine...ligan-170.html

Reading this makes it sound a little more like it should. They also claim 15HP output witch is more like it and a 2 gallon tank witch will actually give you some touring ability over a 1.6 gallon tank.

Still need to see this in the flesh and test ride it but I am gaining some confidence it might end up being a cool scoot.
I tried finding a horsepower reference for the Buddy 170i thinking that since it's essentially the same powerplant as the Hooligan it would be easy to verify. No luck whatsoever. 15 HP out of a 170 that is air/oil cooled seems a bit of a stretch- The SYM HD200 is water cooled but carbureted and is 15.3 HP. So maybe the FI is compensating for the air cooled trade off?

Regardless, with the 12 inch wheels 70mph should be doable. Glad it's got your interest level back up. I'm dying to read a real world review of this scooter....FYI- I noticed on Genuine Buddy that the 170i seems to gain quite a bit of speed after break in, so be careful making any judgements on a demo version when they first come out....
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Old 04-23-2014, 08:49 AM   #21
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I tried finding a horsepower reference for the Buddy 170i thinking that since it's essentially the same powerplant as the Hooligan it would be easy to verify. No luck whatsoever. 15 HP out of a 170 that is air/oil cooled seems a bit of a stretch- The SYM HD200 is water cooled but carbureted and is 15.3 HP. So maybe the FI is compensating for the air cooled trade off?

Regardless, with the 12 inch wheels 70mph should be doable. Glad it's got your interest level back up. I'm dying to read a real world review of this scooter....FYI- I noticed on Genuine Buddy that the 170i seems to gain quite a bit of speed after break in, so be careful making any judgements on a demo version when they first come out....
Yeah you may be right about the optimistic HP ratings. The new Burgman 200 is 200cc's and a technical marvel in comparison and its 18 HP. It would be tough for an air cooled 168cc engine to get 15 HP. Not impossible but it would probably take a state of tune that would sacrifice fuel economy and long term reliability possibly. I don't think fuel injection changes much when it comes to HP. The real benefit to FI is more accurate fueling. Maybe a bit more power but not a lot.

Still thinking a Grom instead. I still have plenty of real scooters and a little monkey bike would be fun. However its only 125cc's and air cooled so probably not comfortably fast enough for around here. No storage capability. Also a little concerned about safety. The Grom is surprisingly roomy for adults but its foot print and bulk is pretty minimal. A scooter has a lot more pork so you can be seen easier. Not sure if it makes any real world difference because drivers are blind but it is something I thought about.

I am trying to talk myself out of this Grom idea!

Biggest problem with the Grom is availability and dealers are still playing pricing games. My max price is about $3,900 OTD but dealers seem to want about $4,500. Apparently Honda got the memo and a bunch of Grom's will be coming soon to satisfy the market and likely then some. So pricing should stabilize. What is so odd is if I put a deposit down they can get me a Grom in a week but no deposit it could be months yet they have no waiting list or other deposits. Its like the shortage is artificial and if you are serious they got one for you.
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Old 04-23-2014, 09:24 AM   #22
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This looks interesting. I figure it will be a couple of years before I'm ready to replace my Super 8 but I am keeping my eye open for a suitable replacement. I would like something around the same size and weight as my Super 8, but with a little more performance, bigger gas tank, better fuel mileage, and better cornering clearance. I don't want a big wheel scooter since I prefer the nimble handling of smaller wheels and the bigger under seat storage of small wheel scooters. 12 -14 inch wheels would be fine. Right now the Movie 150 and Fly 150 are at the top of my list but I'm hoping something better will come along. This might be it.
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Old 04-23-2014, 10:25 AM   #23
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This looks interesting. I figure it will be a couple of years before I'm ready to replace my Super 8 but I am keeping my eye open for a suitable replacement. I would like something around the same size and weight as my Super 8, but with a little more performance, bigger gas tank, better fuel mileage, and better cornering clearance. I don't want a big wheel scooter since I prefer the nimble handling of smaller wheels and the bigger under seat storage of small wheel scooters. 12 -14 inch wheels would be fine. Right now the Movie 150 and Fly 150 are at the top of my list but I'm hoping something better will come along. This might be it.
Last November I picked up a used 2009 Super 8 150 with 2,400 miles on it and in pretty good shape for a measly $900. It was really one of those split of the moment decisions I now kind of regret but the price was pretty good and I have had some fun with it.

I really like the size of the Super 8. Its kind of between a small scoot and a mini maxi in size. I am hoping the Hooligan 170 comes in at a very similar size.

As for power the Super 8 150 seems very adequate. Seems to get around a tad better then the Agility 125 and seems to have a hair more reserve power. Handling is very crisp but the ride is a bit harsh. For me it has its place and I like the handling and the ride quality does not bother me.

My only real complaints is the spotty carburetion. If you run it every day or every few days it starts great. Push it much past a week and it starts a little harder. Past a month it won't start until after you drain down the battery and kick it dozens of times. When it finely starts it will idle at half speed making all sorts of scary noises from the engine until it warms up enough to stabilize. Its not so bad so far this Spring but during the winter it was kind of a nightmare. I have since tuned it up and seems a bit better.

Also at the moment it will start fine when cold. Not even that cold blooded and you can pull away after 10 seconds. Turn it off and get right on it and it will start. However let it cool off for 15 to 30 minutes and then get back on it the bike won't start. I have recently learned that if you pin the throttle it will start when its brackish but if conditions are not right you could fowl a plug easily. The by starter appears to be working correctly.

Also I wish it had a bigger gas tank. I seem to average about 65 MPG and I usually need to get fuel around that same point. I have had to stop for fuel twice in the same day just running local errands.

Also the few parts I needed took forever to get. I ordered an air filter online from one of the best Kymco part source last November and it just came about 2 weeks ago. They said it was a stock item but they sold out and it just took that long to get them back in.

So other then some parts taking a while to get and the spotty carburetion plus the small gas tank its a pretty cool scoot.

My plan is to be done with carburetors and part with the Agility 125 and the Super 8 150 for the Hooligan 170 if it fits the criteria. If I am not satisfied with the Hooligan 170i then I will part with them plus my PCX125 when the new PCX150 comes out. Probable be about even and that would leave me with spare cash in reserve for another bike down the road.
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Old 04-23-2014, 11:12 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Dabears View Post
I tried finding a horsepower reference for the Buddy 170i thinking that since it's essentially the same powerplant as the Hooligan it would be easy to verify. No luck whatsoever. 15 HP out of a 170 that is air/oil cooled seems a bit of a stretch- The SYM HD200 is water cooled but carbureted and is 15.3 HP. So maybe the FI is compensating for the air cooled trade off?

Regardless, with the 12 inch wheels 70mph should be doable. Glad it's got your interest level back up. I'm dying to read a real world review of this scooter....FYI- I noticed on Genuine Buddy that the 170i seems to gain quite a bit of speed after break in, so be careful making any judgements on a demo version when they first come out....
The SYM HD 200 is also 4 valve vs 2 for the 170i/Hooligan engine. I have a 170i and also have never seen a hp spec for it.

Genuine claims for top speed are 55 for the 170i, "60+" for the Hooligan. Their specs show the Hooligan being about 30lb. heavier. The Just Gotta Scoot review listed a top gps speed of 62 mph for the 170i, on a bike not yet broken in.

The fastest I've gotten my 170i to is an indicated 60, though the speed was still creeping up very slowly when I had to back off for a turn.

To my mind, my 256lb (wet) bike should be able to go about 5-10 mph faster. Genuine says the Hooligan is 5-10 mph faster despite being 30-40lb heavier.

I suspect Genuine and PGO have deliberately engineered the 170i to top out at a lower speed due to the 10" J-rated (62 mph) tires vs the larger and probably higher speed rated ones on the Hooligan.

I am not complaining, my Buddy is actually exceeding my performance expectations as far as acceleration to suburban boulevard cruising speed, gets 80-90mpg, and makes me and most people who see it grin.
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Old 04-23-2014, 11:57 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Oldenuftaknowbetter View Post
The SYM HD 200 is also 4 valve vs 2 for the 170i/Hooligan engine. I have a 170i and also have never seen a hp spec for it.

Genuine claims for top speed are 55 for the 170i, "60+" for the Hooligan. Their specs show the Hooligan being about 30lb. heavier. The Just Gotta Scoot review listed a top gps speed of 62 mph for the 170i, on a bike not yet broken in.

The fastest I've gotten my 170i to is an indicated 60, though the speed was still creeping up very slowly when I had to back off for a turn.

To my mind, my 256lb (wet) bike should be able to go about 5-10 mph faster. Genuine says the Hooligan is 5-10 mph faster despite being 30-40lb heavier.

I suspect Genuine and PGO have deliberately engineered the 170i to top out at a lower speed due to the 10" J-rated (62 mph) tires vs the larger and probably higher speed rated ones on the Hooligan.

I am not complaining, my Buddy is actually exceeding my performance expectations as far as acceleration to suburban boulevard cruising speed, gets 80-90mpg, and makes me and most people who see it grin.
That is good information- Thanks. Yes, it sure sounds like the top speed of the Buddy 170i is lower than you would expect; most claim the SYM will hit an honest 73 mph. I know it's (SYM) water cooled, but if the Hooligan is only capable to hitting 60 it does nothing my P200e won't already do (ok, it probably has brakes that function ).

Anyway, I hope they sell like hotcakes and drive lots of sales to Genuine. I'll watch this space for the first test ride report!
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Old 04-23-2014, 12:10 PM   #26
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I haven't had any problems with the carb on my Super 8, but then I ride nearly every day. Even in the winter it's rare for it to sit for more than a few days. Even when temps are in the 20s I can fire it up and ride away. The battery is a little marginal at those temps but one kick will fire it up. I can't really complain about my Super 8. It was a perfect first scooter and great value for the money. I have 15,600 miles on it and plan on replacing it around 25K. I will be willing to pay a premium price for a small scooter that has the features I want and premium quality.
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Old 04-27-2014, 10:27 AM   #27
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Nothing new to report in regards to the Hooligan 170i. Been following other forums and not much talk about it interestingly. Even on the Modern Buddy website is absent of any recent talk. Hopefully just a case of not much to talk about until its released.

I did notice its now live on most scooter buying guides and info sites so it must not be long now. Probably stop by the local Genuine dealer on Tuesday for an update and see if they have any official inquiries (as in cash down deposit). At this point I am not interested in putting down a deposit unless its very refundable and this is stated in writing. At last talk I am the only inquiry and because of my status as a customer they will just call me when it arrives off the truck.

Its still a race between it and the Grom as a possibility. However I am still trying to talk myself out of a Grom. The local Honda dealer told me yesterday that they expect 4 in very soon. Demand is still high but amazingly no deposits yet. However they really tried to talk me into putting a deposit down (non refundable). However they said I could easily use the deposit as a credit on another bike. I said Thanks but no thanks and just call me when they come in. They again claimed that they will likely be secure deposits by the time they come in and I will miss out but I said I will just miss out then.

They did seem to indicate with some hesitation that the batch of 4 coming in will likely be the start of a more steady stream of Grom's. However both Honda and most dealers seem to be drinking the cool aid that eventually demand will soften so some caution in distribution remains.

As for the 2015 PCX150 I am getting indications that it might be coming sooner then July but also hearing it may be delayed so they can purge the surplus 2013 models first. Nothing official either way!

With Honda you just never know. The new Gold Wing Valkyries showed up right on time but the new CBR650 and the VFR800 are nowhere to be seen yet.
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Old 04-27-2014, 02:59 PM   #28
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I really like the looks of the matte black Hooligan. It has inspired me to change the character of my boring white 2012 Zuma 125 a bit. I am replacing the white body panels with matte black from a 2013 model, removed the windshield, top box and mount, guard around the headlight, installing clear turn signal lenses, replacing the oem tires with new Michelin Boppers (much more street oriented), and installing a Two Brothers exhaust. It is much louder than the stock pipe, and should inject a little excitement into an otherwise dull scooter. The bright aluminum muffler should contrast nicely with the all black bike. I may later go with the vertical headlight setup. All this for the cost of the dealer fees on a new scooter.
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Old 04-27-2014, 09:15 PM   #29
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I really like the looks of the matte black Hooligan. It has inspired me to change the character of my boring white 2012 Zuma 125 a bit. I am replacing the white body panels with matte black from a 2013 model, removed the windshield, top box and mount, guard around the headlight, installing clear turn signal lenses, replacing the oem tires with new Michelin Boppers (much more street oriented), and installing a Two Brothers exhaust. It is much louder than the stock pipe, and should inject a little excitement into an otherwise dull scooter. The bright aluminum muffler should contrast nicely with the all black bike. I may later go with the vertical headlight setup. All this for the cost of the dealer fees on a new scooter.
That is the color of my Zuma 125 and I love it. For the most part I am pretty happy with the Zuma 125. Could use a bit more power but it is what it is.

I think it would be totally cool if Yamaha put out a Mega Zuma (hey that works..LOL) with a 200+ cc engine and maybe slightly larger frame. Sort of Yamaha's take on the Big Ruckus. Problem is they would probably have to charge a lot of cash for it. Then again with scoots like the Forza 300 coming out with lower MSRP then its replacement from 12 years ago anything is possible.

My only concern for the matte finishes is they may not take wear really well. I have seen a few bikes with matte finishes on the tank and it has warn through in some spots and in others has a funny glossy look that does not match the rest. I think its a legitimate concern for someone who really uses a bike with a matte finish. For me though its not much of an issue.

FINELY...after what seems like ages we will be getting steady nice weather. So I hope to get some more ride reports on some of my newer bikes. I also hope to take a trip down to Seattle Cycle Center and take a look at the latest Kymco, Sym and Lance scooters. Really want to go all fuel injection and I am almost there and that limits things. However it would still be worth a look.

They also have some new old stock scoots that are going for pretty reasonable prices.
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Old 04-27-2014, 09:50 PM   #30
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The matte black panels on the Zuma do not appear to be painted. They are just made of textured black plastic like all the other black parts of the bike. A few parts are shiny black, like the front fender and hand guards, but they are also just plastic with the color molded in. Only painted parts seem to be the frame and wheels. I don't think it will wear down like paint. These panels were really cheap. All three of them only cost me $53 including shipping.

I love the idea of a larger Zuma, as long as they keep it in scale. For some reason it seems like scooters get longer as the displacement goes up. It should be a perfect sport scooter with some street oriented tires. I just have to be careful not to get into the scooter mod scene, and wind up spending thousands of dollars on it.
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