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Old 07-17-2014, 04:49 AM   #1
Sidecar Jockey OP
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Bluhduh Trail 90 wont turn over: help please!

I recently got a 1969 trail 90. The bike is all original and complete, other than missing the air box.

I bought the bike cheap ($150 for the bike plus a extra frame and 2 huge boxes of spare parts) because it didn't run. It had been sitting in a garage for 3 years and not moved or started. The gas tank was drained but it had oil in it.

The kicker slipped really badly, to the point where there was no resistance on it at all. I could easily push it all the way through by hand. I took the clutch out to clean and inspect the discs and they look brand new. I put it back together and adjusted it. No more clutch slip!

BUT... now I find that the motor is seized. Damn.

I can stand on the kick pedal (I weigh ~155 lbs) and it wont budge. If I come down on the pedal HARD, it can get the pedal to move but the motor doesnt turn. I assume I'm forcing the clutch to slip?? Is this normal? What's going on here, am I damaging something else by forcing the kicker down and the motor doesnt turn?

I tried to turn the motor over with the bolt that holds the stator to the crank... but its a pretty little bolt and I dont want to snap it off. No go here.

Lastly, I tried to bump the bike to break it free... but no matter what gear I'm in it feels like neutral. I assume this is because of the auto clutch?? It feels like it shifts into N-1-2-3-4 just fine, but the back wheel turns freely in each gear. Is this normal? Is it possible to bump start a CT90? Is it supposed to 'free wheel' in every gear until you have it running and give it gas to engage the clutch?

Thanks in advance for your help, I'm new to the CT and auto clutches!

PS: Maybe this should go in 'battle scooters' or 'some assembly required'?? If mods feel like this is in the wrong place, feel free to move it.
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Old 07-17-2014, 05:04 AM   #2
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If I can't get the motor un-stuck I would like to buy a new cylinder and piston. (there isn;t a good small engine / machine shop in my area that charges reasonable prices) I can do any head work myself.

Is this a decent kit:
http://www.scooterpartsexpress.com/c...110cc-ct70-pit

It seems too cheap to be good, but then again small motor parts usually are cheap. Also, by my calculation a 52mm piston would amke it ~98cc with the stocl 45.6 mm stroke... NOT 110cc as they advertise. What's with that?
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Old 07-17-2014, 06:49 AM   #3
hugemoth
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You'll find a lot more information on the CT over at http://hondatrailcts.yuku.com/directory
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Old 07-17-2014, 09:18 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by hugemoth View Post
You'll find a lot more information on the CT over at http://hondatrailcts.yuku.com/directory
Over the last week or so, I have been spending a LOT of time on that site. I just joined today, so that I could ask my question. Thanks!
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Old 07-17-2014, 11:22 AM   #5
MacNoob
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dratv.com has tons of parts for these things
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Old 07-17-2014, 01:37 PM   #6
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Most CT90 owners have experienced those symptoms. Cheap stuff to try first:

The "neutral in every gear" sounds just like you have the Hi/Lo transfer lever in between the two positions. While turning the rear wheel slowly, move the lever (at bottom transfer case that surrounds the front of the drive chain) either forward (low) or toward the rear (hi). With luck, this will give you a gear.

You say your engine is stuck? If it has been sitting a long time, try putting some penetrating oil in through the spark plug hole, and rolling down a hill in 4th gear to try and get it to turn. If no go, then you may have to open her up.

Good luck. CT90s are lots of fun once they run!
Larry
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Old 07-17-2014, 01:41 PM   #7
Foot dragger
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I was injured badly enough,and often enough,on Trail-90's as a youth that I see only carnage and pain when I look at one now.

Who knew they werent supposed to be jumped 20' into creekbeds?
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Old 07-17-2014, 03:34 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redblk63 View Post
Most CT90 owners have experienced those symptoms. Cheap stuff to try first:

The "neutral in every gear" sounds just like you have the Hi/Lo transfer lever in between the two positions. While turning the rear wheel slowly, move the lever (at bottom transfer case that surrounds the front of the drive chain) either forward (low) or toward the rear (hi). With luck, this will give you a gear.

You say your engine is stuck? If it has been sitting a long time, try putting some penetrating oil in through the spark plug hole, and rolling down a hill in 4th gear to try and get it to turn. If no go, then you may have to open her up.

Good luck. CT90s are lots of fun once they run!
Larry
According to what I have read on various CT websites, it is normal for them to 'freewheel' in every gear with the motor off. I guess this makes sense, since the centrifugal clutch would be disengaged...

I tried it in both high and low. When shifting the range selector I slowly rotated the rear wheel and felt a nice 'clunk' so I think it engaged. The rear wheel still spins freely though. Is there any way to check for sure if my range selector is actually engaged?

How about bump starting? I guess you have to get them rolling fast enough to engage the clutch before letting off of the shift lever to pop it into gear??
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:13 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidecar Jockey View Post
According to what I have read on various CT websites, it is normal for them to 'freewheel' in every gear with the motor off. I guess this makes sense, since the centrifugal clutch would be disengaged...

I tried it in both high and low. When shifting the range selector I slowly rotated the rear wheel and felt a nice 'clunk' so I think it engaged. The rear wheel still spins freely though. Is there any way to check for sure if my range selector is actually engaged?

How about bump starting? I guess you have to get them rolling fast enough to engage the clutch before letting off of the shift lever to pop it into gear??

Not sure what you mean by freewheel but ct90s are just like any other bike as far as rolling/not rolling while in gear. The only difference is than when you press down on the shift lever disengages the clutch and changes the gear and when you let up on the shift lever it re engages the clutch.

To Bump start a CT you hold the gear shifter while pushing the bike and once up to speed you let up on the shifter.
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Old 07-18-2014, 05:16 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redprimo View Post
Not sure what you mean by freewheel but ct90s are just like any other bike as far as rolling/not rolling while in gear. The only difference is than when you press down on the shift lever disengages the clutch and changes the gear and when you let up on the shift lever it re engages the clutch.

To Bump start a CT you hold the gear shifter while pushing the bike and once up to speed you let up on the shifter.
Thanks for the info. I think I have a problem then...

My bike seems to click into every gear, but I'm able to spin the back wheel with the bike on the centerstand and the motor off in every gear.

From what you're saying, if the bike is in gear (not neutral) the back wheel should be engaged with the motor, and not spin freely? Mine isnt like that... I can easily spin the back wheel without turning the motor in any gear.
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Old 07-18-2014, 11:33 AM   #11
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Update:

I figured out my gear issue. The lo/hi range box was in between. When spinning the back wheel, it shifts into 'high' just fine and I can click it through all 4 gears. I know they shift because I can't turn the back wheel any more. Good!


More BAD news:

The 'low' range wont engage at all. If i hold the lever forward to shift into 'low' and spin the back wheel, I can feel a ratchet like little click in both the wheel and shift lever. Is there some special technique to get it to shift? What do you think is the problem wit the 'low' range?

No wonder the guy wanted to dump this bike for $150.... everything is broken!!!
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Old 07-18-2014, 01:29 PM   #12
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Don't fret! $150 for a 1969 trail 90 is a nice price, I too just picked one up (yellow) last weekend for the same price. My motor has verrry low compression though, but it's fixable. Between bikebandit, dratv & the fleabay, parts are dirt cheap for these.

As for your low range, mine clicks the same sound/feel as into high, no rachet clicking sounds/feel. Worst case is to just get a lifan 125 kit in it and go boondocking! (I may go this route too). Goodluck with your revival! Pics of the little 90?
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Old 07-18-2014, 05:03 PM   #13
redprimo
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To get it to shift into low sometimes its easier with the engine running and in gear, then you give a tiny bit of gas as you move the hi/lo selector and let of the gas as it goes in. in your case try putting out in gear and roll the bike a bit as you move the hi/lo selector..
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Old 07-20-2014, 05:51 PM   #14
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Take the stator cover off and trying turning over witha socket and a rachet. No move motor could be locked up. I've help a buddy who restore small honda's. I can get a CT90 motor into split cases in 45-60 minutes while taking photo's.
You need 2 tools one to remove the stator. I can't rememer if a 12, or 13 or 14 mmmbolt will work. There is a tool for removing the clutch. Beatrice sells the tool , it makes life much easier. The are two screws on the clutch hub, try to not strip them when you try to remove them.
Sometimes you need to gas the throttle a touch an let off to go from high to low. If the oil is so congealed and crudded up, it can prevent the clutch from "locking up"
I've owned 2 ct 90's. They are just a hoot.
Bike will not run without a battery.

Good Luck,
Les
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Old 07-21-2014, 04:53 AM   #15
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I put the bike in grer and rolled it around while trying to shift into low. All it does is make the ratcheting click. 'High' works fine though.

No-go with turning the motor over with the stator nut or with a strap wrench around the clutch hub. The motor is locked.

So...

I bought a used 1970 CT90 motor off of craigslist for $40. It turns over and feels like it has compression. It also clicks into every gear and into high/low. I'm going to swap motors this weekend. I think my 'new' used motor should be easier to get running than my locked up one. Even if this one is a dud too, I should be able to make one good motor out of the two. Plus for $40, it was worth a shot... that seemed really cheap.
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