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Old 04-29-2014, 05:39 AM   #91
Paebr332
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Originally Posted by Mat View Post
That is BS. Following that logic, it is immoral to drive with a passenger. You could communicate, and that is clearly not safe.

But driving a car alone is immoral as it is a waste of energy compared to car pooling or public transport. You are endangering the lives of literally billions by causing the atmosphere to heat up. Tsk tsk.

Don't go the moral route. Stay with facts, and facts are that operating a glass-screen mobile phone that requires you to not only hold it, operate it, but also look at it for every operation (because there are no keys) is a whole different league than merely talking. I accept that it is somewhat easier to talk to a person that is right there with you - after all this person can adjust to your common surroundings and is easier to understand usually - but just talking on the phone hands-free, come on.


Holding a phone to your ear, on the other hand, is a different matter again. It restricts your movements and takes away yet another part of concentration on motoric skills.

Almost every time I see someone do something erratic or stupid on North American roads, there is a phone on their ears or in their hands. Sometimes new laws and restricting some freedoms is better for everyone.
If you are all about FACTS, then you should be aware that the current state of scientific study finds that hands-free phones are no safer than holding the phone in your hand. It is the cognitive energy required by the phone conversation/text communication that causes your brain to focus on that and not on the actual control of the vehicle.

On a note of interest to the course of this thread, a recent University of Utah study found that people who rate themselves very good at multitasking are worse at it than those who rate themselves poorly at multitasking. The Dunning-Kruger effect strikes again.
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Old 04-29-2014, 05:55 AM   #92
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MeinMoterrad has posed, "They can be safely used by those who manage the risks properly," and I believe him to be correct.
Wow. Not me. I'm the opposite argument - these things should not be used by the driver/rider of a vehicle.

Here's a link to some pics of idiots.

Facebook, Instagram etc. should really get a campaign going to discourage the using their services whilst driving.
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Old 04-29-2014, 06:19 AM   #93
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Texting driver causes own death

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Originally Posted by MeinMotorrad View Post
Wow. Not me. I'm the opposite argument - these things should not be used by the driver/rider of a vehicle.

Here's a link to some pics of idiots.

Facebook, Instagram etc. should really get a campaign going to discourage the using their services whilst driving.

1000 pardons, sir! I made a mistake and have corrected it. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

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Old 04-29-2014, 06:39 AM   #94
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What I don't understand is why insurance companies pay out when they have evidence that use of cell phone or texting is involved during an accident. Seems like an ideal way for them to get out of paying claims and "maximizing stockholders equity".
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Old 04-29-2014, 07:09 AM   #95
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What I don't understand is why insurance companies pay out when they have evidence that use of cell phone or texting is involved during an accident. Seems like an ideal way for them to get out of paying claims and "maximizing stockholders equity".
If the policy doesn't exclude it, they can't deny it. Give them time and they might. There are logistics though, like how do you prove it wasn't being used as a hands-free on a Bluetooth car or if the person has a headset? Maybe the passenger was using it.

Nothing is ever as simple as it seems.
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Old 04-29-2014, 08:11 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by wiseblood View Post
They have "hands free" phones for making calls, but how do you "hands free" text?
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You can send a text message through Siri if I am not mistaken.
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Are many people doing that?
I've done it. Not that tough. One button press to get the phone's attention and the rest is automated, if you don't need to make corrections.

That having been said, it is still distracting to interact with a gadget that way and I can only do it at stoplights or in mindless stop-and-go traffic.

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Seems to me the police need to first enforce them so the judges can.
Dunno about where you are but here, the cellphone tickets are a huge revenue maker in spite of the fact that just one such ticket now earns you more than 40% of the points required to lose your driving privileges. In NYC where one would think folks would need to pay more attention to the road than anywhere else, cellphone tickets make up more than 10% of all moving violations. And if you stroll into traffic court, likely more than half the people there will be attempting to fight cellphone tickets. Nearly 100% will lose that fight.

The momentum and the arrogance is just fucking staggering.

The real problem is that driver licensing in this country is a global joke.

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Texting seems to draw all the rage, and as someone who drives on the average of at least 200 miles a day, I share everyone's disdain for texters who can't seem to maintain control of their car. It's but one of many distractions or potential distractions that place people in danger.

My belief, based on having ridden with hundreds of people over the years and having observed thousands more, is that we ALL allow ourselves to engage in potentially distracting behaviors. There are people who have killed others whil fiddle fucking with radio buttons. There are those who have killed others while trying to squirt ketchup on fries. There are those who have killed others while taking in the beautiful scenery around them. There are those who have killed others while thinking about the argument that they had with their wife before work. There are those who have killed others while being overly focused on their 6. There are those who have killed others while trying to operate the dash controls of unfamiliar vehicles.

We ALL allow distractions or risks if you will. The question is how do we manage those distractions or risks? If you become overly focused on any distraction, it can become dangerous or deadly. Most of us do a pretty good job of maintaining control and situational awareness while allowing distractions. I loathe those who don't whether it's texting, sightseeing or daydreaming that's the distractor.
Fairly objective, generally true, but somewhat ignorant, in that something like texting is far more distracting than just about anything you've mentioned.

The big difference in today's terms is in the attention being paid to the issue. There have always been many distractions but none have ever received the publicity that cellphones and texting have received. And yet it continues in unbelievable proportions.

And so I am in the ranks of people celebrating this woman's death. There are many who say that she didn't have to die. I disagree. She is now a martyr, even if for a cause that was not her own. And if it was a matter of choice, of her death versus the death of another innocent motorist, motorcycle rider, bicyclist, pedestrian, whatever, I choose her.
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Old 04-29-2014, 09:57 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Rectaltronics View Post


Dunno about where you are but here, the cellphone tickets are a huge revenue maker in spite of the fact that just one such ticket now earns you more than 40% of the points required to lose your driving privileges. In NYC where one would think folks would need to pay more attention to the road than anywhere else, cellphone tickets make up more than 10% of all moving violations. And if you stroll into traffic court, likely more than half the people there will be attempting to fight cellphone tickets. Nearly 100% will lose that fight.

The momentum and the arrogance is just fucking staggering.

The real problem is that driver licensing in this country is a global joke.
I have heard that about NYC, but it seems the only place that takes it seriously. Same law in DC is generally ignored, even by city bus and cab drivers. Certainly in NOVA it is ignored. Hell, it is not even a primary offense, and does not carry points with the fine.
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Old 04-29-2014, 10:07 AM   #98
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I have heard that about NYC, but it seems the only place that takes it seriously. Same law in DC is generally ignored, even by city bus and cab drivers. Certainly in NOVA it is ignored. Hell, it is not even a primary offense, and does not carry points with the fine.
Interesting thing is, if you were to watch the behavior of drivers, you'd think we didn't enforce the law at all. Only reason I know we enforce is because the stats are published and because I've seen the defendants plead their cases in traffic court, then land on the cashier line.

My brother in law got two of those tickets so far. One under the old law (3 points I think it was) and one under the new law (5 points). Each time I said:



People just don't fucking get it. Seriously, not even asking them to stop fucking with the phone, just to use a headset, and they can't even pull that off. Unfuckingbelievable.
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Old 04-29-2014, 10:44 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Rectaltronics View Post
People just don't fucking get it. Seriously, not even asking them to stop fucking with the phone, just to use a headset, and they can't even pull that off. Unfuckingbelievable.


"But I've only crashed twice so far!"

The most surprising part to me isn't how many people text while they drive, but is how many never drive without texting.

Maybe I should get some stickers with a cellular inside the red slashed circle and tag everyone I see doing it. When we're stopped of course.
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Old 04-29-2014, 12:32 PM   #100
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"But I've only crashed twice so far!"

The most surprising part to me isn't how many people text while they drive, but is how many never drive without texting.

Maybe I should get some stickers with a cellular inside the red slashed circle and tag everyone I see doing it. When we're stopped of course.
That would be funny.
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Old 04-29-2014, 12:33 PM   #101
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"But I've only crashed twice so far!"

The most surprising part to me isn't how many people text while they drive, but is how many never drive without texting.

Maybe I should get some stickers with a cellular inside the red slashed circle and tag everyone I see doing it. When we're stopped of course.
How about these?
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Old 04-29-2014, 01:24 PM   #102
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How about these?
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Old 04-29-2014, 03:26 PM   #103
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How about these?
I want one of those, but with a drumstick from KFC.
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Old 04-29-2014, 03:41 PM   #104
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Old 04-29-2014, 07:35 PM   #105
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Another preventable death. And while personal responsibility is not lost on me, The maker of the phone and service provider should be held responsible. Why? Because the technology exists to disable manual texting when the phone is moving. Simple solution, virtually no cost to do so. Thousands of lives to be saved.
You bring up a good point. Service providers and their lobbyists in DC are keen to keep people using their products, so our politicians will not vote for any laws to change the vehicle or electronic device. Once some families of victims sue the shit out of Verizon, Sprint, Virgin..etc.. for failing to prevent use while driving. Until that multimillion dollar precedent is handed down, they will have no motivation to install the technology.

I am surprised that we can have in dash "infotainment" systems as OEM, and the gov is allowing them. Seems you should have your eyes on the road, not tapping a touchscreen through 7 menus to adjust the climate control.
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