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Old 05-20-2014, 09:23 AM   #91
DaBinChe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longhaul747 View Post
I tell you never over estimate the power of water cooling. This is in regards to the Sym HD200. Just finished the day riding around on my Elite 110. The Elite 110 just never ceases to amaze me. Despite its minimal 110cc displacement the scooter seriously moves and to be honest it feels quicker then many larger displacement air cooled motors. The Elite 110 is quicker then the Zuma 125 and the SportCity 125/Typhoon 125 when I had those Italian scoots. Dare I say it the Elite 110 would likely even blow the doors off the Fly 150 3V off the line and up until the Elite 110 bumps off its rev limiter.

The air cooled scooters despite being larger displacement only had the advantage of more torque. So they performed a little better climbing hills. The 110cc mill in the Elite 110 simply runs out of torque when climbing hills but even then it does surprisingly well. Also overall top speed on the Elite 110 is limited to 52 MPH to protect the engine. I am confident it could go much faster without hesitation but Honda felt it needed to limit the speed in order to protect the longevity of the motor.

My point is its very likely that when it comes to anything water cooled around the displacement of the Hooligan 170 will likely out perform the Hooligan by a large margin. This is not a deal killer necessarily but despite its size I am willing the bet the Hooligan is a bit of a disappointment at least in the quickness department. Only its brunt force torque of its larger displacement (comparing to 110-150cc water cooled scoots) will provide some benefits. I expect the Hooligan to perform very well around my area with all the hills.



I am still excited to see the Hooligan 170i in person and hopefully get a test ride. Hopefully tomorrow is that day. Still a bit reserved about buying it but with the trades it would not be that difficult. Getting kind of anxious to get rid of the Kymco's. Overall pretty good scoots but the Super 8 dumped some muffler parts and it took 5 months to get an air filter for it.
Yes the Elite is just too elite!

No on the hooligan better to go with the hd200..but really the new pcx150 is the bomb
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Old 05-20-2014, 10:54 AM   #92
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Yes the Elite is just too elite!

No on the hooligan better to go with the hd200..but really the new pcx150 is the bomb
Yeah the Elite is great. So much for tech improving things. The engine in the Elite is a very conventional 2 valve design with water cooling. Not much science in it but it sure moves good. On paper its about 10 MPG short of my PCX but for some reason it just feels more frugal. I can tour all over Seattle and then some and still have a 1/4 tank of gas left.

Today I will be in the area of the Genuine dealer. Hopefully they got it in. Logic would say yes they did get it in but sense the use the 3rd party warehouse and assembler method they may very likely not have it.

The game plan if I decide to purchase it is to trade the Super 8 150 and the Agility 125 in and pay cash for the difference. Late last year I had a feeling I would be making some changes this year so I padded the scooter fund. Always feels better paying cash for these things.
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Old 05-20-2014, 02:11 PM   #93
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Nope no Hooligan today. Have not even arrived at the warehouse yet!

Not a very good distribution model unfortunately its fairly common it seems. It took over a month before all the dealers had the new 2014 DL1000 in stock.

Just have to wait it out!
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Old 05-20-2014, 03:15 PM   #94
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It took a year before dealers had the Suzuki GW250 in stock.
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Old 05-20-2014, 04:14 PM   #95
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It took a year before dealers had the Suzuki GW250 in stock.
Yeah that is correct. In fact for a while it looked like the GW250 was canceled but then all of a sudden they started showing up. The GW250 took so long because of emissions from what I heard. Some delays in the approval process and maybe a DOT issue or 2 as well.

I might be wrong but the GW250 is still not certified for sale in California. Only the other 49 states unless this recently changed.

It would be interesting to learn just what goes on during the certification process. I have a GW250 and as far as I can tell its as clean burning as they get. No smell or soot from the exhaust. Even tried a piece of tissue over the exhaust pipe for a minute or so and no stains from the exhaust on it. Did not even smell of exhaust yet. I am sure if I left it there longer it would have stained and smelled but from what I could see its a really clean burning motor.

Its just funny how some bikes that are CARB approved actually burn much dirtier and the exhaust is more smelly yet one that seems much cleaner would not be.

In the Hooligan 170's case its simply slow and inefficient shipping and perhaps some dealers get priority. Also some dealers use a 3rd party warehouse and assembly company witch further slows the process down.

I asked one of the dealers I know why they would use a 3rd party warehouse and assembler? Usually in the business world anything you can do in house will save you money. The dealer simply stated that the service department charges the sales department the full labor rate. So its cheaper to use the 3rd party warehouse and assembler. It sounds like a whole lot of caca to me and likely some sort of voodoo economics taking place at the dealerships. If I owned a dealership I would charge the sales department the "REAL" labor rate and save my customers some money and get the bikes sooner.

As it is by default my Genuine dealer said the assembly fee is $150. This simply covers the cost of the 3rd party warehouse putting the bike together. Because they use the 3rd party company they want that fee very badly. If it was done in house and billed at the labor rate the employee makes (say $15) and it takes 5 hours that would only be $75. I doubt it would take an experienced mechanic 5 hours to set up. Probably takes longer to get it out of the crate then to get it ready for sale. Probably more like 2 hours for most bikes.

Its not like the warehouse does a fantastic job. They still have to go through them because they find mistakes all the time. For what the dealer paid the mechanic to inspect the work they could have just done it themselves and saved the headache and expense.

I think the main reason is the manufacture supplies the warehouse. The dealer simply pulls from the warehouse inventory as needed. That way they pay less flooring cost. The dealer does not own it until it gets delivered by the warehouse. Its all okay because the customer pays for it anyway!
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Old 05-20-2014, 06:49 PM   #96
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Info: The GW250 is CARB-approved and is for sale in California dealerships.
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Old 05-20-2014, 07:01 PM   #97
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Info: The GW250 is CARB-approved and is for sale in California dealerships.
Thanks for the info. I heard it was one of many reasons for the delay but I can't remember if it was ever sorted. Some manufactures don't bother and don't offer for sale that particular bike in California.

Probably only Suzuki knows the true reasons for the delay and anything else on the internet is just theory.
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Old 05-27-2014, 03:16 PM   #98
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Here is a little update just to keep the thread going.....

For some reason the Genuine dealers in my area are having a hard time getting the Hooligan 170i in. As of Saturday the warehouse has not even received them yet.

After noticing other dealers around the country started getting them as far back as 2 weeks ago they said they would give Genuine a call today. Its probably not going to change anything but I did voice my displeasure to the selling dealer in a professional manor.

For some reason I am starting to loose a bit of interest now. Hopefully seeing it in person will renew my interest.
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Old 05-27-2014, 05:28 PM   #99
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Don't feel too bad

My dealer doesn't have any either. Don't know if they ordered any. They've really boosted their vespa inventory lately, and have no Genuine or SYM over 125cc.
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Old 05-27-2014, 05:52 PM   #100
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My dealer doesn't have any either. Don't know if they ordered any. They've really boosted their vespa inventory lately, and have no Genuine or SYM over 125cc.
The Hooligan I test rode sold and my dealer doesn't know when the next one will be in.

Other than that they are stocked to the rafters with full line Kymco, SYM/Lance and Genuine ummm except a hooligan at the moment.....

BTW this is just one location. See the scoot you love in the color you hate. No worries its in stock at one of the other stores. This place sells scooters.


Kymco Downtown and Myroad right SYM Citycom and HD right.
(gt300i not pictured but in stock)


Lance Cali Classic right , PCH left.


Lance Cabos


Kymco Super 8, Agility etc.


Genuine Stella, Buddy, Roughhouse...

But nary another Hoooligan in sight!
or a Blur for that matter.

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Old 05-27-2014, 07:22 PM   #101
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My dealer doesn't have any either. Don't know if they ordered any. They've really boosted their vespa inventory lately, and have no Genuine or SYM over 125cc.
Sort of sounds like Genuine is pulling a Grom with the Hooligan and keeping the supply low. Many dealers got them but many did not. My dealer got a bulk email that the Hooligan's have shipped and they ordered 4 or at least 4 are coming to the warehouse. That was a few weeks ago though so for some reason the actual order for my dealer and others did not appear to actually ship.

They seem a bit PO'ed because they are supposedly one of the higher priority dealers because they do pretty good volume. They never had an issue with Genuine before.

I am sure its probably coming and its not like motorcycles have a real release date.
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Old 05-28-2014, 04:49 AM   #102
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AMAC-

You noted "Kymco Downtown and Myroad right SYM Citycom and HD right." Did you mean HD200? I don't see one in any of your pictures. I do know a dealer in Jax advertises HD200s on Craigslist all the time- thought this might be the place.

Also, in fairness to Genuine- there is another dealer in Atlanta that has two locations that I have not been to, and they don't post their inventory online. They do however show a Hooligan advert on their webpage so maybe they got or will soon get some. Their focus is on SE Asian scooters, so I can see them more interested in the Hooligan and the SYM HDs than a dealer who is first and foremost a Vespa shop (and now the only remaining Vespa dealer in Atlanta). Hard to fault them when they have so much inventory tied up in beautiful Italians
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Old 05-28-2014, 06:17 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Dabears View Post
AMAC-

You noted "Kymco Downtown and Myroad right SYM Citycom and HD right." Did you mean HD200? I don't see one in any of your pictures. I do know a dealer in Jax advertises HD200s on Craigslist all the time- thought this might be the place.

Also, in fairness to Genuine- there is another dealer in Atlanta that has two locations that I have not been to, and they don't post their inventory online. They do however show a Hooligan advert on their webpage so maybe they got or will soon get some. Their focus is on SE Asian scooters, so I can see them more interested in the Hooligan and the SYM HDs than a dealer who is first and foremost a Vespa shop (and now the only remaining Vespa dealer in Atlanta). Hard to fault them when they have so much inventory tied up in beautiful Italians
Yeah bad captions or directionally challenged!
It's the dealer you're thinking of and there are a couple of HD200 there. The selection has led me down the "impulse" buy mode a few times.

Say what we will about SYM/Lance but as far as getting this style scooter to market they did it right. Announce, promote, supply, deliver.



Maybe Genuine was rushed after the alleged Facebook leak of the Hooligan. Or they were pushed by the knowledge of other more "price point" scoots of that style on the way.

For the record the Cabo 125 is a nice scoot. They had no 150s yet. Solid ,looks good and It preforms well. The controls and some little things show where that price point was reached. Hard to beat for the money.

And so it goes.

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Old 05-28-2014, 08:16 AM   #104
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Wha, wait? What's a Cabo? Looks like a new Lance/SYM scooter similar to the Hooligan?? Do you have any specs on the 150cc model? Does it have a water cooled ceramic cylinder like the HD, or is this an aircooled thing? Holy cow. Yet another scooter I have to get up to speed on!
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Old 05-28-2014, 09:59 AM   #105
longhaul747 OP
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Originally Posted by AMAC1680 View Post
Yeah bad captions or directionally challenged!
It's the dealer you're thinking of and there are a couple of HD200 there. The selection has led me down the "impulse" buy mode a few times.

Say what we will about SYM/Lance but as far as getting this style scooter to market they did it right. Announce, promote, supply, deliver.



Maybe Genuine was rushed after the alleged Facebook leak of the Hooligan. Or they were pushed by the knowledge of other more "price point" scoots of that style on the way.

For the record the Cabo 125 is a nice scoot. They had no 150s yet. Solid ,looks good and It preforms well. The controls and some little things show where that price point was reached. Hard to beat for the money.

And so it goes.

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Admittedly The Cabo 125-150 are starting to look pretty good and come in at a very attractive price point. If only they were fuel injected and had a more solid dealer network and support in my area.
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