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Old 05-18-2014, 01:49 PM   #16
longhaul747 OP
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Took around for some errands this afternoon. My Zuma did not miss a beat. I almost want to say the case is closed and the ECU reset corrected the problem but I have a feeling it will happen again at some point. With a week left on warranty unless I opt for the extended warranty I am kind of hosed unless it just magically goes back to not wanting to start in the next week and I can get it into the shop.

One thing mentioned is I was going to inspect the thermal switch and connection this weekend but flat ran out of time. Its probably okay anyway as the ECU would need to communicate with this part for proper start mixture and temperature.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:52 PM   #17
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This is interesting. I had an appointment setup for yesterday just in case the problem was still there. I stopped by yesterday and told them that so far its not doing it and I tried every scenario I can think of and it did not miss a beat.

Today I get a call from the service writer at my dealership I do a lot of business with. They have a Majesty in the service bay (very new) with the exact same problem. So they called Yamaha today for that scoot and they mentioned mine as well. In both cases it turns out to be a bad fuel pump. Yamaha is almost 100% it is and apparently they have a TSB on some recent model year Yamaha products with fuel pump problems.

So without ever needing to stop in and have the dealer officially diagnose the problem they were authorized to order a new fuel pump and replace it under warranty. So my Zuma is going in for a new fuel pump when they get it in next week sometime.

Apparently its very likely the problem will come back when it gets very hot outside and humid. I still think its odd that the ECU reset fixed it on that very same hot and humid day but that is what Yamaha is saying. What I want to do is get the fuel pump replaced and have it documented and then if it ends up being something else perhaps I can get the real problem fixed under warranty if it is indeed something else. It does sound like the classic Yamaha fuel pump issue haunting many other Yamaha products though.
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Old 05-22-2014, 10:35 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longhaul747 View Post
This is interesting. I had an appointment setup for yesterday just in case the problem was still there. I stopped by yesterday and told them that so far its not doing it and I tried every scenario I can think of and it did not miss a beat.

Today I get a call from the service writer at my dealership I do a lot of business with. They have a Majesty in the service bay (very new) with the exact same problem. So they called Yamaha today for that scoot and they mentioned mine as well. In both cases it turns out to be a bad fuel pump. Yamaha is almost 100% it is and apparently they have a TSB on some recent model year Yamaha products with fuel pump problems.

So without ever needing to stop in and have the dealer officially diagnose the problem they were authorized to order a new fuel pump and replace it under warranty. So my Zuma is going in for a new fuel pump when they get it in next week sometime.

Apparently its very likely the problem will come back when it gets very hot outside and humid. I still think its odd that the ECU reset fixed it on that very same hot and humid day but that is what Yamaha is saying. What I want to do is get the fuel pump replaced and have it documented and then if it ends up being something else perhaps I can get the real problem fixed under warranty if it is indeed something else. It does sound like the classic Yamaha fuel pump issue haunting many other Yamaha products though.
Great that they are doing that, but I wonder if the new pump is any better than the old one. Also if your's is a 2013, then my 2012 probably has a bad fuel pump as well. Maybe I should call the dealer and ask.
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Old 05-22-2014, 10:58 AM   #19
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Great that they are doing that, but I wonder if the new pump is any better than the old one. Also if your's is a 2013, then my 2012 probably has a bad fuel pump as well. Maybe I should call the dealer and ask.
Yeah I was wondering about the new pump myself being any better. I guess if they are replacing it for free I have to go that route first. Apparently this is the 3rd fuel pump revision the Zuma has had. Sounds like Yamaha needs to work with its fuel pump supplier.
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Old 05-22-2014, 10:48 PM   #20
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Yeah I was wondering about the new pump myself being any better. I guess if they are replacing it for free I have to go that route first. Apparently this is the 3rd fuel pump revision the Zuma has had. Sounds like Yamaha needs to work with its fuel pump supplier.
I have not actually seen a Zuma 125 fuel pump, but I would almost bet it is not designed for ethanol gas. They probably don't have that crap in Japan or Taiwan. I would sure like to get a look at a failed one to see what happened. Ethanol softens plastic and causes it to deform.
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Old 05-22-2014, 11:41 PM   #21
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I have not actually seen a Zuma 125 fuel pump, but I would almost bet it is not designed for ethanol gas. They probably don't have that crap in Japan or Taiwan. I would sure like to get a look at a failed one to see what happened. Ethanol softens plastic and causes it to deform.
If it is anything like the issue with the fuel pumps in the Aprilia SR50 series it is just in the cap where there is a tension fit from the cap terminals to the motor terminals. Two male blades that lean against each other which under certain conditions eventually separate and the pump dies.
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Old 05-23-2014, 04:07 AM   #22
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All I've seen shows the problem limited to the 2008/2009 models for which a recall was issued:
http://wemakeitsafer.com/vehicle-rec...Recall-9217184

It sounds very similar to the Vespa fuel pump issue which was a tolerance issue. Letting the pump cool down allowed it to work again.

Hope you guys don't have an issue with the 2012/2013 models as well....
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Old 05-23-2014, 01:07 PM   #23
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I guess a new TSB was issued March of 2013 stating that some owners of Zuma 125 (all years and likely some other bikes as well) may experience starting issues in hot and humid weather. Dealers are authorized to order a new fuel pump and replace it no questions asked. Some people who have 09's that had the fuel pump replaced under recall have had to have them replaced again. This is simply a TSB that does a good will replacement of a bum fuel pump in or out of warranty. It may fall under the emissions warranty witch is actually federally mandated to be much longer. Maybe 10 years or something like that. This is not a new recall just simply an issue that is dealt with as they occur on bikes.

I guess the problem is some part inside the fuel pump expands in hot weather and it does not allow the system to pressurize even though the fuel pump is working.

Still seems odd that I was having a problem that very hot and humid day and resetting the ECU fixed it. Even the other day it was just as hot and humid it did not miss a beat. So I am still somewhat hesitant its the fuel pump but I will let them replace it since its a known problem on this bike and go from there.
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Old 05-23-2014, 09:01 PM   #24
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Jerry, I have had the original fuel pump from my scooter in my hand, and had it apart. The problem has nothing to do with ethanol, or any other fuel. It's a clearance issue between the impeller and the pump housing. Please quit talking out of your anus.

When the first 2009's had trouble we were told the replacement pumps were of a new design, yet they had the same part number (no revision number). My replacement pump failed the next summer (same symptoms; pump failure when hot, ran fine below 90F ambient), which is why I replaced it with an aftermarket pump from a different supplier. I hope that Yamaha remedies the problem in a more permanant fashion then they did in 2010.
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Old 06-06-2014, 03:30 PM   #25
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I had the replacement pump changed out this morning. It took the shop about an hour and a half to replace but I think a lot of that was paper work. Scoot runs fine with the new pump and I don't notice any difference other then the new pump sounds a bit more course.

Interestingly the problem I was originally having has not returned since the ECU reset. So I am kind of thinking nothing was wrong with my original fuel pump but Yamaha insisted it was and wanted to replace it. The repair ticket is still open just in case the problem returns and it was not the fuel pump.

One thing is even though the weather has been nice the past few weeks it has not gotten extremely warm. Maybe low 70's with a hint of low 80's on a few days. The acid test will be 90F + and lots of humidity.

Hopefully if it was in fact the fuel pump the latest design will cure the starting issue. Seems kind of odd that such a simple and benign part is giving Yamaha and is customers such grief.
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Old 06-06-2014, 07:40 PM   #26
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The Zuma ECU is a simple beast. the only thing the reset does is make the ECU clear values for the oxygen sensor and temp sensor. The fuel maps are fixed, so there is no "re-learning" that occurs. I tried resetting mine a dozen times before replacing the fuel pump the first time.

I do hope the new pump is better for you. If that one craps out I'd be looking at a aftermarket pump, and asking Yamaha (nicely) to pay for a portion of it (never hurts to ask).
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Old 06-10-2014, 12:59 PM   #27
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Those pics of deposits in a Carb don't prove ethanol issues. I've seen carbs with deposits like that long before we had ethanol in fuel.
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Old 07-14-2014, 10:50 PM   #28
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So far no more issues with the fuel pump and it has been pretty hot and humid.

However a new issue came up yesterday that is making me go hmm!

Started it in the morning and it turned over just fine and fired right up. Road for about 10 miles checking on my folks place while they are out of town. Got back on the Zuma about 15 minutes later. It turned over with authority for about 2 seconds and then the starter stopped spinning the motor for a second then it spun slowly and fired up.

I kind of thought that was odd and my first thought was. Is the battery going bad? Its only 14 months old and has been tendered when not in use.

Thinking it was just an anomaly I parked it for the day without much further thought. This morning it did the same thing and again when I left work. It turns over just fine and then its as if the starter does not have the power to turn over but eventually it finds away and it starts.

So my first guess is the original battery even though its only 14 months old and well cared for is starting to go.

Other less likely possibilities is the starter is weak or some issue with the compression release if it actually has one.

Its also possible that the battery is still good but is of minimum spec and now that its slightly aged it has a bit of a hard time providing the necessary cranking amps but will continue to operate this way for some time (perhaps years) before one day it just can't turn it over any longer.

I think I am going to live with it a bit and see how things progress. If it becomes a bit more of a problem I may replace the battery hoping its just that. If its something else I am a bit more lost on what it could be.

I do welcome comments from other Zuma 125 owners if they have experienced something similar.

Oh I did check the battery terminals for cleanliness and tightness. Both clean and tight so it was not that.
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Old 07-15-2014, 12:20 AM   #29
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Is it a sealed battery? If not, check water level. Does sound battery related if it cranks quickly and then goes difficult. Or something somehow spiking your compression.

Checked oil level to make sure fuel is not bypassing fuel system?
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Old 07-15-2014, 05:16 AM   #30
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A helpful video on testing scooter battery:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bw3ikMEGh74

Incidently, your symtoms are exactly the same as my BMW when the battery finally gave up the ghost, although since it was 7 years old I didn't have much to complain about....
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