ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-22-2014, 08:34 PM   #1
cccolin OP
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2013
Location: brooklyn
Oddometer: 685
ever taken advanced riding classes? worth it?

been thinking about taking some advanced riding classes lately. a little background: I'm on my third bike. two 650 twins, and now a liter i4. first bike was in 06, had it for about a year. mostly just commuted with occasional hour rides. didn't ride again until last may, when I picked up my second bike. rode the hell out of it, did a 1500 miler and a bunch of shorter trips, around 4 hours out and 4 back. rode a bunch of twisties down south over the winter. have had the liter i4 since January, mostly urban commuting and longer rides on the weekends. felt like the bike was constantly trying to kill me when i first got it, but am feeling much more confident on it. i ride pretty hard, feel confident in curves, braking, etc. have never had a knee down, but mostly because I don't have gear with knee sliders and am not exactly looking to grind my kneecap off. I'd like to get more confident with riding fast, like actually fast (but at the same time am getting more leery of riding faster on public roads, partially due to close calls with maniac drivers, and partially due to two different friends recently getting nailed and put in the hospital while riding at legal speeds).

anyone have suggestions for classes to take for someone at my level? I'm in NYC, if that makes a difference.

Cheers
cccolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2014, 08:57 PM   #2
Vulfy
Studly Adventurer
 
Vulfy's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: NYC
Oddometer: 547
Where in NYC are you planning to ride fast? I mean its possible, but from your post you do not necessarily want the consequences associated with it.

I personally am looking to go to Yamaha Champions Riding school in NJ (they moved there very recently). I'm subscribed to their fastersafer.com and from what I've heard, as well as watching bits and pieces, seems like a reasonable approach to fast riding.
__________________
www.moto-gym.com
Vulfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2014, 09:23 PM   #3
cccolin OP
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2013
Location: brooklyn
Oddometer: 685
well, i'm moving to Tennessee in the fall. but have been considering the track.
cccolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 05:34 AM   #4
foxtrapper
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Oddometer: 663
Generally speaking, the advanced courses from MSF and such are on harder braking, tighter low speed turning and such. Rarely if ever is any done at actual high speeds. If you want high speed practice, you'll need to go to a track day or track class.
foxtrapper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 05:55 AM   #5
cccolin OP
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2013
Location: brooklyn
Oddometer: 685
ok. are the advanced classes from MSF helpful for someone like me or not?
cccolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 06:02 AM   #6
RxZ
Legal Drug Dealer
 
RxZ's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Tyler, TX
Oddometer: 1,819
I took the advanced MSF class. Basically, it is similar to day 2 of the beginner's course, except at higher speeds and on your bike, not their 125cc bikes. This way you learn to maneuver, swerve, brake, etc on your bike that you ride everyday. Also, the drills are done at higher speeds than what the 125cc bikes can do. More realistic braking scenarios and such.

For an urban commuter, I would do it. I can't imagine all the things that could happen riding in NYC! Better to be more prepared, than not prepared enough. Plus, most insurances will give you 10% off your bill for 3 years if you take a training course every 3 years.

All that said, if you are looking to go fast (like 100+ mph since you have an inline 4) an instructed track day is going to be your best bet. I have not done one of those yet, but would like to.
__________________
2002 Yamaha FZ1
RxZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 06:22 AM   #7
outlaws justice
Beastly Adventurer
 
outlaws justice's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Watertown NY
Oddometer: 1,021
I teach the Total Control Program, and it is available in NY and I teach it in Tennessee as well. This is 10 times better than the MSF advanced program!

I took it as a student in 2006 and at the time I was already an MSF Rider Coach (Still am) it was the best thing I have ever done for my riding and to make me both safer and better. I did my first track day a few weeks later and the difference between my self and the other newbies on the track was amazing (And I was only riding a Ninja 500) So I went and worked to become and instructor for the program as well. I continue to look for and take more rider training but by far this was the best I have done.
__________________
David
2005 KTM950 Adventure, 2007 BMW K1200GT, 2005 Yamaha Vmax, 2005 Suzuki SV650S, 1991 Honda VFR750, 2004 Honda CRF250X, 2000 Buell Blast................
outlaws justice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 06:25 AM   #8
cccolin OP
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2013
Location: brooklyn
Oddometer: 685
Ill look into that. Anyone done Cornerspeed or Cornerspin?
cccolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 07:16 AM   #9
kbuckey
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Lookout Mountain - above Golden, CO
Oddometer: 757
I was always a do it yourselfer. My first ride on a motorcycle was in 1968 when I bought my first bike (big old Yamaha TwinJet 100!!!) from a guy. He said, "Want to try it out". I said "Sure" and off I rode.

Twice the Army made me take an MSF course so I could ride on post. Neither was helpful, to tell the truth. That was in '75 and again in '82. I'm sure they're better now.

Then in 2004 I decided some learning would do me good, so I took a S.T.A.R. school at Second Creek Raceway. My first time ever on a racetrack. Tiny little track and my ZRX felt a bit like a bull in a china shop, but I learned more in two days than I had in over 30 years of riding. Jason Pridmore mentioned that Danny Walker's American Supercamp would help with traction control on iffy surfaces. That turned out to be the classic understatement! Anyway thanks to the excellent instruction from both schools (I've attended STAR 9 times and only have stopped because they aren't coming to CO anymore and I've been to Supercamp 7 times and I will be back!) I am a much more proficient rider than I was.

I loved pretty much every minute of both schools. And every day I learned something new. I could look my wife right in the eye and say "But, Sweetie, it's all about safety! I'm a much safer rider now!" OK, it's NOT ALL about safety, both schools are so much fun you've gotta be afraid that someone will find out and make them illegal. But because of them I am a much safer rider on the street.
kbuckey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 07:29 AM   #10
Detroit Steve
Homely Adventurer
 
Detroit Steve's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Further...
Oddometer: 489
Thumb

Any riding class will benefit you unless you have a "know-it-all" attitude.

I routinely take advanced MSF classes with people I know who are beginners to bolster their confidence. The range time with repetitive practices doing basic maneuvers always helps me and them.
__________________
When you create with your brain, it is work
When you create with your heart, it is craft
When you create with your soul, it is art

Detroit Steve is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 07:30 AM   #11
Vulfy
Studly Adventurer
 
Vulfy's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: NYC
Oddometer: 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by outlaws justice View Post
I teach the Total Control Program, and it is available in NY and I teach it in Tennessee as well. This is 10 times better than the MSF advanced program!

I took it as a student in 2006 and at the time I was already an MSF Rider Coach (Still am) it was the best thing I have ever done for my riding and to make me both safer and better. I did my first track day a few weeks later and the difference between my self and the other newbies on the track was amazing (And I was only riding a Ninja 500) So I went and worked to become and instructor for the program as well. I continue to look for and take more rider training but by far this was the best I have done.

I had a somewhat different experience with a Total Control class.
I had Lee's book for a while, and practised his exercises on my own.
I was hoping that by taking the class, it would be a more personal experience with the instructors, where they would help me to iron out some of my deficiencies, rather than just herd us through a program, similar to an MSF class.

Unfortunately, that's pretty much what I got from it.
It felt exactly like an MSF class. I took only Level 1 though, not Level 2. Don't know how big of a difference between those two. We did a few drills for throttle control, braking, but non of them were as "eye opening" as most people review them to be.

Nobody in our class got a knee down going around.

When we were in a classroom or lectured on the field, it felt stretched out and unnecessary long. And when we were on the bikes and on the field, it felt very rushed and conveyor like.

I can not say that it was a bad experience, but I can not praise it either.
Just wasn't what I was expecting it to be.

For street and slower technical riding, join our Gymkhana outings (in my signature).
For fast riding, I would go to a track school.
__________________
www.moto-gym.com
Vulfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 08:27 AM   #12
outlaws justice
Beastly Adventurer
 
outlaws justice's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Watertown NY
Oddometer: 1,021
Getting a knee down should not be the goal, it should be the outcome of doing the other stuff correctly, I did not get a knee down at my class or at the track, but know with continued work and pratice, I can drag a knee on the Vmax, Gold Wing and almost anything else as well. It is the outcome of doing the the stuff right. I sent you a PM I would like to know more.
__________________
David
2005 KTM950 Adventure, 2007 BMW K1200GT, 2005 Yamaha Vmax, 2005 Suzuki SV650S, 1991 Honda VFR750, 2004 Honda CRF250X, 2000 Buell Blast................
outlaws justice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 08:51 AM   #13
Vulfy
Studly Adventurer
 
Vulfy's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: NYC
Oddometer: 547
I might have emphasised knee down a bit too much, and I agree with you.
My main concern is that the field time was somewhat rushed and at times felt disjointed, while classroom time was a bit too relaxed and felt like it took more time than needed.

I understand that at the end of the day, school still needs to teach and present the material to all the students signed up, and there will be a bit of a conveyor approach, simply to get through everybody in the finite amount of hours.

I just wish we had more time on the field and the organisation would be a bit more snappier.

We did have a lot of people and the whole waddling back and forth between the lot and the classroom felt that it was eating up precious time. I honestly think that all lectures could have have been presented right there on the lot, with a lot less stories and personal anecdotes from the instructors.
__________________
www.moto-gym.com
Vulfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 09:36 AM   #14
Lorretto
City Dweller Crushperado
 
Lorretto's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Oddometer: 310
Is a class worth it - Yes.

I would encourage you to look into a class like the Total Control mentioned above. The class is sort of a stepping stone, way past the MSF doctrine but not about speed so not a track school.

The take away is building process that the bike and tires are engineered to go around corners far faster and tighter than prior conditioning has instilled in most of us. The school of hard knocks is a valid training environment; however, the essence of the trial and error method is that error will show it's ugly head now and then with a predicable outcome. A class gives you a safe controlled environment to push past a comfort zone to work on where the limits are and hopefully leave with all the parts you came with intact; the bike too.
Lorretto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 11:36 AM   #15
Jim Moore
Beastly Adventurer
 
Jim Moore's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Jax, FL
Oddometer: 12,612
Go to a Keith Code school. Rent one of thier S1000 RRs. It's absolutely appalling. In a good way.
__________________
Jim Moore
Jax, FL

Pay the lady, PirateJohn, you thieving piece of garbage.
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=949341
Jim Moore is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 07:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014