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Old 07-26-2014, 09:57 AM   #1
Twotaildog OP
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Powerplus or Bust, Eh?

I've been posting this story on the AMCA forum, I've decided to also post it here. It may take me a few days to get caught up with it, but here's a link to the AMCA post if you're in a hurry: http://www.antiquemotorcycle.org/bbo...lus-or-Bust-Eh. In a nutshell, I have this 1916 Indian. I'm working towards having it ready to enter in the 2016 Cannonball, if they have one. I want to ride it across the country when it's 100 years old. It's a fairly aggressive schedule. I know that some Cannonball bikes have been heavily modified. I plan to keep the bike as original as I can, but I will have to use repop parts for some things that are missing or worn out. This isn't a full restoration, in that I'm not going to paint the tinwork and frame, partly because I don't have time and partly because I like the look of the old barn paint that someone applied with a brush years ago. I'm not going to do anything to the bike that would prevent it from being fully restored after the Cannonball. The thread begins with a bunch of pre-build stuff, and I'm just now getting to the build part. Please feel free to weigh in if you have an opinion, something to say, or especially if you know anything about old Indians. I appreciate any and all input.

I'd been looking for a bike with cannonball potential, that I can afford, for I think about 3 years now. A few months ago this Kijiji ad showed up cross-posted on the AdvRider forum, in one of the sidecar threads:



I swapped a few emails with the guy. He sent me a bunch of pictures, and we settled on a price. I told him I wouldn't be able to pick it up for a month or so because of work, he said no problem, and he didn't even want a deposit to hold it. My kind of guy. I finally got a week off, a hard thing to do during the spring outage season, so I hitch the trailer up to Clifford the Big Red Dodge, called my side-kick Paul (local Pawn Shop Owner/Operator) to help with the driving, and headed north. Cory lives in British Columbia and I live in Nebraska, so we're about 1500 miles apart, for a 3,000 mile round trip. Oh well, at least I would get to visit my daughter in Fargo/Moorhead.

My biggest worry was bringing it back across the border in to the USA. I did some internet research and found that a vehicle that is at least 21 years old doesn't have to meet the EPA requirements, and if it's at least 25 years old it doesn't have to meet the DOT requirements. No problem, this one's 98 years old. Here's a good link: https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/det...r-personal-use

The one potential problem was that everything I read said that I had to have proof of ownership in the form of a title and registration, and the old injun had neither. I decided that I needed to talk to a real live person, so I started calling border stations. We all know how hard it is to get a real person when calling a government phone number, but persistence pays off and I managed to get through to Border Officer at two stations, the big one at Roosville, Montana, and a tiny one at Whitlash, Montana. The nice lady at Whitlash was very helpful, she said that a bill of sale should be fine if there's no title, and she explained that I might have to fill out some DOT and EPA forms but it shouldn't be a problem because the bike is so old. Cool. Just what I wanted to hear. The she said "but you're not crossing here are you?" I said that yes, I probably would. She said "oh, I don't think you want to cross here, we're way out on a gravel road!" I said that's no problem, I live on a gravel road. "Yes, but we're a long way from anything. You'll want to cross at one of the big border stations at Roosville or Sweetwater, so you should call them too." OK, well, crossing at Roosville would save me some time, so I called them up, and battled my way through the phone menus again.The kid at Roosville really didn't want to talk to me, wouldn't give me a straight answer, and was rude and evasive in the typical fashion of his generation. He said I would need proof of ownership and he didn't think a bill of sale would qualify. Fine. Thanks for your time. I decided to cross at Whitalsh no matter how long it took.

So Paul and I set out in Clifford the Big Red Dodge. We spent a night with my daughter and her husband and the next night in a run-down (cheap) motel in Havre, MT. On the way to Havre, Clifford rolled over 250,000 miles, so it is officially broken in:



I think Paul was a little surprised that I picked that little roach mote in Havre, but I don't like to spend too much money just for a place to sleep. When the wife is along it's a different story, off course. Here's a picture of Paul pointing out that the broken shutters had been repaired with toilet paper:



It didn't bother me a bit. By the way, Havre has an interesting network of tunnels under it that the bootleggers built during the prohibition. You can get a tour.

We decided to cross into Canada at the Widhorse Station, since it's on a paved road and has such a cool name. We got up early and were second in line for the Wildhorse crossing before they opened:





And then we were in Canada.



More to come.

Kevin

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1916 Indian Powerplus - future Cannonball prospect
1964 Triumph TR6 - 50 year ISDT Tribute
1969 BMW R60US
KTM 640 ADV - Guzzi Centauro - Husky TE510 - other stuff
...sweet dreams and fine machines in pieces on the ground...

Twotaildog screwed with this post 07-26-2014 at 05:44 PM
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Old 07-26-2014, 10:11 AM   #2
Twotaildog OP
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Cory, the bike, locked and loaded.

Paul had never been to Banff, so we went up around and over the mountains. We ran into a little of this:





but nothing too serious. It made for fabulous scenery:







And then there we were:




So the only thing left to do was do the deal (Cory on the left, yours-truly on the right):




drink a toast:




and load up:






That's the sidecar wrapped in packing blankets. The engine had been disassembled the parts are in baskets, I mean boxes, in the back of the cab, where they will be more secure.

Stay tuned, more to come.

Kevin

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__________________
1916 Indian Powerplus - future Cannonball prospect
1964 Triumph TR6 - 50 year ISDT Tribute
1969 BMW R60US
KTM 640 ADV - Guzzi Centauro - Husky TE510 - other stuff
...sweet dreams and fine machines in pieces on the ground...
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Old 07-26-2014, 10:54 AM   #3
Twotaildog OP
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Border crossing, 60 mph winds, Mules

So it was off to Whitlash, to bring the old gal into the US of A. I was pretty sure that they were going to ask me why I drove past the two largest border crossings between Canada and Montana, to go to the second smallest border crossing between Canada and Montana. My plan was to tell them the truth; that it was because of the nice lady on the phone.

Here is a picture of the Whitlash Port of Entry:




The lady was right, it was way out on a gravel road. According to the internet, less than three people a day cross at Whitlash. I think we may have woke the guy up, because it took him a while to respond after I pushed the button. He listened to my story and, as I predicted, asked me why I came to Whitlash rather than Roosville or Sweetwater. I told him about the nice lady on the phone at Whitlash and the rude kid at Roosville. He must know that nice lady because he believed me. He looked our stuff over, chatted with us a while, and sent us on our way. Nice guy. All told, it only took about 20 minutes.

The gravel road got worse on the US side. It took us over two hours to go 60 miles. The route was not well marked, and even the GPS lady in my phone got confused a couple of times. Here is my favorite sign:




On the way home we almost lost the top of the trailer in some 60 mph crosswinds across Montana. Luckily my son-in-law had some plywood and screws and we were able to make repairs at their house:




We topped it off that night with Moscow Mules with my daughter and son-in-law:




and were home the next day.

My plan now is to repair this bike into a cannonball machine. I want have it ready for 2016 when it is 100 years old. I'll continue to document the build on this thread.

I've been working on motorcycles since 1970, when I was 11 years old, but the oldest one up to now has been (only) 50 years old. This project will not be without it's challenges. It won't be a restoration, more of a repair. I do need some parts. For example it was missing the transmission, but I since have found one. I made some great contacts at the AMCA Wauseon meet and I found a lot of parts. I also plan to be at Davenport on Labor Day weekend. In the near future, I'll post a list of parts I need, and if you have any leads you can be my best friend.


Stay tuned.

Kevin

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__________________
1916 Indian Powerplus - future Cannonball prospect
1964 Triumph TR6 - 50 year ISDT Tribute
1969 BMW R60US
KTM 640 ADV - Guzzi Centauro - Husky TE510 - other stuff
...sweet dreams and fine machines in pieces on the ground...
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Old 07-27-2014, 11:19 AM   #4
shearboy2004
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This is very cool , watching !
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Old 07-28-2014, 08:36 AM   #5
Twotaildog OP
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What I Started With - The Chassis

I wanted to post some pictures of the bike as I got it - to document the starting point. I'll start with the frame & wheels. These were taken just before I got it:






















Next - the engine.

Kevin

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__________________
1916 Indian Powerplus - future Cannonball prospect
1964 Triumph TR6 - 50 year ISDT Tribute
1969 BMW R60US
KTM 640 ADV - Guzzi Centauro - Husky TE510 - other stuff
...sweet dreams and fine machines in pieces on the ground...
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Old 07-28-2014, 08:40 AM   #6
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The Engine

These are some of the pictures that Cory took as he disassembled to engine:


















That's how the engine was when I got it. There is one stuck lifter and one stuck gear on the crankshaft. We carefully labelled everything, boxed it with styrofoam and bubble wrap, and loaded it in the cab of the truck.

Kevin

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__________________
1916 Indian Powerplus - future Cannonball prospect
1964 Triumph TR6 - 50 year ISDT Tribute
1969 BMW R60US
KTM 640 ADV - Guzzi Centauro - Husky TE510 - other stuff
...sweet dreams and fine machines in pieces on the ground...

Twotaildog screwed with this post 07-28-2014 at 08:54 AM
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Old 07-28-2014, 08:50 AM   #7
Twotaildog OP
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The sidecar - as I got it

Again, pictures as I got it - for your viewing pleasure. This time, the sidecar. I probably won't get around to working on that part until 2017 or so, as I don't need it for the Cannonball.


















So that's a pretty good summary of what I'm starting with. The bike is now up on the rack in my basement shop, where it will be nice and warm this winter. I've been taking stock of what parts I'll need, and spending a lot of time locating replacements and/or material to make replacements. I'll post some information on that next.

Kevin

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__________________
1916 Indian Powerplus - future Cannonball prospect
1964 Triumph TR6 - 50 year ISDT Tribute
1969 BMW R60US
KTM 640 ADV - Guzzi Centauro - Husky TE510 - other stuff
...sweet dreams and fine machines in pieces on the ground...
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Old 07-28-2014, 04:38 PM   #8
eldomike
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Great start....the engine looks amazing for its age...will bw watching your progress for sure...
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Old 07-29-2014, 06:44 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldomike View Post
Great start....the engine looks amazing for its age...will bw watching your progress for sure...
That's what I thought Mike. Hard to believe it's almost 100 years old.

Kevin

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__________________
1916 Indian Powerplus - future Cannonball prospect
1964 Triumph TR6 - 50 year ISDT Tribute
1969 BMW R60US
KTM 640 ADV - Guzzi Centauro - Husky TE510 - other stuff
...sweet dreams and fine machines in pieces on the ground...
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Old 07-29-2014, 07:15 AM   #10
Twotaildog OP
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It was good to get the old girl up on the rack in my little basement shop:





Here's the other side:






I started off by making a list of parts I need. The handlebar controls seemed like a good place to start. I'm always fascinated by the linkage arrangements that control the throttle and timing advance. No cables. There is a sleeve on each handlebar that turns a flexible shaft inside the handlebar. The flexible shaft consists of a long steel rod and several universal joints that pass through the bar, negotiate the curve of the bar, and exit near the steering neck. A linkage rod connects that to small levers that pivot on the steering neck, another rod connects those levers to other levers that pivot on the frame downtube, and still another rod connects them to the carb and magneto. You'll see what I mean.

The right side (timing advance) twist sleeve and flexible shaft were missing:





The left side (throttle) twist sleeve and flex shaft are there, but are pretty worn:




This is where the flex shaft exits the handlebar:





I'm missing the upper mag control lever and pivot spacer on the right side of the steering neck:





And I'm missing the upper throttle control lever on the left side of the steering neck, but I do have the throttle control pivot spacer:





Of course, I also need the rods and clevises that go from the handle bar flexible shafts to the control levers on the neck.

The next pivot point is on the front downtube, in front of the engine. A rod, which I don't have, goes from the lever on the right side of the steering neck to the lever on the right side of the downtube. The lever on the right side of the down tube is clamped to the shaft that goes through the frame lug, and there should be another lever clamped to the shaft on the left side that then connects to another rod (also missing) that goes down to the magneto. This picture shows the frame lug and the right side lever that is clamped to the shaft:





On the left side of the down tube there is a lever that pivot's free on the shaft. I need the rod & clevises that go from the lever on the left side of the steering neck to this lever, and then from this lever to the carburetor:





I got repop replacement parts for most of this stuff at the Wauseon meet from Ziggy Kapuscinski. One exception is the link that goes to the Schebler carb, which I'll probably have to fabricate.



Kevn

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__________________
1916 Indian Powerplus - future Cannonball prospect
1964 Triumph TR6 - 50 year ISDT Tribute
1969 BMW R60US
KTM 640 ADV - Guzzi Centauro - Husky TE510 - other stuff
...sweet dreams and fine machines in pieces on the ground...
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Old 07-29-2014, 12:09 PM   #11
MayerMR
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Fantastic, I'll be following this closely!

Can you tell me what kind of lift that is? I love the thin profile!

-Matt
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Old 07-29-2014, 12:28 PM   #12
Twotaildog OP
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They sell them on eBay, Matt. Not heavy duty, nor top quality, but it was the only one I could find that was narrow enough for my little shop, and it seems to work OK. Here's a link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1000-LB-Hydr..._Tools&vxp=mtr

Kevin

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__________________
1916 Indian Powerplus - future Cannonball prospect
1964 Triumph TR6 - 50 year ISDT Tribute
1969 BMW R60US
KTM 640 ADV - Guzzi Centauro - Husky TE510 - other stuff
...sweet dreams and fine machines in pieces on the ground...
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Old 07-29-2014, 08:23 PM   #13
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The Tinwork

The gas tank looks pretty good, other than the paint of course. Someone repainted the whole thing at some point, probably with good old lead barn paint. There are glimpses of what appears to be original paint in a few places, but I think it's mostly gone. In this first shot you can see that one of the threaded mounting holes is pulled out, and the seam just to the right of that hole is split and will need to be re-soldered.





Here is the other side. The priming injector and shut off valve are there. I'll need mounting straps and I only have one mounting screw, but it appears to be original.






Here's a close-up of the split seam:






The rear part of the front fender doesn't have the skirts on the sides of it. The 1916 Indian Parts Catalog shows the front fender as skirted, all one item. I'm not sure if it they were originally stamped out of one piece of steel, or made from three pieces. Any insights on this would be appreciated. My fender looks very much like the fender on the 1913 Indian Twin in the Anamosa, IA Museum. I'm not sure if my fender has been modified, or replaced with an earlier fender, or if they installed an earlier fender right out of the factory due to a special request or something. I may never know. Here's a pic:







Here's what a 98 year old leather mudflap looks like. I think I can save it.






The rear fender appears serviceable.








Kevin

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__________________
1916 Indian Powerplus - future Cannonball prospect
1964 Triumph TR6 - 50 year ISDT Tribute
1969 BMW R60US
KTM 640 ADV - Guzzi Centauro - Husky TE510 - other stuff
...sweet dreams and fine machines in pieces on the ground...
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Old 07-29-2014, 08:44 PM   #14
Twotaildog OP
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Mid-Ohio and Wauseon

I went to both the AMA Vintage Meet at Mid-Ohio and the AMCA meet at Wauseon, Ohio to look for parts. I couldn't have asked for better weather. Mid-Ohio didn't turn up any old Indian parts, but it turned out to be quite relaxing. I got to camp out in my camper:





And drink beer with interesting people:






And ride my motorsickle:





with my GPS :






As expected, Wauseon was better for finding Indian parts, old and repop. And again, the weather was great. I got most of the parts I need for the hand brake and foot brake (I had none of the brake parts, not even the hub or drum) and nearly all of the parts I needed for the handlebar controls. I found most of the parts I need for the clutch pedal and hand clutch controls. I found a spare carb, a kick-start arm, a spare slider gear for the transmission, chain guards, and a few other things. The biggest benefit though, was the contacts that I made.


I also got to watch old motorcycles race:








Jay Springsteen and Joe Roeder did some exhibition laps:





Kevin

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__________________
1916 Indian Powerplus - future Cannonball prospect
1964 Triumph TR6 - 50 year ISDT Tribute
1969 BMW R60US
KTM 640 ADV - Guzzi Centauro - Husky TE510 - other stuff
...sweet dreams and fine machines in pieces on the ground...
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Old 07-29-2014, 09:02 PM   #15
Twotaildog OP
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Now lets talk about wheels. It would have originally had a brake drum on the right side of the rear wheel. There was a brake hub with an expanding internal shoe that was operated by your right foot, and an external band on the same drum that was operated by your left hand. As you can see, my bike had none of that:



I was able to get repops of most of those brake parts at Wauseon, from Ziggy Kapuscinski.




Someone had fitted a skip-link chain and sprocket to the rear wheel, I don't know why. These were used on bicycles in the day, and also on motorbikes with pedals:






I'll probably replace the tires:









Everything seems to be in order with the front wheel, other than a few bent and broken spokes.








I have a spare rear wheel too. Someone attached solid rubber to it in place of the pneumatic tire. You gotta love the spoke repairs:






This project reminds me of years ago when I decided that I wanted to have my own airplane. I went to the local general aviation airport and they told me to go home and start flushing hundred dollar bills down the toilet. They said when I got used to that, and it didn't bother me anymore, come on back, I was ready to have an airplane.


Kevin

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__________________
1916 Indian Powerplus - future Cannonball prospect
1964 Triumph TR6 - 50 year ISDT Tribute
1969 BMW R60US
KTM 640 ADV - Guzzi Centauro - Husky TE510 - other stuff
...sweet dreams and fine machines in pieces on the ground...
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